US How Did The US Become Obsessed-Protein?

[Lou]

And how much protein humans actually need.
​

I didn't want to start a brand new thread for this. But after doing a search for threads with protein in the tiltle I realized that almost all the protein related threads were members wondering where they could get more protein. That's almost the exact opposite of this article.

one of the things I have been telling new vegans for years is actually part of this article.

“Most of us, if we’re getting enough calories, [we’re] probably [getting] enough protein,” Cutting-Jones says.

Anyway tho there is little new to me in this article - I found the history/marketing part of it very interesting.
Not a vegan point of view, just good nutrition science.

The Inside Scoop on How America Became Obsessed With Protein

Protein — the one macronutrient yet to be demonized by the diet industry — is in a scientific and cultural gray area. How much protein do we actually need?

www.inverse.com

 

[LoreD]

The recommended amounts of protein, for my age group, don't seem to be much. 1/2 cup of beans, a couple of tablespoons of peanut butter, and a handful of nuts seem to cover my protein needs. I think that I get well over that amount including a protein drink, protein bar, or the soy milk in my coffee.

I think people, even vegans, have waaaay overestimated the amount of protein needed by the body. Excess protein (even vegan protein) is stored as fat, and can cause other serious health problems.

How Much Protein Should I Eat?

How much protein you need depends on several factors — including age, sex, health status and activity level.

www.eatright.org

Age Sex Daily Protein Recommendation
2-3 years Female and male 2-ounce equivalents
4-8 years Female and male 4-ounce equivalents
9-13 years Female and male 5-ounce equivalents
14-18 years Female 5-ounce equivalents
14-18 years Male 6½ ounce equivalents
19-30 years Female 5½ ounce equivalents
19-30 years Male 6½ ounce equivalents
31-50 years Female 5-ounce equivalents
31-50 years Male 6-ounce equivalents
51 years and older Female 5-ounce equivalents
51 years and older Male 5½ ounce equivalents

These recommendations for protein are provided in one-ounce equivalents. One-ounce equivalents of protein foods include:

• One ounce of cooked meat, poultry or fish
• ¼ cup cooked beans
• 1 egg
• 1 tablespoon peanut butter
• ½ ounce nuts or seeds

 

[silva]

From nutritionfacts.org---

Adults require no more than 0.8 or 0.9 grams of protein per healthy kilogram of body weight per day, which is about your ideal weight in pounds multiplied by four and then divided by ten. So, someone whose ideal weight is 100 pounds may require up to 40 grams of protein a day. On average, they probably only need about 30 daily grams of protein, which is 0.66 grams per kilogram, but we round it up to 0.8 or 0.9 grams because everyone’s different and we want to capture most of the bell curve.

For me its 56 grams. 3 servings of beans and such
How tiny are you @LoreD ? A half cup of cooked beans is only like 6 to 8 grams protein

It kinda worries me now that Dr Greger is making such a case on lowering protein requirements--because they actually haven't changed, at least not in the plant based movement. I wonder about his followers thinking they need even less

 

[LoreD]

From nutritionfacts.org---

For me its 56 grams. 3 servings of beans and such
How tiny are you @LoreD ? A half cup of cooked beans is only like 6 to 8 grams protein

It kinda worries me now that Dr Greger is making such a case on lowering protein requirements--because they actually haven't changed, at least not in the plant based movement. I wonder about his followers thinking they need even less

51 years and older Female 5-ounce equivalents

I am a fairly sedentary 5 ft 70 year old woman.

According to the miniumum recommendations I should have a minimum 5 oz. of protein

1/2 cup of beans = 2 oz protein

2 Tb. peanut butter = 2 oz protein

1 handful of nuts = 1 oz protein.

I, most of the time, get more protein from adding soy milk to my coffee, protein powder, and soy milk, to my smoothies, protein sources like tofu, etc. Usually, I can finish off a full cup of beans in a salad, soup, or entree. And that is just one meal.

My daily intake of protein is probably 2x or 3x the minimum recommendations. And that is without even thinking about it.

So, what I was saying is that protein deficiency is a myth. Most vegans, unless they are raw fruit vegans, are easily hitting the minimum protein levels, and usually exceed them.

The high protein diet, even among vegans, is toxic and unhealthy.

I don't worry about my protein because it is almost impossible for me to drop below the minimums.

The only way to have a protein deficiency is if there is an eating disorder.

 

[silva]

51 years and older Female 5-ounce equivalents

I am a fairly sedentary 5 ft 70 year old woman.

According to the miniumum recommendations I should have a minimum 5 oz. of protein

1/2 cup of beans = 2 oz protein

2 Tb. peanut butter = 2 oz protein

1 handful of nuts = 1 oz protein.

I, most of the time, get more protein from adding soy milk to my coffee, protein powder, and soy milk, to my smoothies, protein sources like tofu, etc. Usually, I can finish off a full cup of beans in a salad, soup, or entree. And that is just one meal.

