Stem Cell Meat

[Jamie in Chile]

A balanced article on stem cell meat. Stem Cell Meat from Singapore: A Taste of the Future

The price of $50/kilo and the fact that they are serving it up to journalists possibly suggests that we might be nearing commercialisation

Note I am posting this for interest, not as a recommended food for vegans since it is probably/arguably not vegan although it seems like a grey area with minimal suffering compared to factory farms
Article on stem cell meat and vegan ethics: Can Vegans Eat Lab Grown Meat? | VegFAQs

Previous threads on this forum:
First hamburger made from lab-grown meat to be served at press conference (2013)
Would I still be considered vegan if I ate cultured meat? (2021)
Lab-Grown Meat (2021)

The new article I´ve just posted from last week doesn´t add much new info to the debate,but worth reading.

 

[Veganite]

although it seems like a grey area

I don't see any grey area, really. As far as I'm concerned, it's either meat or vegetable, and that clearly falls into the meat category for me. I still like the idea of less suffering. Personally, I would not want to even try lab meat, but to each their own.

*

 

[Lou]

I. absolutely think it's a gray area. and one that gets bigger and grayer daily.
We have discussed this in many other thread and its always seems to be controversial.

Lab grown meat is going to be just as un-healthy as regular meat (well maybe a little healthier not having gotten all the hormones and antibiotics that real live livestock get) but veganism is not about about health.

I'm still not sure about the environmental impact - but regardless veganism is not essentially about the environment.

Veganism is essentially about harming/or exploiting animals. and lab grown meat has a minimal impact on Real Live Animals. Not a zero impact but as we just finished discussing in another thread - even growing crops does not have a zero impact on animals.

I think the issue we might need to grapple with is the labels used at the supermarket. We have already seen this with lab grown whey being used to make ice cream and other dairy products. Can it Legally be called vegan? Plant Based? Cruelty -free?

So far the lab grown dairy products are already calling themselves vegan. They are animal free, cruelty free and lactose free.

This is the future. And I think it might be confusing at first but should get straightened out and should. be good news for animals.

In fact, the manufactures may end up choosing not to use the vegan label because so many people equate vegan with Tastes Bad.

 

[shyvas]

Note I am posting this for interest, not as a recommended food for vegans since it is probably/arguably not vegan although it seems like a grey area with minimal suffering compared to factory farms

I think that this is excellent news. I would gather that lab grown meat products are targeted for omni consumers, not vegans.

 

[silva]

I think that this is excellent news. I would gather that lab grown meat products are targeted for omni consumers, not vegans.

I wish this would be targeted towards food for carnivorous animals. As it stands, the typical cat foods are terrible, and the pricier vegan foods are still questionable

 

[LoreD]

I wish this would be targeted towards food for carnivorous animals. As it stands, the typical cat foods are terrible, and the pricier vegan foods are still questionable

Lab-Grown Mouse Meat - For Cats - Is Here​

Lab-Grown Mouse Meat - For Cats - Is Here — Species Unite

Now, one innovative company has launched what it calls the world’s first cultured meat product for pets: The Harmless Hunt Mouse Cookies for Cats.

The sustainable cookies contain lab-grown mouse meat - a cat’s native protein source - without having to harm a single mouse. The lab-grown meat is 100% meat - but it comes from animal cells that grow inside a vat (like beer) instead of inside an animal, the brand explains on their website.

Also known as cell-based or cultured meat, lab-grown meat is one of the leading solutions to eliminate factory farms and help make the suffering of animals in the farming industry a thing of the past. Growing meat in a lab-setting cut the production’s carbon footprint drastically too.

Because, Animals, the company behind the cookies, describe themselves as the only pet food company growing cultured meat for dogs and cats. Founded in 2016, the biotech company aims to “make the most sustainable and nutritious food for dogs and cats on the planet — without ever harming any animals or the environment”.

 

[silva]

Lab-Grown Mouse Meat - For Cats - Is Here​

Lab-Grown Mouse Meat - For Cats - Is Here — Species Unite

Now, one innovative company has launched what it calls the world’s first cultured meat product for pets: The Harmless Hunt Mouse Cookies for Cats.

The sustainable cookies contain lab-grown mouse meat - a cat’s native protein source - without having to harm a single mouse. The lab-grown meat is 100% meat - but it comes from animal cells that grow inside a vat (like beer) instead of inside an animal, the brand explains on their website.

Also known as cell-based or cultured meat, lab-grown meat is one of the leading solutions to eliminate factory farms and help make the suffering of animals in the farming industry a thing of the past. Growing meat in a lab-setting cut the production’s carbon footprint drastically too.

Because, Animals, the company behind the cookies, describe themselves as the only pet food company growing cultured meat for dogs and cats. Founded in 2016, the biotech company aims to “make the most sustainable and nutritious food for dogs and cats on the planet — without ever harming any animals or the environment”.

