Thoughts on supplements?

[Lisa Gonzalez-Turner]

I’m launching my company, holier, in April and wanted to share information with everyone! holier was founded on the premise that living vegan should be fun and easy. We’re here to create simplified products that help you live your best vegan life.

Our first product addresses a common problem that people who live a vegan lifestyle struggle with - supplements!

We worked with nutritionists and doctors to comb through thousands of studies on vegan diets to determine the exact nutrients we need to live well.

That’s how we came up with the Multi for Vegans - a simplified multivitamin with 10 essential vitamins and minerals that vegans typically don't get enough of from their diets.

I’d love to invite you to be the first to know when we launch. Sign-up at www.holierlife.com.

What do you think are the most important supplements? Do you take any? I'd love to hear!

 

[Lou]

What do you think are the most important supplements? Do you take any? I'd love to hear!

I'm concerned about omega 3s. That is the only supplement I take anymore. I get my B12 with soymilk.

 

[Bob Who]

I take about B12 daily, and D3 mostly just to cover my bases. I'll tell you the main reason I shy away from supplements is, what it says on the label doesn't have to be what is actually in the product. I want to know and be able to verify that what a manufacturer says is on the label is true, including the dosage and purity of the products . I also want to be able to verify that the production is routinely monitored to ensure this adheared to. The current state of things in the US regarding the regulation of supplements is nonexistent and reminds me of the time of late 19th & early 20th century--snake oil patent medicines. If your product is going to live up to those standards I wish you the best of sucsess.

 

[Slonaut]

Only spirulina. But I don't consider it a supplement. It's essentially dried nano seaweed ground into a powder or pressed into tablets.

 

[TofuRobot]

I only take the supplements my Dr is currently recommending - B12, & vit D (or 10 mins of sun every day, whenever possible).

 

[Olychka]

Very nice Lisa. B12 deficiency is very common for vegan people. They need B12 supplements. You have done a great job. It will help vegan to have their daily requirement of vitamin B12. For working people B12 deficiency creates lots of problem, like tiredness, weakness etc.

 

[TofuRobot]

Very nice Lisa. B12 deficiency is very common for vegan people. They need B12 supplements. You have done a great job. It will help vegan to have their daily requirement of vitamin B12. For working people B12 deficiency creates lots of problem, like tiredness, weakness etc.

"They need..."?
"They" need whatever they are deficient in, and the best way to determine that is via a blood test. But B12 isn't a "they [vegans]" issue. If 40% of the population is B12 deficient, and only a very small percentage of the population is vegan, clearly it isn't just a "they" issue.
https://www.livekindly.co/b12-deficiency-genetic-makeup/

 

[PapaJack]

If you eat a whole plant base food you only need B12 once in awhile. No other supplements are needed.

 

[Lou]

I used to take a multivitamin just as cheap insurance. But my last blood test showed no deficiencies so I quit taking it (and i'm still having second thoughts about that).
I take an Omega supplement and add ground flax seed to my oatmeal.
And i drink two glasses of soy milk that is fortified with B12 (and some other stuff).

According to cronometer, I'm doing great on my "good days". And i don't plug my meals in on my bad days.

 

[TofuRobot]

If you eat a whole plant base food you only need B12 once in awhile. No other supplements are needed.

This is really not sound advise, as depending on the person, one may not be getting enough usable Omega 3. I was taking B12 "once in a while" and that was not enough for me. I ended up with enough of a deficiency to need a coupe of weeks of injections and a dr telling me to take it (and a B complex) every day.

 

[Lou]

This is really not sound advise, as depending on the person, one may not be getting enough usable Omega 3. I was taking B12 "once in a while" and that was not enough for me. I ended up with enough of a deficiency to need a coupe of weeks of injections and a dr telling me to take it (and a B complex) every day.

I agree with TR. Although Omega 3 is still sort of newish, the most common advice is for vegans to supplement. We can supplement naturally with flaxseed. but that is only ALA. And although our bodies do convert ALA to DHA and EPA, it can be too slow and there are other issues. So even Flaxseed may not be enough.

The thing I learned about B12 this year is that only like 30 or 40% of the RDA can be absorbed at once. After that amount, only like 1% of the B12 gets thru. Although taking a massive dose of something like 10,000% every day, or taking 100,000% every week, the very best strategy is just to take small doses 2 - 4 times a day.

