Can eggs be vegan-friendly?

[Col]

Not regarding animals as products is as I said not anthropomorphic,
fertiliser does not need to come from birds.
In this portrayal of happy chickens where really where are the cockerels (roosters)? (as someone mentioned earlier in this post)
Voting animals is anthropomorphic but not what I said, I neither assume animals have the same ethics
or that humans should have the ethics of animals.

The human worry is humans shamelessly selling the product of the animals and also labelling it vegan-friendly instead of organic vegetarian.

 

[g0rph]

Not regarding animals as products is as I said not anthropomorphic,
fertiliser does not need to come from birds.
In this portrayal of happy chickens where really where are the cockerels (roosters)? (as someone mentioned earlier in this post)
Voting animals is anthropomorphic but not what I said, I neither assume animals have the same ethics
or that humans should have the ethics of animals.

The human worry is humans shamelessly selling the product of the animals and also labelling it vegan-friendly instead of organic vegetarian.

Obviously we don't need to regard them as "products".
We have a family dog (bought from a breeder) before I went vegan.
He isn't a product. He's a family member.


As for using chickens. They can actually test the sex of an egg. Obviously they should do that. Why they don't now is probably down to money.
And then, I wouldn't regard (the example above, of Gaz Oakley) them as "products" either. They live in a mutually beneficial way. But for people taking them into their gardens, they would be cat-food instead.

 

[deadknight]

I don't think eggs could ever be vegan-friendly, since being vegan means avoiding to exploit animals when it's possible to do so.

Even those happy backyard chickens who live on the countryside - and enjoy its bucolic charm - are exploited.
They are kept specifically for producing eggs, and this is exploitation. A hen is a bird and not an egg-making machine. And we don't actually need to eat eggs, so this exploitation is unnecessary.
This is why I cannot see any scenario where eggs could possibly be vegan-friendly.

 

[Graeme M]

I don't think eggs could ever be vegan-friendly, since being vegan means avoiding to exploit animals when it's possible to do so.

Even those happy backyard chickens who live on the countryside - and enjoy its bucolic charm - are exploited.
They are kept specifically for producing eggs, and this is exploitation. A hen is a bird and not an egg-making machine. And we don't actually need to eat eggs, so this exploitation is unnecessary.
This is why I cannot see any scenario where eggs could possibly be vegan-friendly.

I suppose I take a different view on exploitation. The meaning I take from it is "unfair use of another" . So I think there are contexts in which animal use is acceptable. I think well-cared for backyard chickens is one such. The downside is that buying the chickens in the first place could contribute to commercial breeding which would be unfair use.

 

[deadknight]

I suppose I take a different view on exploitation. The meaning I take from it is "unfair use of another" . So I think there are contexts in which animal use is acceptable. I think well-cared for backyard chickens is one such. The downside is that buying the chickens in the first place could contribute to commercial breeding which would be unfair use.

Very good to see you noticing how unfair commercial breeding is.
Doesn't it automatically mean that the whole procedure is unfair as it is - treating these birds like objects that can be sold?

What's your opinion about taking the eggs? The eggs would become their offsprings, assumed they are fertilized.
Producing eggs demands much of the hens' bodies (think of the calcium and proteins that's needed), and if you take an egg from a hen, she'll lay another... and another... and another... until her body is exhausted and cannot lay any more.

By the way, how can animal use be acceptable when we don't need it?

To be honest, the thought of how - and where - the egg comes out from the hen's body makes me gross out and I just don't want something like this. The egg shell might be stained with feces and potential Salmonella... no thanks.
Also, the yolk of an egg being an embryo... hey, as a vegan I signed up for not eating animals, no matter what stage of development they are in!

Hope this wasn't too offensive.

 

[silva]

I suppose I take a different view on exploitation. The meaning I take from it is "unfair use of another" . So I think there are contexts in which animal use is acceptable. I think well-cared for backyard chickens is one such. The downside is that buying the chickens in the first place could contribute to commercial breeding which would be unfair use.

