US Politics-2022

[PTree15]

So far I don´t buy this argument that DeSantis is just as bad as Trump or worse.

DeSantis may be someone who is ideologically different to you but he isn´t someone who won´t respect democracy.

He won´t answer about whether Trump lost in 2020 which to me suggest he knows he did but just won´t say it for fear or losing support in the base. I think if DeSantis lose narrowly in 2024 he will likely accept it (I guess), whereas if Trump loses narrowly you may end up with some kind of civil war or mass riots or a series of assassinations of public officials.

DeSantis may just be fundamentally a conservative, but Trump is fundamentally a vengeful narcissist.

Trump has a huge long list of controversies in his life, and dumb and bad things he´s done, including being accussed of sex crimes/inappropriate behavour by at least more than 20 women for starters. De Santis doesn´t have anything like the same list of controversies (although of course he is younger and has come under less scrutiny).

I reckon the "De Santis is just as bad" argument is really just opposition to any conservative or Republican rather than based on a honest and fair assessment of the two.

And I think if you think that way you are too focused on the ideological struggles and not enough focused on the fact that the Republicans may continue to disrespect democracy and reduce the quality of democracy in the US. I think there are more fundamental risks with Trump.
....

(Bold emphasis mine). I disagree with this. While I may lean more to the left ideologically, today's Republican Party has too many members who disrespect democracy. The fact that anyone voted against certification of the 2020 presidential election is stunning in itself, not to mention the GOP-controlled states that have adopted laws to restrict voting access, all based on a lie that the election was stolen from Trump.

And because DeSantis wouldn't say what he thought about the 2020 election, that puts him in the camp with those who disrespect democracy. If he really respected democracy, he would speak the truth about the election. And I still think he might actually be worse because he's younger and has a lot more time to continue inflicting damage on Floridians and the rest of the U.S. people if he's ever elected president.

 

[Lou]

On Monday night Rachel Maddow was giving talking it over with an author ( can't rembember who it was now) but the point that she made that reverberated with me is that we are going through a time of shrinking liberties. After a long period of expanding liberties.

The over turning of Roe VS Wade was a part of that. Same with voting rights.

 

[KLS52]

(Bold emphasis mine). I disagree with this. While I may lean more to the left ideologically, today's Republican Party has too many members who disrespect democracy. The fact that anyone voted against certification of the 2020 presidential election is stunning in itself, not to mention the GOP-controlled states that have adopted laws to restrict voting access, all based on a lie that the election was stolen from Trump.

And because DeSantis wouldn't say what he thought about the 2020 election, that puts him in the camp with those who disrespect democracy. If he really respected democracy, he would speak the truth about the election. And I still think he might actually be worse because he's younger and has a lot more time to continue inflicting damage on Floridians and the rest of the U.S. people if he's ever elected president.

I also think DeSantis is smarter than Trump in general. At the very least, he has more experience with politics. I feel like that’s dangerous since he is, IMO, anti-democracy. Trump was “not smart”…he was shrewd and slick which I think a lot of people mistake for smartness. But you could/can tell that, every time he opens his mouth, that he isn’t “smart”. Again, IMO.

 

[Lou]

I think most Republicans are anti-democracy. The demographics are against them. They can't win in a fair election. So they cheat. I guess some of them don't actively cheat and just benefit from the unfairness built into the system. But maybe half are worse than that. About half are election deniers.

 

[Chryssie]

Ron DeSantis is very intelligent. He went to Yale, graduated with honors, then Harvard Law School, also graduated with honors. He is shrewd and clever. He is a lawyer with all the stereotypes that go with that profession! He is self-serving and egotistical and totally humorless. I can't stand him!

 

[Jamie in Chile]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1579788950696185859

Tulsi Gabbard had left the democratic party. In some ways I think some of her criticisms of the democrats are based on something valid but twisted into an exaggeration. Her video contains numerous statements about the democrats that seem unfair or even plainly false. It's a shame to see name recognition candidates going away from the democrats but if this is what she really thinks they are better off without her.

The video sounds more Republican than third party of centrist.

I think it's pretty ugly.

It's hard for me to see consistency between these beliefs - severe criticisms that go to the very heart of the democratic party - and going for the leadership of the democrats and 2020. Not much has changed since then. If she really feels this way now, it's hard to see as credible her attempt to get the Democratic Presidency in 2020.

 

[Sax]

I expect she'll have a lucrative career as a Fox News commentator.

 

[silva]

Tulsi Gabbard was a DINO all along. There was something in particular I disliked her for.......
From reading some comments on her I think many are mixing her with Marianne Williamson (where'd she go?)