Yeah, we had that thread: Because, Animals-World's 1st Cultured Meat for Pets and it was brought up that the 'cookies' were high in carbs, which seems like no better nutritionally than reg cat foods. Looks like just treats for now?

Cats and dogs consume more than 25% of the US meat supply"​

I'd like to know how they're coming up with "

 

[Jamie in Chile]

agree this should be for pets such as cats and omnivores rather than vegans
in which case it could do a great deal of good

 

[FoodMaster777]

I´d define veganism as having a plant-based diet and a life-style that avoids harming animals. So cultured meat definitely isn´t a plant-based food, but it avoids hurting animals for sure. So as Lou mentioned, one has to ask oneself if veganism is really about the animals, or about health and diet. Probably each one of us will get to a different conclusion, so a gray area indeed.

Still, I read the articles linked and cultured meat even if it´s better, still depends of a certain sort of exploitation of animals, causing them some discomfort while taking the samples. So I want to raise another dilemma, without humans, livestock animals will more likely be hunted to extinction or invade other ecosystems by reproducing uncontrollably, so if we stop the slaughtering, whta would we do with them?

 

[Jamie in Chile]

I´d define veganism as having a plant-based diet and a life-style that avoids harming animals. So cultured meat definitely isn´t a plant-based food, but it avoids hurting animals for sure. So as Lou mentioned, one has to ask oneself if veganism is really about the animals, or about health and diet. Probably each one of us will get to a different conclusion, so a gray area indeed.

Still, I read the articles linked and cultured meat even if it´s better, still depends of a certain sort of exploitation of animals, causing them some discomfort while taking the samples. So I want to raise another dilemma, without humans, livestock animals will more likely be hunted to extinction or invade other ecosystems by reproducing uncontrollably, so if we stop the slaughtering, whta would we do with them?

If we stop the slaughtering they would just breed less over time until there are far less of them.

 

[FoodMaster777]

If we stop the slaughtering they would just breed less over time until there are far less of them.

How can you know that for a fact? If you freed a set of cows to the wild how is it different from freeing a set of cats? They´re both just partially domesticated but they´re highly dependant of us. What I mean is I see there are two possible options: either they´re hunted till extermination by predators because they are not adapted to the wild and haven´t got survival skills or if there´s no predator they get on top of the food chain and start reproducing incontrollably. Invassive species can jeopardize the balance of ecosystems, I don´t know if you´ve heard of Australia struggle with now endangered local species because of this, they´re trying to kill them with viruses to try and restore the balance.

I don´t see any of this options as optimal, because as mentioned they´re half domesticated, so I don´t find it ethical to simply set them free. The other option would be keeping them in captivity but it doesn´t seem viable either. I´d like somebody to elaborate on this because this is really not a trivial matter.

 

[David3]

How can you know that for a fact? If you freed a set of cows to the wild how is it different from freeing a set of cats? They´re both just partially domesticated but they´re highly dependant of us. What I mean is I see there are two possible options: either they´re hunted till extermination by predators because they are not adapted to the wild and haven´t got survival skills or if there´s no predator they get on top of the food chain and start reproducing incontrollably. Invassive species can jeopardize the balance of ecosystems, I don´t know if you´ve heard of Australia struggle with now endangered local species because of this, they´re trying to kill them with viruses to try and restore the balance.

I don´t see any of this options as optimal, because as mentioned they´re half domesticated, so I don´t find it ethical to simply set them free. The other option would be keeping them in captivity but it doesn´t seem viable either. I´d like somebody to elaborate on this because this is really not a trivial matter.

.
No one is going to free a set of domesticated cows to the wild. They don't do that now, so why would we do that in the future?
.

 

[David3]

Still, I read the articles linked and cultured meat even if it´s better, still depends of a certain sort of exploitation of animals, causing them some discomfort while taking the samples. So I want to raise another dilemma, without humans, livestock animals will more likely be hunted to extinction or invade other ecosystems by reproducing uncontrollably, so if we stop the slaughtering, whta would we do with them?

.
No one is going to release domestic livestock animals to the wild. We don't do that now, so why would we do that in the future?

Discomfort to a small number is animals is much, much less violent than slaughtering millions of animals. Let's be practical.

Do you have a problem with veganism?

 

[FoodMaster777]

.
No one is going to release domestic livestock animals to the wild. We don't do that now, so why would we do that in the future?

Discomfort to a small number is animals is much, much less violent than slaughtering millions of animals. Let's be practical.

Do you have a problem with veganism?

Okay, not to the wild, then where would you release them to? What I´m trying to say is without the human hand they´d probably just die on their own, which I also find a better option than keeping a species alive for instrumental reasons only; but that doesn´t matter, I was trying to find the best option. I don´t have a problem with anything, I think you are misunderstanding my concern and getting mad for absolutely no reason. I just pointed out that it´s not as trivial as " Yeah, simply set them free".

