Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Reaction score
0
Location
East of England
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
Recently I've been in phases where don't buy anything to eat at all and am in one such phase now. If anything causes more harm to animals than another food, then I want to eat the food that causes the least harm. The thing is I don't know what food does cause the least harm. I had figured at least that potatoes would be more ethical to eat than any food derived from grain because I know that lots of animals live on grain and so a greater number of them would be killed over the time covering preparing the land for planting/seeding to the food reaching the consumer, with the greatest numbers of 'higher' animals killed during harvest of grain/graincrops and in protecting harvested grain/graincrops during storage. But then I came to the dilemma of whether it would be most vegan to eat organic or non-organic potatoes, and whether there was food that would be more ethical to consume (cause less harm) than potatoes. And now once again I'm at amiss as to what to do, and now that all my unreturnable food has run out I am not eating or buying anything presently until I can decide the best course of action.
 

Emma JC

Senior
Joined
Jun 15, 2017
Reaction score
3,439
Location
Canada
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
This is only my opinion but I feel that stressing over which plant food to eat is something that is not helpful to anyone including the animals.

I am sure there are plant foods that are healthier than others and you can work that out over time. The healthiest plants are the plants that you will eat as not eating at all will not keep you healthy enough to help the animals or the environment or others as that is not a good example to set.

I wrote a couple of articles about this for my website:
http://cooljoy.com/which_potato_which_bean_is_best_the_potato_bean_you_will_eat.html
There is one there for rice and for pasta and I just watched Dr Greger's latest video on what is the best way to eat cabbage and kale and his conclusion was the same as mine. The best way is the way that will have you eating the most of these healthy vegetables.

Stressing like this can lead to eating disorders and so you may need to ask for some professional help from a plant based health practitioner.

Good luck, Emma JC
 
  • Like
Reactions: Veganite

Veganite

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 30, 2017
Reaction score
1,291
Location
Vancouver, BC
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
I agree with Emma JC, wholeheartedly. While I do understand what you're trying to achieve, I just feel that it defeats the other reasons for being vegan...mainly your good health.

I believe that by simply being vegan, you are already doing far more to alleviate animal cruelty and suffering than your average non-vegan. You are also doing far more to help our environment by just being vegan. I would also point out that grain crops grown for human consumption are usually different from the GMO grain crops raised for animal feed.


*
 
  • Like
Reactions: Emma JC
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Reaction score
1,017
Age
40
Lifestyle
  1. Vegetarian
By all means try to decide which is better out of potato, rice or beans but don't let it stop you eating anything! There is not much difference.

Whatever food is locally grown will likely have an edge on CO2 emissions, unless it is grown in a heated greenhouse out of season. So seasonal, local veg. Keep the long-haul air freighted stuff to a minimum. But just read what it says on the packets and if you can't tell just buy it and enjoy!

Make veganism is a joy. If you go around telling people you can't eat anything you will make veganism look very unattractive, deter others from doing vegan. If you just give up meat and eggs and maybe dairy and then eat what you like you will make veganism look attractive, and may inspire someone else even though you might never know it!

If you are feeling depressed please talk to a friend and see a psychologist. Mental health is very important and needs professional help just like physical/biological health.
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Reaction score
1,017
Age
40
Lifestyle
  1. Vegetarian
Also I assume you have already given up meat and maybe eggs and dairy. Congratulations for that!
 
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Reaction score
0
Location
East of England
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
This is only my opinion but I feel that stressing over which plant food to eat is something that is not helpful to anyone including the animals.

I am sure there are plant foods that are healthier than others and you can work that out over time. The healthiest plants are the plants that you will eat as not eating at all will not keep you healthy enough to help the animals or the environment or others as that is not a good example to set.

I wrote a couple of articles about this for my website:
http://cooljoy.com/which_potato_which_bean_is_best_the_potato_bean_you_will_eat.html
There is one there for rice and for pasta and I just watched Dr Greger's latest video on what is the best way to eat cabbage and kale and his conclusion was the same as mine. The best way is the way that will have you eating the most of these healthy vegetables.

Stressing like this can lead to eating disorders and so you may need to ask for some professional help from a plant based health practitioner.

Good luck, Emma JC

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I'm concerned which plant foods are healthier than others from.
 
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Reaction score
0
Location
East of England
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
I agree with Emma JC, wholeheartedly. While I do understand what you're trying to achieve, I just feel that it defeats the other reasons for being vegan...mainly your good health.

I believe that by simply being vegan, you are already doing far more to alleviate animal cruelty and suffering than your average non-vegan. You are also doing far more to help our environment by just being vegan. I would also point out that grain crops grown for human consumption are usually different from the GMO grain crops raised for animal feed.


*

Just causing less cruelty and suffering than the average person is not enough for me. For me being 'less worse' than other people is not the same as being right. And I want to feel satisfied that my dietary, purchasing, and all other choices I make are right. That I can justify them to myself. And right now I'm having trouble justifying buying anything my purchase of which results in greater harm and suffering than were I to buy something else.
 

Veganite

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 30, 2017
Reaction score
1,291
Location
Vancouver, BC
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
I am trying to understand how you feel here. I do beleive you have the best of intentions.

May I ask what your goals are as a vegan activist? I'm just curious what you hope to accomplish by limiting your own plant-based diet of grains or things you feel cause harm to animals? I just mean, what your whole purpose of being an ethical vegan is? Is your main mission with veganism to reduce animal suffering by your own hand or by anyone's?

Don't you think it would be better to focus our energy on good plant-based health, but helping animals and the planet by trying to bring more people to veganism? As a vegan, you are already doing so much more than your average. Doesn't it make more sense to focus on the things You can actually change, as apposed to things you can't?