I can appreciate your views, but humans are notorious for taking advantage of any situation. The only ones we try and protect are humans with disabilities, and do a lousy job at that
When economics are a factor there are many who would benefit from using animals. Just as there are those who require their children to work to keep their family housed and fed, of course animals would also be used to provide needs.
Keeping rescued hens and eating their eggs without that kind of need I still disapprove. They could be donated to food pantries or places that provide meals
Those with the means and abilities to do better should be expected to do better
Those with limited means do what they can
I would not call eggs, wool, nor milk vegan regardless of how ethically it is produced. I do make exceptions for those in need

 

[Sax]

Yolanda has her chickens as pets of a sort. She likes to breed heritage breed chickens. They live on her farm and simply wander around the place all day. They are allowed to breed naturally. Of course many are killed at end of life just as with say dogs. She ends up with a surplus of eggs because she doesnt eat all that are produced. Because it is not a commercial enterprise she gives away surplus eggs to friends and family.

She does kill excess roosters because they can be aggressive to others . They are then eaten. She regards this as more ethical than killing pest animals when growing crops which end up not being used and may even poison other animals.

You say like pets but what if she did that with cats or dogs...let them breed beyond capacity and then kill the "excess" ones. Is that any way to treat pets? That sounds more like an animal hoarder to me.

She's inflicting violence on animals to solve a problem that she is repeatedly creating. If she was doing this to any non-farm animal species we'd probably see it as cruel and deeply weird.

Accepting eggs from her signals that this is okay with you. I think it should be shunned as harmful, exploitative behavior because that's exactly what it is.

 

[KLS52]

I thought raising backyard hens meant the male chicks are culled? And not humanely?

I will never understand the need to justify calling oneself vegan while consuming animal products. I'm not saying one can't do it. It's not up to me to judge anyone. Eggs are not vegan. They come from an animal. Vegans don't eat animals or their byproducts.

Just to be clear, I don't equate raising chickens or accepting eggs from a neighbor's backyard chickens the same as someone who occasionally goes out to eat and makes a concession to have a veggie burger or bun that might have egg in it. While I don't call myself vegan it's fine if someone else does in this instance.

This may sound strict/judgmental to some but my opinions and rules are for myself only. I'm not about to make that decision for anyone else. But I do think it confuses the matter and the word vegan if someone is outwardly proclaiming to be vegan to others, while raising chickens and or eating backyard eggs. .

 

[Brian W]

I have soooo given up on labels!

 

[silva]

I have soooo given up on labels!

I don't care much for labels, but I do care about definitions.

 

[KLS52]

I have soooo given up on labels!

I hear you. It's why I don't use one for myself unless I'm questioning ingredients in something when I'm not eating at home.

 

[Brian W]

I don't care much for labels, but I do care about definitions.

Even definitions are rapidly changing, largely, but not entirely, thanks to the echo chambers on the internet.

 

[Brian W]

It is interesting how many vegans who insist that veganism is about animal rights and not food say that meat and eggs can never be vegan, no matter how ethically sourced, because they come from animals.

 

[deadknight]

It is interesting how many vegans who insist that veganism is about animal rights and not food say that meat and eggs can never be vegan, no matter how ethically sourced, because they come from animals.

This is exactly why we are saying so.
Animals do have the right not to be killed (before or after birth or hatching), not to be stolen from, not to be bred in captivity just to get killed or stolen from (and being killed thereafter).

The only thing I find the label"ethically sourced" good for is silencing one's conscience. "Oh yes, the animal was killed for my mundane pleasure but they lived a happy life".

 

[VeganRachel]

This is interesting. Here is a post from my farmer friend Yolanda who posed this question in our FB Farmers and Vegans discussion group.

"Can eggs be vegan friendly?
I think they can in an ethical sense. After all. Veganism is an ethical stance.
I believe my eggs do fall into the category of vegan friendly. I give most of my eggs away and I have ordered a stamp to go on my egg cartons to outline their status.

Why vegan friendly?:
* Heritage chickens: bloodlines dating back to the 1950's. No male chicks ever killed at birth. No excess egg laying that can be hard on a hen's body.
* Naturally bred: all chickens naturally mated and raised by broody hens.
* natural lifespan: hens stay on the farm for life.
* 100% pasture raised: there is no limit to where these chickens roam.
* organic: not necessarily a vegan thing. But they are.

The only thing that may be considered not vegan friendly is that excess roosters are culled for the protection of the hens. Too many roosters are harmful and stressful to a hen's health. However I don't see it as any less vegan than animals killed in the protection of crops. The difference being, their bodies are also utilised for food. Both human and dog food. They are grown out to adulthood, free ranging on pasture and dispatched quickly on farm.