My daily intake of protein is probably 2x or 3x the minimum recommendations. And that is without even thinking about it.

So, what I was saying is that protein deficiency is a myth. Most vegans, unless they are raw fruit vegans, are easily hitting the minimum protein levels, and usually exceed them.

The high protein diet, even among vegans, is toxic and unhealthy.

I don't worry about my protein because it is almost impossible for me to drop below the minimums.

The only way to have a protein deficiency is if there is an eating disorder.

I've never seen recommendations that low! That's 20 grams, half of what Dr Gregers daily dozen gets you, and that's with no processed foods at all!

 

[LoreD]

I've never seen recommendations that low! That's 20 grams, half of what Dr Gregers daily dozen gets you, and that's with no processed foods at all!

Those are minimums. Almost everybody gets more than that.

 

[Lou]

From my reading on the subject, 50 grams is the minimum for any age or weight.
It's not that exact - but the math is just so easy to do - .5 g of protein for every pound you weigh. if you're trying to gain or lose weight you put in your Target Weight.

Back in the day I used to get into arguments at the gym where guys would swear that it was one gram for every pound. I think they were just getting the measurements mixed up. it is about one g for every Kg.

Anyway, my Protein Goal is about 65. And if I'm not. paying attention to what I eat I can go below that.
But most days I get around 60 - without thinking about it.

 

[Lou]

And now the other side of the coin....

No, We Aren’t All Eating “Too Much” Protein

Ultimately, if you’re trying to make the argument that we’re eating “too much” protein for our health, you really can’t do that without some evidence that we’re eating so much protein that it’s harming our health on a widespread level. And that evidence just doesn’t exist.

lifehacker.com

 

[Emma JC]

maybe google is wrong however as Canada uses both ounces and grams regularly I though I would just do the math as something seemed off - 5 ounces is equivalent to 142 grams... so if anything the requirement seems very high to me in @LoreD article, no? maybe I am calculating wrongly?


Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[Lou]

maybe google is wrong however as Canada uses both ounces and grams regularly I though I would just do the math as something seemed off - 5 ounces is equivalent to 142 grams... so if anything the requirement seems very high to me in @LoreD article, no? maybe I am calculating wrongly?


Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

Good point, come to think of it I didn't really think about what LoreD said or what she meant by "equivalents".

 

[Lou]

And now the other side of the coin....

No, We Aren’t All Eating “Too Much” Protein

Ultimately, if you’re trying to make the argument that we’re eating “too much” protein for our health, you really can’t do that without some evidence that we’re eating so much protein that it’s harming our health on a widespread level. And that evidence just doesn’t exist.

lifehacker.com

looking at that article a little more critically.
There is some merit in what she says but I think the first article is "more right".
Americans are overly concerned with protein. Even us Vegans get enough protein with trying very hard.
Omnis, I'm sure get more than enough.
And... there are real health risks to eating "too much" protein.
Excess protein gets turned into fat. And excess protein needs to be converted and the produces waste products that need to get filtered by the kidneys - requiring them to work harder. Plus a lot of the "high protein foods (like meat, dairy, and eggs) have health risks as well

When it comes to protein, how much is too much? - Harvard Health

You've probably heard the claims by now: Here's a diet that's delicious, easy to stick with, and guaranteed to help you lose weight effortlessly. Or, perhaps it's supposed to build muscle, protect ...

www.health.harvard.edu

 

[silva]

maybe google is wrong however as Canada uses both ounces and grams regularly I though I would just do the math as something seemed off - 5 ounces is equivalent to 142 grams... so if anything the requirement seems very high to me in @LoreD article, no? maybe I am calculating wrongly?


Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

It isn't 5 ounces of protein--it's 5 ounces of foods that are high in protein:
These recommendations for protein are provided in one-ounce equivalents. One-ounce equivalents of protein foods include:

• One ounce of cooked meat, poultry or fish
• ¼ cup cooked beans
• 1 egg
• 1 tablespoon peanut butter
• ½ ounce nuts or seeds

Comes out to be more like 20-25 grams of protein.
1/4 cup cooked beans ave. 4 grams
Tbls peanut butter is 4 grams
Ground flaxseeds is 2 grams

 

[silva]

I get at least 50 grams without trying, so , cool.

 

[silva]

The push for protein has never seemed to change. It's a constant marketing thing, and now is being manipulated by those who hate on the plant based movement.

 

[LoreD]

It isn't 5 ounces of protein--it's 5 ounces of foods that are high in protein:
These recommendations for protein are provided in one-ounce equivalents. One-ounce equivalents of protein foods include:

• One ounce of cooked meat, poultry or fish
• ¼ cup cooked beans
• 1 egg
• 1 tablespoon peanut butter
• ½ ounce nuts or seeds

Comes out to be more like 20-25 grams of protein.
1/4 cup cooked beans ave. 4 grams
Tbls peanut butter is 4 grams
Ground flaxseeds is 2 grams

These were absolute minimums for the body to sustain itself.