I wonder if you refuse to handle the British 5 & 10 pound notes that recently included animal fat. Where do you draw the line?


*
 

Consistency

Practitioner
Banned
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
Reaction score
23
How does organic agriculture cause harm?

The point of organic food is so we don't poison ourselves with pesticides from conventional food.
 
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Reaction score
0
Location
East of England
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
I am trying to understand how you feel here. I do beleive you have the best of intentions.

May I ask what your goals are as a vegan activist? I'm just curious what you hope to accomplish by limiting your own plant-based diet of grains or things you feel cause harm to animals? I just mean, what your whole purpose of being an ethical vegan is? Is your main mission with veganism to reduce animal suffering by your own hand or by anyone's?

Don't you think it would be better to focus our energy on good plant-based health, but helping animals and the planet by trying to bring more people to veganism? As a vegan, you are already doing so much more than your average. Doesn't it make more sense to focus on the things You can actually change, as apposed to things you can't?

I wonder if you refuse to handle the British 5 & 10 pound notes that recently included animal fat. Where do you draw the line?


*

Everyone's. Of which I am a part of, so I am necessarily looking to reduce my own contribution to animal death and suffering.

I do try to encourage more people to be vegan. I can do that and eat (or rather not-eat, at the moment) how I feel I should.

I'm puzzled by the 'doesn't it make more sense to focus on the things you can actually change' bit. My own diet, purchasing choices and so on are the easiest things that I can change.

And no, I don't refuse to handle non-vegan banknotes. I don't see what impact would be had if I did, aside from minor nuisance to myself and the people I interact with.
 

Veganite

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 30, 2017
Reaction score
1,291
Location
Vancouver, BC
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
I didn't quite articulate exactly what I meant. I just meant that by jeopardizing your own health to accomplish your activism goals seemed a bit over the top. That is the choice we're talking about here, isn't it?

Do you really believe that by eliminating important vegan foods such a grains, this will help the vegan cause? Do you believe that all grains are promoting animal cruelty, and why? I'm trying to understand how you came to this conclusion.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be conscious of what you buy. You should be selective with everything, and research your purchases thoroughly. That isn't what I am struggling with. I'm struggling with the grain thing. I guess, as someone else pointed out, trying to buy locally would probably be best, ethically speaking.

Please don't take this in a defensive way...I'm just trying to wrap my head around your orignal post, where you implied that you feel that by eliminating important plant foods, such as grains, is sensible to the cause. I just somehow feel you might be taking this too far, like to the point where it could jeopardize your own health.

The goal with the bank notes was to send a message to the government that it isn't acceptable. There's been an ongoing petition to try to send a message to the government, but it would seem that it has failed so far.

https://www.change.org/p/bank-of-en...utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink



*
 
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Reaction score
0
Location
East of England
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan

Consistency

Practitioner
Banned
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
Reaction score
23
Because for one thing much organic-allowed fertiliser is in the form of animal products, such as those that appear in this list of some common organic fertilisers: https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/archives/parsons/earthkind/ekgarden8.html

Thanks for the enlightenment. Much needs to change so there is transparency however I am going to keep buying organic produce because we don't know for certain that all farms use animal by products as fertilizer and I'd rather not pay into a real corrupt industry of conventional food that doesn't care whether they poison me or not with pesticides.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Reaction score
0
Location
East of England
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
Thanks for the enlightenment. Much needs to change so there is transparency however I am going to keep buying organic produce because we don't know for certain that all farms use animal by products as fertilizer and I'd rather not pay into a real corrupt industry of conventional food that doesn't care whether they poison me or not with pesticides.

Why is it not bad enough knowing animal products such as blood meal, bone meal, fish meal, and horn and hoof meal are common organic fertilisers? How can taking the substantial risk of contributing to the demand for any of the aforementioned or other animal products be justified? And surely producers and manufacturers of non-organic food items are inclined to care whether they poison their consumers with pesticides just as restauranteurs are inclined to care whether they poison their consumers by their food being prepared in an unhygienic manner.
 

nobody

Practitioner
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Reaction score
187
Location
U.S.
You can eat anything that comes from a grocery store dumpster without harming wild animals. From what I understand, food is still supposed to be safe past the expiration date. I don't eat anything that is past the expiration date but would probably consider it if I were as concerned about wild animals as you, and if I weren't as lazy and self-centered, etc.

https://freegan.info/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeganism
 

Consistency

Practitioner
Banned
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
Reaction score
23
Why is it not bad enough knowing animal products such as blood meal, bone meal, fish meal, and horn and hoof meal are common organic fertilisers? How can taking the substantial risk of contributing to the demand for any of the aforementioned or other animal products be justified? And surely producers and manufacturers of non-organic food items are inclined to care whether they poison their consumers with pesticides just as restauranteurs are inclined to care whether they poison their consumers by their food being prepared in an unhygienic manner.

Are those by-products really causing a demand though?

I see animal by products the same as the fluoride added to drinking water. The real culprit are those who buy the meat directly.

Those of us who only eat plants are more sensitive to the pesticides and eating more non-organic plants would lead to a greater cumulative load of pesticides. The levels of pesticides deemed safe are for meat eaters as they barely eat any plants.

I feel that being extreme isn't the answer. Hopefully you'll find a middle ground.
 

veganDreama

Practitioner
Joined
May 30, 2018
Reaction score
191
Age
50
Location
Birmingham, England
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
I think it's great that you are so concerned about the welfare of all living animals but if it makes you ill like I'm sure it will do I don't think it will help animals or yourself.

I know how you feel though. At one stage I wanted to stop taking medicine because it had been tested on animals but had to give that up as it just made me ill.