I am currently experimenting with a method to reduce male chickens hatching. Regardless. There is only a small amount of chickens hatched each year since all hens stay for life and will continue to produce eggs. My oldest hens are 8 years old and still lay."

What do you think? I would say Yolanda's eggs are indeed vegan-friendly and my wife and I usually get several dozen every few months. They are delicious eggs.

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Thank you for sharing. It sounds like the chickens are 'well-taken care of'. But, eggs or dairy are not vegan.
What happens to the chickens when they stop laying eggs, and the person does not want to feed them as "pets"?.
Chickens normally live to 8-10 years old. What happens to the male layer chicks who cannot lay eggs?.
By the way, natural outdoor chickens will eat snakes, worms and other bugs, frogs, small rodents...etcetera.
Those ingredients go into the hens eggs. Yuck.
When the roosters are slaughtered to help the egg-layers, thats' not vegan.
AHIMSA, the first principle of yoga, means "harmlessness and non-violence". As far as i believe, that defines
what is vegan. With all chickens and cows, violence is inherent.
You can salivate over the eggs and call them delicious if you choose.,...I am 100% vegan.

 

[VeganRachel]

I thought raising backyard hens meant the male chicks are culled? And not humanely?

I will never understand the need to justify calling oneself vegan while consuming animal products. I'm not saying one can't do it. It's not up to me to judge anyone. Eggs are not vegan. They come from an animal. Vegans don't eat animals or their byproducts.

Just to be clear, I don't equate raising chickens or accepting eggs from a neighbor's backyard chickens the same as someone who occasionally goes out to eat and makes a concession to have a veggie burger or bun that might have egg in it. While I don't call myself vegan it's fine if someone else does in this instance.

This may sound strict/judgmental to some but my opinions and rules are for myself only. I'm not about to make that decision for anyone else. But I do think it confuses the matter and the word vegan if someone is outwardly proclaiming to be vegan to others, while raising chickens and or eating backyard eggs. .

Absolutely. The definition of vegan is clear, not 'flexible'. If someone wants to eat eggs or dairy or both, they are VEGETARIAN.

 

[VeganRachel]

It's a shame there isn't a word to describe people who believe that animals and what they make is not for people to steal, or profit from.

I get that eggs, wool, even milk, can be ethically sourced, but why the insistence on calling it vegan? Like a whole camp that wants to bolster the vegan population by changing the definition.

Yes, there are humans who want to water down the definition. WHY?. I find it strange. Call yourself vegetarian, they
eat eggs or dairy or both!.

 

[Brian W]

Absolutely. The definition of vegan is clear, not 'flexible'. If someone wants to eat eggs or dairy or both, they are VEGETARIAN.

I agree with that definition but then I believe vegan is a food term not an animal rights term. If vegan is an animal rights term, then what is wrong with calling yourself vegan if your source of eggs didn't involve causing animal suffering? In their idealism and vegan purity people have completely missed my point and continue to hold inconsistent definitions. Either it is an animal rights term or it is a food term - make your minds up and stop being hypocrites!

 

[deadknight]

I agree with that definition but then I believe vegan is a food term not an animal rights term. If vegan is an animal rights term, then what is wrong with calling yourself vegan if your source of eggs didn't involve causing animal suffering? In their idealism and vegan purity people have completely missed my point and continue to hold inconsistent definitions. Either it is an animal rights term or it is a food term - make your minds up and stop being hypocrites!

How can you be totally sure about your source of eggs not involving animal suffering? Do you not think an animal feels bad if her eggs are taken away from her? Do you not think it's bad for the hens to exhaust their bodies by laying eggs (which humans steal from them)?

Otherwise, I wonder if you googled up the definition of veganism.

Veganism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Per definitionem: "Veganism is the practice of abstaining from the use of animal products—particularly in diet—and an associated philosophy that rejects the commodity status of animals."

 

[Sax]

If vegan is an animal rights term, then what is wrong with calling yourself vegan if your source of eggs didn't involve causing animal suffering?

Imagine someone being against child abuse but they enjoy AI generated images of child abuse because creating them didn't involve suffering.

Seeing animal's bodies and excretions as resources we can utilize is the foundation of all animal exploitation. Sure in thought experiments we can construct scenarios where animal products are produced without violating animal rights but in the real world the demand for those products will always be more efficiently and profitably met through cruel, exploitative methods.

Animal rights could never be secure as long as we normalize the idea that animal products are acceptable sources of pleasure.