 

[David3]

Okay, not to the wild, then where would you release them to? What I´m trying to say is without the human hand they´d probably just die on their own, which I also find a better option than keeping a species alive for instrumental reasons only; but that doesn´t matter, I was trying to find the best option. I don´t have a problem with anything, I think you are misunderstanding my concern and getting mad for absolutely no reason. I just pointed out that it´s not as trivial as " Yeah, simply set them free".

.
There would be no need to release them - we would just stop breeding them.

The reproduction process of domesticated farm animals is entirely controlled by livestock workers. Males are castrated. Female impregnation is done by artificial insemination.

.

 

[Lou]

Okay, not to the wild, then where would you release them to? What I´m trying to say is without the human hand they´d probably just die on their own, which I also find a better option than keeping a species alive for instrumental reasons only; but that doesn´t matter, I was trying to find the best option. I don´t have a problem with anything, I think you are misunderstanding my concern and getting mad for absolutely no reason. I just pointed out that it´s not as trivial as " Yeah, simply set them free".

unless the world goes vegan overnight- which would be great - but I can't think of a plausible scenario for that *.

The most likely scenario is that people slowly and gradually stop eating meat. and that trend, probably hasn't even started yet.

Cows although they can live to be 20 or so, economically their lives are quite short. Five years is pretty much the upper limit - even for dairy cows. Pigs are even shorter, and chicken's economic lifespans are measured in months.

So if people stop eating meat - as long as it took over five years - and was gradual and somewhat predictable - Farmers would just stop breeding animals. Very much a supply and demand thing. As the demand for meat goes down - the farmers would decrease the supply. So there would never be a reason to release livestock. Although if the reduction in demand is unpredictable and has wild swings we could see some culling. We already see some of that. Like when diary farmers dump milk to decrease supply and increase the price.

Since cows can be brought to a market weight in about 2 years (or less), the cow farmers wouldn't have much problem with decreasing and increasing supply - and pig and chicken farmers - even less. oh yeah, the growers probably would err on the side of caution. and not breed a lot of animals in times of uncertainly. And even if the supply was higher than demand - there is always freezing.

BTW, this argument of "If the world went vegan, what would we do with all the cows", is often used by trolls. If you hang around here long enough you might see it pop up. But the moderators are pretty good at deleting that kind of ****.

Anyway, if you are interested in seeing this discussed by people smarter us, try googling "If the world went vegan, what would we do with all the cows?" There are some really good scholar-ie articles on the subject.

I love the articles that go one step further and describe a world free of livestock. More food, more space, more biodiversity - the list sparks ones imagination.

--------------
* Probably the most likely scenario is some kind of plague either in the cow population or something like Mad Cows disease that can jump to man. Even that seems unlikely tho. Mad cows disease, avian flu, swine flu, have not made any kind of long term big impact. Although the present egg shortage is getting people to stop buying eggs. At least in the short term.

My favorite unlikely scenario is that a huge alien spaceship armada is spotted heading to earth. They are hugely more powerful and more advanced than us. And are peace full in nature. But when video commuincations are established it turns out they look just like cows, pigs and chickens.

 

[LoreD]

If we stop the slaughtering they would just breed less over time until there are far less of them.

True. I live in Wisconsin dairy country. I see all of the abandoned dairy farms. Unfortunately, when the dairy farm closed, the cows were sent to slaughterhouses. But after that, there was no new breeding of dairy cows from the farm. No new calves were born to be raised as veal or beef cattle.

As each farm, or ranch closes, the last of the animals are slaughtered, but no new ones are bred to be slaughtered for food.

I don't know anyone who believes that the farmers, and ranchers, are going to open the barn doors to allow the domesticated animals to roam the countryside.

 

[FoodMaster777]

unless the world goes vegan overnight- which would be great - but I can't think of a plausible scenario for that *.

The most likely scenario is that people slowly and gradually stop eating meat. and that trend, probably hasn't even started yet.

Cows although they can live to be 20 or so, economically their lives are quite short. Five years is pretty much the upper limit - even for dairy cows. Pigs are even shorter, and chicken's economic lifespans are measured in months.

So if people stop eating meat - as long as it took over five years - and was gradual and somewhat predictable - Farmers would just stop breeding animals. Very much a supply and demand thing. As the demand for meat goes down - the farmers would decrease the supply. So there would never be a reason to release livestock. Although if the reduction in demand is unpredictable and has wild swings we could see some culling. We already see some of that. Like when diary farmers dump milk to decrease supply and increase the price.