There is a really good youtube videos by Dr. Gregar and Dr. Fuhrman that explain it clearly. Let me see if I can find it.

Fuhrman's
Gregar's

One of the YouTube commentators posted this. I didn't do the math - but it looks about right
Dr. Greger’s B12 Dosage Recommendations:
•One weekly dosage of 2500 mcg cyanocobalamin B12
•One daily dosage of 250 mcg cyanocobalamin B12
•2000 mcg methylcobalamin B12 per day

Jack Norris and Ginny Messina's B12 Dosage Recommendations:
•One weekly dosage of 2000 mcg cyanocobalamin B12
•Two weekly dosages of 1000 mcg cyanocobalamin B12
•Two daily dosages of 2-3.5 mcg cyanocobalamin
•One daily dosage of 25-100 mcg cyanocobalamin
•1000-2000 mcg methylcobalamin daily

 

[Lou]

I stopped taking a multi shortly after my last checkup. And I have been totally relying on two glasses of soy milk a day for B12.

Last week I bought some new-fangled product by Silk. An almond and cashew blend with 10 grams of protein. It gets its extra protein from pea protein. It tastes pretty good. It also has twice the calories of plain soy milk. But I just discovered they didn't put any B12 in it. It does have D and calcium. but c'mon guys.

 

[TofuRobot]

@Lou - I was in denial about B12 until I started watching Dr. Greger's videos - and learned what it is, where it come from, and why we need it (and until my doctor broke out the needle, LOL).

I have read somewhere on the interwebs that some people are against pea protein - do you happen to know why?

 

[Lou]

@Lou - I was in denial about B12 until I started watching Dr. Greger's videos - and learned what it is, where it come from, and why we need it (and until my doctor broke out the needle, LOL).

I have read somewhere on the interwebs that some people are against pea protein - do you happen to know why?

I hadn't heard that. but of course, when they first came out with Pea milk in the store I bought it. I did not like the taste. So that was it for me.

Fortunately, I like (or don't mind) the taste of soy milk. and don't drink it plain that often anyway. But then there are some people on the interwebs think soy milk causes thyroid cancer*. So who knows.

* it doesn't.

 

[Blissful]

Hi everyone , l have been a vegan for 42 years ... So please trust me on this - you really need to ensure you have B12 often .
Personally , l do not drink soy milk ( oat milk instead) so l have an under-the-tongue spray which l do most days , at least two sprays . This keeps me in the healthy range for B12 ..
A lack of B12 not only makes you "tired and weak" , it can actually cause serious( and potentially permanent) nerve -malfunctions , if the deficiency is bad enough . Years ago , when l believed l could get it from some vegan foods , l became so deficient in it , l actually had a burning ember land on my hand and couldn't feel it .! I was getting tingling sensations around my mouth , and other symptoms too .
So , unless you are absolutely sure the product you are eating is fortified with enough of it , then it would be a good idea to supplement .

I suspect that centuries ago , we could get B12 from food grown in good , nutrient-rich soil , and so being vegan then would have been fine re getting what is required . These days , our global soil is so deficient from farming practices , there is very little nutrients in it ..

Also , everyone , please keep in mind , if you are consuming lots of soy products , you are consuming lots of GMO .. Most soy is genetically modified these days - and don't believe the hype about it being harmless .. When humans "modify" foods, it's a good idea to be cynical about the effects ..

Best wishes to all , from Blissful x

 

[Lou]

Hi everyone , l have been a vegan for 42 years ... So please trust me on this - you really need to ensure you have B12 often .
Personally , l do not drink soy milk ( oat milk instead) so l have an under-the-tongue spray which l do most days , at least two sprays . This keeps me in the healthy range for B12 ..
A lack of B12 not only makes you "tired and weak" , it can actually cause serious( and potentially permanent) nerve -malfunctions , if the deficiency is bad enough . Years ago , when l believed l could get it from some vegan foods , l became so deficient in it , l actually had a burning ember land on my hand and couldn't feel it .! I was getting tingling sensations around my mouth , and other symptoms too .
So , unless you are absolutely sure the product you are eating is fortified with enough of it , then it would be a good idea to supplement .

