12 killed, 50 wounded at Aurora movie theater

[Ansciess]

What kinds of places are you visiting where you see people joking about this? I've not seen that.

 

[FortyTwo]

What kinds of places are you visiting where you see people joking about this? I've not seen that.

All over the internet. Including in this thread, but not nearly as bad as elsewhere.

 

[Ansciess]

 

[FortyTwo]

I honestly don't buy into the whole "violence in the media" thing. People will be violent lunatics if they're going to be violent lunatics. Before media even existed there were people like this.

 

[Ansciess]

I don't think the big and most useful debate to be had now is about violence in the media, because that's so amorphous. I think it's about gun control, because something concrete can be done about that.

If you're referring to the video I posted, violence in the media is not the point of the song, and you'd have to listen until the end.

 

[das_nut]

Switzerland has half the number of guns per capita that the US does, but doesn't seem to have half the violent gun deaths.

Finland has about 2/5ths the guns the US has, but doesn't have 2/5ths the violent gun deaths.

I think culture plays a huge role. People have the attitude that violence should be used to solve problems in the US, and it shows.

 

[FortyTwo]

I don't think the big and most useful debate to be had now is about violence in the media, because that's so amorphous. I think it's about gun control, because something concrete can be done about that.

If you're referring to the video I posted, violence in the media is not the point of the song, and you'd have to listen until the end.

I did watch it, and I know. It's more of a gun control point.

 

[Wolfie]

I honestly don't buy into the whole "violence in the media" thing. People will be violent lunatics if they're going to be violent lunatics. Before media even existed there were people like this.

I agree. My siblings, friends and I watched TV and movies as kids that I'm quite sure would be a big no-no for today's oversensitive parents. None of us have gone on a killing spree because of it.

 

[Ansciess]

Switzerland has half the number of guns per capita that the US does, but doesn't seem to have half the violent gun deaths.

Finland has about 2/5ths the guns the US has, but doesn't have 2/5ths the violent gun deaths.

I think culture plays a huge role. People have the attitude that violence should be used to solve problems in the US, and it shows.

Here I see the firearm homicide rate per 100,000 people in Switzerland at .56, and Finland at .43, while in the US it is 2.97.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_crime

 

[das_nut]

Here I see the firearm homicide rate per 100,000 people in Switzerland at .56, and Finland at .43, while in the US it is 2.97.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_crime

Correlating the statistics with this page we get:

US: 88,800 guns and 2.97 violent gun deaths per 100,000 people, or .000033 deaths per gun.
Switzerland: 45,700 guns and .56 violent gun deaths per 100,000 people, or .000012 deaths per gun.
Finland: 32,000 guns and .43 violent gun deaths per 100,000 people, or .000013 deaths per gun.

The US has about 175% more deaths per gun than Switzerland or Finland. Sure we have more guns, but our guns are much more likely to be used to kill someone. It's the culture.

 

[mlp]

that violence should be used to solve problems in the US, and it shows.

I agree.

It's actually what I fault the NRA and the anti gun control lobby the most for - not so much opposing gun control laws, but the way they go about it.

 

[AspireToExpire]

Let's face that things imprint on us. There was an interesting study I was reading that even your "soul" imprints on others and every person you come in contact with develops the traits you possess. But the choice is ulitmately left to the one who commits the crime.

The question is, are they aware and intelligent but lacking some or all of which makes other humans obey laws and maintain order within the pack. If so, the perp needs to be put down just like a mad dog would be rather than waste room and funding.

 

[nog]

There was an interesting study I was reading that even your "soul" imprints on others and every person you come in contact with develops the traits you possess.

What?

 

[Ansciess]

Sure we have more guns, but our guns are much more likely to be used to kill someone. It's the culture.

Or perhaps their gun control laws actually work to keep guns out of the hands of the most unstable or dangerous people whereas in this country pretty much anyone can get a gun at a gun show.

 

[led.boots]

Sadder and sadder as I learn more about the victims.

 

[das_nut]

Or perhaps their gun control laws actually work to keep guns out of the hands of the most unstable or dangerous people whereas in this country pretty much anyone can get a gun at a gun show.