I eat quite a bit of high protein foods. I don't just eat a Tablespoon of peanut butter. I eat it on a pb & j, in a peanut sauce, peanut butter graham cracker sandwiches, etc. I will throw some tahini in a ramen bowl to make it creamy. Believe me, a jar of peanut butter doesn't stay in my refrigerator long.

I eat a lot more than 1/4 cup of beans during a day. A cup of beans on a salad, in a bowl of quick ramen, bean soup, and beans on rice. Beans usually get eaten a couple times per day. That doesn't even include the couple pounds of tofu, or tempeh, that get thrown into my meals each week.

I drink quite a bit of soymilk. In my coffee, in my oatmeal, and on my granola, And when I eat my pb & j, there is usually a cup of soymilk.

I have never eaten just 1/2 ounce of nuts. An individual sized nut snack bag is 1.75 ozs., and I usually don't stop at one. And my morning oatmeal or granola, usually has some chopped up nuts in there. And I usually throw some nuts on my salad.

If I have a morning smoothie, I throw a scoop of protein powder or hemp seeds in there.

The issue is that I don't even think about the protein contents of my food. Because the only vegans that would have problems getting enough protein are the fruitarians (raw vegans) and people with eating disorders.

Even the "junk food" vegans are getting plenty of protein. They are just getting too much fat and ultra processed ingredients, and not enough vegetables.

 

[silva]

These were absolute minimums for the body to sustain itself.

I eat quite a bit of high protein foods. I don't just eat a Tablespoon of peanut butter. I eat it on a pb & j, in a peanut sauce, peanut butter graham cracker sandwiches, etc. I will throw some tahini in a ramen bowl to make it creamy. Believe me, a jar of peanut butter doesn't stay in my refrigerator long.

I eat a lot more than 1/4 cup of beans during a day. A cup of beans on a salad, in a bowl of quick ramen, bean soup, and beans on rice. Beans usually get eaten a couple times per day. That doesn't even include the couple pounds of tofu, or tempeh, that get thrown into my meals each week.

I drink quite a bit of soymilk. In my coffee, in my oatmeal, and on my granola, And when I eat my pb & j, there is usually a cup of soymilk.

I have never eaten just 1/2 ounce of nuts. An individual sized nut snack bag is 1.75 ozs., and I usually don't stop at one. And my morning oatmeal or granola, usually has some chopped up nuts in there. And I usually throw some nuts on my salad.

If I have a morning smoothie, I throw a scoop of protein powder or hemp seeds in there.

The issue is that I don't even think about the protein contents of my food. Because the only vegans that would have problems getting enough protein are the fruitarians (raw vegans) and people with eating disorders.

Even the "junk food" vegans are getting plenty of protein. They are just getting too much fat and ultra processed ingredients, and not enough vegetables.

Oh I get that, just responding to Emma.
I do wonder about that being a minimum for plant based if people aren't eating a variety of aminos. Could the minimum could be enough if things with more complete aminos aren't eaten? Just saying, because with all the wfpb nutritionists going on about eating enough calories meaning enough protein don't go that low
Like that sounds like a raw diet, or fruitarian

 

[christen_g]

And... there are real health risks to eating "too much" protein.
Excess protein gets turned into fat. And excess protein needs to be converted and the produces waste products that need to get filtered by the kidneys - requiring them to work harder. Plus a lot of the "high protein foods (like meat, dairy, and eggs) have health risks as well

I was just thinking about that. I think Lifehacker has a point about "there should be evidence to the claim" because theoreticals like "it must be taxing to the body" "too much of anything is bad" are not what nutrition science is based upon but their claim about harm is so strange when weve already established that protein restriction increases lifespan and reduces morbidity... Whats the opposite of "increasing lifespan"?

 

[LoreD]

I think the problem with "toxic protein" is the Paleo, Atkins, and Carnivore diets. People eating whole sticks of butter, several pounds of meat, a dozen eggs, pounds of cheese, and a gallon of milk; all in one day.

Even with eating a lot of plant based proteins, it really isn't easy for vegans to get to a toxic level of protein.

I watched a YouTube video about a 430 lb. man that decided to do a 30 day vegan challenge. He lost 30 pounds, but kept talking about how much he missed meat. The day after he finished the challenge, he barbecued about 10 pounds of meat, and binge ate it. The next morning, he said that he was going back to the vegan diet, because he got really sick after he ate all the meat.

 

[Emma JC]

It isn't 5 ounces of protein--it's 5 ounces of foods that are high in protein:
These recommendations for protein are provided in one-ounce equivalents. One-ounce equivalents of protein foods include:

if that is correct it is a highly confusing way to try to track it, IMO

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[christen_g]

if that is correct it is a highly confusing way to try to track it, IMO

I actually really like it. Never heard of it until today. A lot easier to use than looking up nutrient info.