What kind of veganism is this forum based on?

[permabulk]

Is this forum specifically about animal-welfare based veganism aka ethical veganism? Or is it sort of just about anything that's called veganism? I mean some people say they are vegans because of the environment, some eat vegan for personal health reasons, religious reasons, etc. I know anyone can join, but I'm asking specifically about the core theme/topic of the forum, the reason it was created.

 

[Second Summer]

Today's VF is the result of merging two forums back in 2020: Veggie Views, which started in 2012, and the 'old' VF, which was started around 2015.

Based on the views held by the majority of the membership (as well as my own views), I believe it's fair to say both these forums focused on 'ethical veganism'.

That said, I think we're a fairly inclusive bunch here, and there are other views among the members.

 

[Emma JC]

As is many things in life many people approach issues from different aspects. Some of us came to veganism from the health aspect, some from animal welfare and some from environmental and most of us then came to appreciate/adhere to the other two.

We are inclusive, tolerant and try to incorporate kindness to humans that agree with us on every aspect.

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[g0rph]

Seems like there are many views here.
But just to stress..."veganism" is ALWAYS from an ethical standpoint.
If you come from an environmental standpoint, then there are aspects of veganism you might not worry about...Silk would not be an issue for example.
If you come from a health standpoint, then you can wear leather, wool, silk. Eat honey, white meat etc.

I say this as someone who is now "mostly vegan"...and of course, from an ethical standpoint.

 

[Lou]

..."veganism" is ALWAYS from an ethical standpoint.

Yes. but probably needs a qualifier before that statement.
Technically? Essentially? Ideally?
and take out the "Always".

muddy waters

 

[Brian W]

Seems like there are many views here.
But just to stress..."veganism" is ALWAYS from an ethical standpoint.
If you come from an environmental standpoint, then there are aspects of veganism you might not worry about...Silk would not be an issue for example.
If you come from a health standpoint, then you can wear leather, wool, silk. Eat honey, white meat etc.

I say this as someone who is now "mostly vegan"...and of course, from an ethical standpoint.

The original food definition of the word Vegan still stands because it is still the widest understood usage, despite the Vegan Society attempts at covering up their history.

 

[g0rph]

Yes. but probably needs a qualifier before that statement.
Technically? Essentially? Ideally?
and take out the "Always".

muddy waters

I'm not sure how someone could ever be truly "vegan" without the ethical angle.
Plant-based, sure. But full-on vegan, with everything the definition demands?

Again, it's why I dropped that tag. Essentially I am an egg-free, dairy-free, leather/wool/silk-free vegetarian who also avoids toiletries tested on animals. I can't subscribe to the letter of the definition as I don't agree with it...

 

[Lou]

But full-on vegan, with everything the definition demands?

Depends on the definition. but the one I use has the words "strive" and "possible and practicable" in it which makes it very do-able

 

[Second Summer]

I wonder if it could make sense for someone to adhere to full 'lifestyle veganism' even if their motivation and beliefs diverge somewhat to that of mainstream vegans. While maybe 'lifestyle veganism' goes a bit further than they would otherwise do, they could still choose to follow it because of solidarity with people who after all share closely aligned beliefs, and maybe they also recognise the benefits of a movement that is making their lives easier.

 

[g0rph]

Depends on the definition. but the one I use has the words "strive" and "possible and practicable" in it which makes it very do-able

Yes, but that's more to do with diet in the end. It isn't un-practicable for anyone NOT to buy silk, wool, honey, leather etc aside perhaps from in certain developing countries where the choice is limited.
It's not un-practicable for anyone in the world NOT to support animal breeders by buying pets or riding horses for pleasure.

"Veganism" by its very nature, with all it entails, is an ethics-driven philosophy. The health and environmental benefits are a bonus.

 

[Tom L.]

@g0rph I think labels are important to a large extent, and it's best that words have reasonably precise definitions. I identify as "strict vegetarian" because I usually wear leather footwear; I believe the leather I use comes from animals who are bred and slaughtered for their flesh, not their hides. (I am open to arguments to the contrary, and realize that this still gives a financial boost- however small- to the meat industry.) But sometimes I consume foods with egg or milk products. I think that by identifying as "strict vegetarian", I make more effort to avoid these foods than I would otherwise.

The occasional pleather-clad foot applied to my behind, courtesy of the friendly neighborhood Vegan Police, is an additional motivation.

 

[Second Summer]

Yes, but that's more to do with diet in the end. It isn't un-practicable for anyone NOT to buy silk, wool, honey, leather etc aside perhaps from in certain developing countries where the choice is limited.

I disagree, because I think shoes containing leather can be the only practicable option for some people in certain circumstances.

 

[silva]

I disagree, because I think shoes containing leather can be the only practicable option for some people in certain circumstances.

Me
I mean not completely, but I have very hard to fit feet and have spent more time trying shoes on than any other clothing shopping. Years ago I found leather shoes that are just wonderful, and have tried the non leather ones, and others, but the non leather ones just don't wear well. I have bought three pairs on Ebay and other sites of the ones I like.

Edit: By no means am I saying leather has any special quality to make the shoes work for me, only that the structure and I guess just the coincidence that works so well for me. I'm sure there could be other materials. I once had a pair of oiled canvas shoes that suited my feet well, but I never found again

 

[beancounter]

Greetings, I'm from the ideological purity board, and I'm here to help....