Maybe. But only about 1 out of every 30,000 guns is used in a violent murder according to my calculations, using the figures given in this thread. If (say) there's 5x as many non-fatal gunshot wounds (using the old gun injuries/death figures from 2000 that wikipedia quotes), then it's only one out of literally thousands of guns each year that will be used to injure or kill someone.

Sounds like gun restrictions are most likely going to restrict people who don't use their guns to maim or kill.

 

[Ansciess]

...it's only one out of literally thousands of guns each year that will be used to injure or kill someone.

Sounds like gun restrictions are most likely going to restrict people who don't use their guns to maim or kill.

That's still a lot of guns in dangerous hands when you're in a population of hundreds of millions.

Of course gun restrictions are going to restrict people who aren't necessarily going to use them to maim or kill people (although they might use them to maim or kill animals). Every law restricts people. But I think it's too bad if some law abiding citizen really wants to own an assault rifle even if they only intend to...masturbate with it? Kill animals with it? I don't know...if average citizen didn't have access to an assault rifle like the one the shooter used that seems fine with me.

 

[Freesia]

I hate guns. Except for fun guns like water guns and bubble guns.

 

[K-II]

That's still a lot of guns in dangerous hands when you're in a population of hundreds of millions.

Of course gun restrictions are going to restrict people who aren't necessarily going to use them to maim or kill people (although they might use them to maim or kill animals). Every law restricts people. But I think it's too bad if some law abiding citizen really wants to own an assault rifle even if they only intend to...masturbate with it? Kill animals with it? I don't know...if average citizen didn't have access to an assault rifle like the one the shooter used that seems fine with me.

Or they could just not sell them to crazy people, and we wouldn't have to bother the average citizen.

 

[das_nut]

I don't know...if average citizen didn't have access to an assault rifle like the one the shooter used that seems fine with me.

I don't believe the shooter had an assault rifle.

Sorry, but the rest of this post is going to be pure info-dump.

An "assault rifle" is a weapon that's capable of selective fire. Which means it can switch from semi-automatic mode to full automatic mode.

Let me explain what "semi-automatic" and "full automatic" means. To put that in laymen's terms, when you pull the trigger on a semi-automatic, it fires once and then, using the energy from the bullet firing, cycles a fresh bullet into the chamber. To fire another bullet, you have to pull the trigger again. (Think of a semi-automatic as a revolver that you don't have to pull back a hammer each time. This isn't technically accurate, but it is similar to how a semi-automatic works.) A full automatic is different. When you pull the trigger, the gun keeps firing bullets until it runs out of ammo. Think of a full automatic as a machine gun like an old-fashioned tommy gun that gangsters use in the movies. Or a machine gun. Both are full automatic weapons.

Now, I can walk down to any gun store and get a semi-automatic weapon pretty easily. No problem at all as long as I pass the criminal background check.

But if I walk into the same gun store and ask for a full-automatic weapon, I'm going to run into problems. First, the dealer is going to have to be licensed to sell them. Assuming that's the case, I'm going to be required to be licensed to buy one. See, back in 1934, tommy guns weren't some b-movie cliche, but were a serious problem for the government when it was trying to stomp down on bootlegging. The government passed a rather strict law when it comes to possessing a full automatic firearm.

Basically, the government would want my fingerprints, would want two passport photos, would want a fee, and will run a criminal background check on me. Oh, and local law enforcement must sign off on the ownership. Weapons are restricted to those made before a certain time (no new full-automatic weapons can be registered, with a few exceptions). Assuming that I fulfill the requirements, the weapon itself must be registered, and any changes in possession (as if I sell it) must also be registered.

Owning a regular gun is fine. Owning a full automatic weapon (as in a machine gun) is a lot harder. Several states ban them outright. (Colorado is not one of them.) But there are no credible reports that an assault rifle was used.

You may be thinking of an assault weapon, which is a term defined into law with the (now expired) assault weapon ban. An assault weapon is basically a bull**** term that came into being when a bunch of people who didn't know much about guns tried to ban the scary looking guns. (I wish I wasn't exaggerating - these are your congresscritters at work.) When the assault weapon came into effect, it banned certain types of semi-automatic weapons. The manufactures ended up making a few minor changes that for the most part didn't affect any functionality of the weapons they were producing, and got around the law. This result was more or less predictable by anyone who read the law, knew a few things about firearms, and could think.