Since cows can be brought to a market weight in about 2 years (or less), the cow farmers wouldn't have much problem with decreasing and increasing supply - and pig and chicken farmers - even less. oh yeah, the growers probably would err on the side of caution. and not breed a lot of animals in times of uncertainly. And even if the supply was higher than demand - there is always freezing.

BTW, this argument of "If the world went vegan, what would we do with all the cows", is often used by trolls. If you hang around here long enough you might see it pop up. But the moderators are pretty good at deleting that kind of ****.

Anyway, if you are interested in seeing this discussed by people smarter us, try googling "If the world went vegan, what would we do with all the cows?" There are some really good scholar-ie articles on the subject.

I love the articles that go one step further and describe a world free of livestock. More food, more space, more biodiversity - the list sparks ones imagination.

--------------
* Probably the most likely scenario is some kind of plague either in the cow population or something like Mad Cows disease that can jump to man. Even that seems unlikely tho. Mad cows disease, avian flu, swine flu, have not made any kind of long term big impact. Although the present egg shortage is getting people to stop buying eggs. At least in the short term.

My favorite unlikely scenario is that a huge alien spaceship armada is spotted heading to earth. They are hugely more powerful and more advanced than us. And are peace full in nature. But when video commuincations are established it turns out they look just like cows, pigs and chickens.

True. I live in Wisconsin dairy country. I see all of the abandoned dairy farms. Unfortunately, when the dairy farm closed, the cows were sent to slaughterhouses. But after that, there was no new breeding of dairy cows from the farm. No new calves were born to be raised as veal or beef cattle.

As each farm, or ranch closes, the last of the animals are slaughtered, but no new ones are bred to be slaughtered for food.

I don't know anyone who believes that the farmers, and ranchers, are going to open the barn doors to allow the domesticated animals to roam the countryside.

Thank you both, this is exactly the kind of answer I was hoping to get. I didn´t know it was used for trolling though, my question was sincere, like if we didn´t need them for utilitarian reason what´s the ethical choice? It appears it is as I feared, they can´t be freed to the countryside. I was being really naive, thinking about it as an abrupt change, I guess we would just gradually breed them less and less until there are only a few of them kept for lab work (since this topic was all about stem cell meat). And if we didn´t need them whatsoever, with the answers you´ve given me I guess we would let them go extinct. I can go on the web yes, but sometimes I prefer to ask to other people because it can be boring.

 

[silva]

Thank you both, this is exactly the kind of answer I was hoping to get. I didn´t know it was used for trolling though, my question was sincere, like if we didn´t need them for utilitarian reason what´s the ethical choice? It appears it is as I feared, they can´t be freed to the countryside. I was being really naive, thinking about it as an abrupt change, I guess we would just gradually breed them less and less until there are only a few of them kept for lab work (since this topic was all about stem cell meat). And if we didn´t need them whatsoever, with the answers you´ve given me I guess we would let them go extinct. I can go on the web yes, but sometimes I prefer to ask to other people because it can be boring.

So many of the original species we now breed are extinct. I watched a PBS show about the original cows found in Isreal (if I remember correctly). They were quite small compared to what we now call cows. Of course the fowl that are bred are mostly so breast heavy they stand supported by the crowds of birds around them

It's my belief that the reduction of animals bred for food will come out of necessity rather than ethics. From being harder to ignore the health effects, to the increase in disease spread from animals in confinement.
Kinda like the fight for renewable energy, we need to put funds into making it possible rather than bemoan the drawbacks

 

[Lou]

I guess we would just gradually breed them less and less until there are only a few of them kept for lab work (since this topic was all about stem cell meat).

Usually I'm an optimist but I don't think that is likely. Some people no matter what will want to buy meat.
But ok, I guess maybe someday because of other factors we will just have lab grown meat.

And if we didn´t need them whatsoever, with the answers you´ve given me I guess we would let them go extinct.

most of our livestock animals could not live in the wild. They have been breed to the point they are no longer viable. (I'm thinking sheep and chickens - but I guess cows and pigs would be ok).

I see it as their populations get really small they should just live in parks and zoos.

So many of the original species we now breed are extinct.

I don't think there is One original cow. Nowadays beef comes from many different species. in fact scientists have identified many separate domestication "events".

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1303367110

Kansas Beef Council - Popular Breeds of Cattle

www.kansasbeef.org

Also if there was one orriginal cow ancestor it would be the Aurochs. And the Aurochs were really big.

It's my belief the consumption of animals will come out of necessity rather than ethics.

I'm not sure you worded that right. Did you mean the reduction of the consumption of animals will come from necessity.
In which case I totally agree.

From being harder to ignore the health effects, to the increase in disease spread from animals in confinement.

Not to mention global warming.

Kinda like the fight for renewable energy, we need to put funds into making it possible rather than bemoan the drawbacks

Maybe like many other things we need both. A combination of the two.