I suspect that centuries ago , we could get B12 from food grown in good , nutrient-rich soil , and so being vegan then would have been fine re getting what is required . These days , our global soil is so deficient from farming practices , there is very little nutrients in it ..

Also , everyone , please keep in mind , if you are consuming lots of soy products , you are consuming lots of GMO .. Most soy is genetically modified these days - and don't believe the hype about it being harmless .. When humans "modify" foods, it's a good idea to be cynical about the effects ..

Best wishes to all , from Blissful x

Good stuff.
Just a couple of small corrections.
The theory that vegans could get B12 from food grown in nutrient-rich soil is pretty much debunked. It is true that the bacteria that produce B12 live in soil. but the veggies grown in it don't absorb it. you would have to be eating the soil itself. and I"m not sure that would work.

I eat lots of soy. Several servings a day. soy milk twice a day and tofu a few times a week. But all my Soy is not GMO. Here in California, anything labeled organic HAS to be Non-GMO. That might be true in other states and countries too. But I am sure it's true here. And almost all the tofu and soymilk in the grocery store is organic. (In my supermarket, there is one cheap Chinese brand of tofu that isn't organic)

Just something i found out that I thought was interesting. We do have b12 producing bacteria in our guts. but the bacteria live in our large intestines. But the site for B12 absorption is in our small intestine. Scientists think that our early ancestors (hundreds of millions of years ago) had the ability to absorb B12 in the large intestines. But as meat became part of our diet, that ability was no longer necessary and we lost it. This is just a theory. We can't examine the soft tissue of million-year-old fossils.

I thought maybe Gorilla physiology might give us a clue on this. but it turns out gorillas and chimps are just like us. They absorb B12 in their small intestines, too. they get their B12 by eating bugs. Turns out they love termites. The other animal that has this problem are the rabbits. they have solved it by eating their poop. If gorillas and chimps don't get enough bugs in their diets they will resort to eating their poop, too.
http://gorillaprotein.com/2010/01/07/where-do-gorillas-get-their-vitamin-b12/

 

[Nekodaiden]

At close to the year mark I had blood tests done. I wasn't deficient in anything, including B12. I only supplemented for about a month (about halfway through that year), and other than that just eat fortified Vegemite on occasion. A poster here named rogerjolly mentioned un or de chlorinated water in a B12 thread I started, so I decided to research it and now de-chlorinate all of my drinking water.

I do not think I would be vegan if I believed it was inherently deficient and unsuitable without lots of supplements. One of the initial reasons I became vegan was because I became convinced it was the most (not least) natural and healthful way to nourish my body. In this, I have not been disappointed and I think supplements (aside from B12) may be suitable more for people who eat more junky vegan type food and/or for people who may need to address a specific (and possibly overlooked) nutritional issue.

 

[Blissful]

Hi Lou - thanks for that ... you know your stuff .. also , it's great that you can access non-GMO soy . . Here in Australia , we are pushing for declaration on labels for GMO food .. Some companies declare voluntarily , or tell you it's GMO free , so that's a start .
Nekodaiden - hi , l believe a vegan diet is actually natural for humans , and is only deficient if we eat junk , as you say . B12 is the only deficiency l've ever had in 42 years , so l believe what Lou says about the gut - so if we were living all that time ago , a vegan diet would be perfect , nutritionally ..
I notice there is blame if l get some medical issue , but l very quickly point out how many non-vegans have the same issue .

Mental attitudes can be hard to change .!

Have a wonderful day everyone ... xx

 

[Tomas]

Being vegan my whole life and having my blood tested every year I have noticed, certainly with ageing, that certain vitamins tend to run a bit low but not alarmingly so. Mostly vit A, D and B12.
The Vit. D is probably because of the weather here. I get tested in November most of the time and by then days are short and the amount of sunshine I actually get is pretty low.
So I do take a bit of Vit. but not much.

 

[Blissful]

Hi Tomas , we live in Tasmania , high up a mountain where winters are long, and vitamin D can be an issue here too .. I take vegan vitamin D , as being a woman of a certain age , it's important to maintain bone-health as l age .. Vitamin A has never been a problem as l eat lots of carrots , pumpkin , etc .. ( Pumpkin curry - yum)

Vegan your whole life ? Lucky you - you must have had vegan parents then ..

Sending you blessings and a big hug xx