 

[g0rph]

I disagree, because I think shoes containing leather can be the only practicable option for some people in certain circumstances.

Fair enough. Jeans also can be difficult to get without the patch, although I believe many are now not actually leather.
I did also qualify with certain global areas where choice is limited. But in the end the point is still relevant...

The original point was that veganism itself always comes from an ethical/moral standpoint about the use of animals, rather than health or environment, simply because there are non-vegan aspects of society that people choosing plant-based for health, or environment might not even think about.

 

[g0rph]

@g0rph I think labels are important to a large extent, and it's best that words have reasonably precise definitions. I identify as "strict vegetarian" because I usually wear leather footwear; I believe the leather I use comes from animals who are bred and slaughtered for their flesh, not their hides. (I am open to arguments to the contrary, and realize that this still gives a financial boost- however small- to the meat industry.) But sometimes I consume foods with egg or milk products. I think that by identifying as "strict vegetarian", I make more effort to avoid these foods than I would otherwise.

The occasional pleather-clad foot applied to my behind, courtesy of the friendly neighborhood Vegan Police, is an additional motivation.

Yes, in many ways I think we need some more labels.
I always thought "vegan" was a touch strict.
I have mentioned before, I have many views that contradict the definition..."Pets", service animals, etc.

As for milk / eggs.
Well I would sooner eat a steak than something with milk in it. The dairy industry, when you look at it, of all animal industries...is among the most despicable.
But I get that when some innocuous product has milk powder in it, the disconnect is even further away and it's easier to ignore than a very real, bloody piece of meat...even if the process itself is actually worse than the simple killing of a beef cow.
Eggs, I won't touch, although I can't see a huge problem with eating rescue hen eggs, providing the hens are fed properly.

 

[g0rph]

Me
I mean not completely, but I have very hard to fit feet and have spent more time trying shoes on than any other clothing shopping. Years ago I found leather shoes that are just wonderful, and have tried the non leather ones, and others, but the non leather ones just don't wear well. I have bought three pairs on Ebay and other sites of the ones I like.

Edit: By no means am I saying leather has any special quality to make the shoes work for me, only that the structure and I guess just the coincidence that works so well for me. I'm sure there could be other materials. I once had a pair of oiled canvas shoes that suited my feet well, but I never found again

Maybe I'm lucky. I don't need formal shoes. I wear trainers(sneakers) / hiking shoes for everything. I simply buy synthetic.
I have a pair of leather motorbike boots that are still in use, but I will be swapping for synthetic shortly and passing the leather ones on.

It's got to the point that I simply don't feel comfortable wearing animal skin any more

 

[Lou]

Colleen just posted something that I think really helps this discussion. Maybe it's a paradigm shift - or a different lens. but I totally agree with this point of view.

The Goal is Compassion​

Compassion has always been the foundation of my work and life, and it is the topic of my next book, A Year of Compassion: 52 Weeks of Living Zero Waste, Plant-Based, and Cruelty-Free.​

​

Compassion is why I’m vegan. But veganism is not my goal. Compassion is.​

​

I don’t strive to be as vegan as I can be. I strive to be as compassionate as I can be.​

​

When we think being vegan is the destination to reach, we treat it as an ideology and obsess over trying to be perfect and pure.​

​

I don’t live according to veganism. I live according to compassion.​

The Difference Between Compassion, Empathy, Sympathy, and Altruism - Colleen Patrick-Goudreau

The Goal is Compassion Compassion has always been the foundation of my work and life, and it is the topic of my next book, A Year of Compassion: 52 Weeks of Living Zero Waste, Plant-Based, and Cruelty-Free. Compassion is why I’m vegan. But veganism is not my goal. Compassion is. I don’t strive...

colleenpatrickgoudreau.com

Or not to sound to Zen-like, but Veganism is not the destination. Veganism is just the path.

 

[PTree15]

Colleen just posted something that I think really helps this discussion. Maybe it's a paradigm shift - or a different lens. but I totally agree with this point of view.

The Goal is Compassion​

Compassion has always been the foundation of my work and life, and it is the topic of my next book, A Year of Compassion: 52 Weeks of Living Zero Waste, Plant-Based, and Cruelty-Free.​

​

Compassion is why I’m vegan. But veganism is not my goal. Compassion is.​

​

I don’t strive to be as vegan as I can be. I strive to be as compassionate as I can be.​

​

When we think being vegan is the destination to reach, we treat it as an ideology and obsess over trying to be perfect and pure.​

​

I don’t live according to veganism. I live according to compassion.​

The Difference Between Compassion, Empathy, Sympathy, and Altruism - Colleen Patrick-Goudreau

The Goal is Compassion Compassion has always been the foundation of my work and life, and it is the topic of my next book, A Year of Compassion: 52 Weeks of Living Zero Waste, Plant-Based, and Cruelty-Free. Compassion is why I’m vegan. But veganism is not my goal. Compassion is. I don’t strive...

colleenpatrickgoudreau.com

Or not to sound to Zen-like, but Veganism is not the destination. Veganism is just the path.

Someone on VB years ago expressed a similar sentiment, and that's how I have approached it: Veganism is a journey, not a destination.

 

[Brian W]

But just to stress..."veganism" is ALWAYS from an ethical standpoint.

No.