I thought Ohio debate was cancelled both by DeWine for governor and TJ Vance, but appartantly vance and TIme Ryan did debate and Ryan did well. Just that time I had to run out! Ryans commercials are so badddddd

 

[VeganRob]

I vote Democrat every time. Not because I'm particularly enthralled with democrats, but I'm adamantly against republicans gaining the upper hand with their ***-backwards, medieval, anti-diversity concepts.

 

[beancounter]

I vote Democrat every time. Not because I'm particularly enthralled with democrats, but I'm adamantly against republicans gaining the upper hand with their ***-backwards, medieval, anti-diversity concepts.

Yea, that's pretty much how I feel.

 

[Lou]

The polling way too close. Now I'm starting to get worried. California is still solidly blue. but I worry about some of these other states.
I had been thinking that the Republican candidates were just so awful they would all lose. But the races still seem to be too close.
I was also hoping for some indictments by now.
Well we still have another January 6th hearing, tomorrow. maybe that will shake some stuff up

 

[Sax]

I've been really impressed with Biden's legislative accomplishments but I don't like his off the cuff foreign policy remarks. His talk of Armageddon and raising fears of Pakistan's nukes don't seem like things he should be ad libbing at private fundraisers. And now he's throwing Liz Truss under the bus....he's not wrong but knifing the leader of one of our closest allies when she's vulnerable isn't right and shows how loose lipped he is.

I appreciate his strong words on Taiwan, I just hope he's gotten to that position with a lot of wise advice not a gut feeling.

 

[PTree15]

I've been really impressed with Biden's legislative accomplishments but I don't like his off the cuff foreign policy remarks. His talk of Armageddon and raising fears of Pakistan's nukes don't seem like things he should be ad libbing at private fundraisers. And now he's throwing Liz Truss under the bus....he's not wrong but knifing the leader of one of our closest allies when she's vulnerable isn't right and shows how loose lipped he is.

I appreciate his strong words on Taiwan, I just hope he's gotten to that position with a lot of wise advice not a gut feeling.

Agreed. He has always been a little glib and free with the off-the-cuff comments.

 

[Lou]

I subscribe to three newletters, Calfifornia Today from the NYT and More Perfect from Vox. But lately I added a third. I don't always read all (or any) of them. but sometimes, during the day, its nice to take a few minutes off to just read something worthwhile.

My new addition is Letters From An American. This morning it was excellent so I thought I would share.

October 16, 2022

In an interview this morning with CNN’s Dana Bash, Arizona Republican nominee for governor Kari Lake refused to say that she would accept the results of the upcoming election-- unless she wins. Former president Trump said the same in 2020, and now more than half of the Republican nominees in the...

heathercoxrichardson.substack.com

 

[Jamie in Chile]

A very interesting podcast on De Santis from August that touches on some of the issues we have been discussing about him. Will definitely help you understand him better than just watching a few media clips and reading a few articles.

Dexter Filkins On DeSantis And Trump

How to think about Ron DeSantis? We decided to ask Dexter Filkins, who recently wrote a super-smart profile of the man for The New Yorker, which the Dish discussed at length. Dexter is an award-winning journalist best known for covering the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan for the New York Times...

andrewsullivan.substack.com

 

[Jamie in Chile]

Another good one for those of you that didn´t have time for the podcast:

Ron DeSantis is Donald Trump with brains and without the drama

If Florida’s governor is re-elected, he’s likely to challenge the ex-president’s hold on their party

www.ft.com

FT is often paywalled for me, but this one wasn´t when I clicked on it.

I accessed it via here, and it seemed to work

https://twitter.com/x/status/1583936967066021889

 

[Sax]

I wish we could get Ghandi's reaction to the news Britain is now led by an Indian man.

 

[Lou]

I would like to hear MLK's reaction to Kari Lake.
Did you hear this?

Lake chimed in, saying, “I’m a true believer that if M.L.K., Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., were alive today, if J.F.K. were alive today, if our founding fathers were alive today, they would be America First Republicans.”​

Opinion | Kari Ann Lake’s Hijacking of Martin Luther King (Published 2022)

Like Donald Trump, she is invoking the civil rights icon in self-serving ways.

www.nytimes.com

 

[PTree15]

I would like to hear MLK's reaction to Kari Lake.
Did you hear this?

Lake chimed in, saying, “I’m a true believer that if M.L.K., Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., were alive today, if J.F.K. were alive today, if our founding fathers were alive today, they would be America First Republicans.”​

Opinion | Kari Ann Lake’s Hijacking of Martin Luther King (Published 2022)

Like Donald Trump, she is invoking the civil rights icon in self-serving ways.

www.nytimes.com

She's so delusional.

 

[Lou]

She's so delusional.

As the Forum's eternal optimist, I think this kind of stuff should turn away so many people from voting from here.... but then this IS Arizona.