Vegans, do we need our own conspiracy theory?

Lou

Forum Legend
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Reaction score
11,867
Age
66
Location
San Mateo, Ca
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
Those of you who have gotten to know me over the past couple of years are probably well aware that my mind works in mysterious ways. and of those of you who have no idea who I am, let me preface the following with the warning that my imagination sometimes is sort of like a wild horse that sometimes gets away from me.

I was reading something totally unrelated and got this idea. What we (vegans) need is a really good conspiracy theory.

There are plenty of facts that vegans know that most people don't know (or don't care about). and I think it's obvious that the spreading of facts is just not working that great.

I think some of the documentaries had the right idea. Cowspiracy, What the Heath, and Seaspiracy even framed it as conspiracy. And although those movies have had an impact - they haven't really moved the needle. Maybe they have too many facts.

Mark Twain once said that by the time Truth has laced up his boots, the Lie has gone around the world. MIT just recently quanitified this. Lies spread four times faster than facts.

Heck, Vegans are already blamed for spreading lies, propaganda and being being brain washed. We might as well embrace it and use it.

They say that the best lies are the ones that contain a kernel of truth. I wonder if that is still true. Maybe that is old-fashioned or quaint. They also say that it has to be believable. Maybe that isn't true anymore either. Most of the stuff I keep hearing is both baseless and unbelievable.

I don't think its a good idea for a vegan conspiracy theory to promote violence. That seems totally inconsistent with vegan values. I think we just need some reason for people to stop eating meat. Obviously the hundreds of good reasons out there are not good enough. Perhaps they are too fact based.

Something along the lines that vaccines cause autism. (disproven)
Covid is caused by G5 towers. (no evidence)
Climate change isn't real (its a Chinese plot)
The Earth is flat. The moon landing was a hoax, 9/11 and whatever, The 1/6 insurrection was just a peaceful protest and/or a false flag operation by Antifa, Trump won the election. Forty thousand fake Chinese ballots were flown into Arizona and swayed the election for Biden. Hillary Clinton murdered 14 people.

I've already thought of things like the meat industry is injecting cows with the covid vaccine. or there is a secret liberal cabal that is raping baby cows. An undetectable nano-robot is being injected in our meat that will take over our brains.

I just don't like anything I've come up with yet.

Any suggestions?

PS. Note to moderators. Feel free to delete this thread. it might be a bad idea. or... maybe if you delete it, it will only make it a more believable conspiracy theory

;)
 

ProtoHuman

Newcomer
Joined
May 19, 2021
Reaction score
8
Age
26
Location
Greece
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan newbie
People who do not believe in conspiracies are no better than those who believe in all conspiracy theories.
When it comes to corporations, they definitely use various dishonest acts. There are certainly studies whose methodology is not correct and the results are being improved. It is certainly a lot of field for creating conspiracy theories and I would love to read some interesting ones
 

Removed

Mad Bard
Joined
Jun 15, 2018
Reaction score
2,407
Location
.
Lifestyle
  1. Other
Lizard aliens are responsible for the meat and dairy industries because they want our flesh to have a particular consistency when they serve it in their restaurants. When we eat meat and dairy, we willingly support their cause.

#Lizard #vegan #conspiracy
 
Last edited:
  • Love
  • Like
Reactions: Lou and Emma JC

ProtoHuman

Newcomer
Joined
May 19, 2021
Reaction score
8
Age
26
Location
Greece
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan newbie
Many conspiracy theories are made just to make the real ones seem funny. Some turned out to be true. The history of the world is a history of conspiracies, conspiracies and existed in Egypt, ancient Rome, in the Middle Ages, in the 20th century - the fact that we are in the 21st century does not mean that people suddenly stopped plotting
 
OP
OP
Lou

Lou

Forum Legend
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Reaction score
11,867
Age
66
Location
San Mateo, Ca
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
I think coming up with a good one is a lot more challenging that I expected.

then there is the hazard, what if we come up with a good one and next week we see it repeated on the news??!!
Would that be a good thing?

---------
Big Pharma and Big Food have secretly joined forces to encourage people to eat more butter, eggs and meat with the intent to sell more food and more pharmaceuticals. Magazines and TV shows are their unwitting tools.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Emma JC and feather

feather

Forum Senior
Joined
May 8, 2021
Reaction score
298
Location
Midwest US
Lifestyle
  1. Other
I like it. @Lou it's entirely too factual. As though being factual is a bad thing, lol.
A good investment strategy is to cause a problem with your product, then profit creating a cure. Even if what you have is not a cure but a remedy, people love pills so create one that is 51% better than a poison like sugar, and it's a win win. So if your money is in pork and dairy, and your cure is in hand, there you go.

It must have a lie involved. It has to be prefaced by a lie, but it must be a lie that people already believe, like they need more protein. Advertising and conspiracy theories, are similar.

I thought it was a terrific boss of a marketing campaign for the Pork advertisers to rant about the protein shortage last year. There were people in my vicinity that believed that.

What some people want most is a money tree, so a seed that will grow a money tree. Like a pill that will make one. Like a bit coin. Oddly, people that are looking for health are brushed off because they believe health can be bought, through medical science and pharma. This is an idea we almost all believe in but it misses the mark to accomplish it (good health).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Emma JC and Lou

feather

Forum Senior
Joined
May 8, 2021
Reaction score
298
Location
Midwest US
Lifestyle
  1. Other
Darn it. I'm just no good at this.
You're just not qualified enough to do this, and ME EITHER. We should look for help on this from used car salesmen/woman. They seemed to have cornered the market on not being entirely factual. Your post just created lots of laughter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lou

silva

Forum Legend
Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2012
Reaction score
14,267
Location
USA
But people only like conspiracy theories that align with the thought processes they already have :shrug:. That's why the one that involves soy giving men boobs has caught on so much more than the reality of beer, and hormone infused meats and dairy.
They're all dependant on whether they make what they already like even better, and what is already disliked even worse.
That one documentary used conspiracies like eating an egg a day is worse than a pack of cigarettes. Went around a bit, but didn't last
Did the whole wet market helping produce covid 19 change many minds?

Am I missing the point?

What I am seeing change people is simply the access and acceptance of plant based foods, whether healthy or not
People do like the imitation meats like beyond--except the ones in it for health, and they're all too often anti-vegan, which is not helpful!
 
OP
OP
Lou

Lou

Forum Legend
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Reaction score
11,867
Age
66
Location
San Mateo, Ca
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
  • Like
Reactions: Emma JC

feather

Forum Senior
Joined
May 8, 2021
Reaction score
298
Location
Midwest US
Lifestyle
  1. Other
But people only like conspiracy theories that align with the thought processes they already have :shrug:. That's why the one that involves soy giving men boobs has caught on so much more than the reality of beer, and hormone infused meats and dairy.
They're all dependant on whether they make what they already like even better, and what is already disliked even worse.
That one documentary used conspiracies like eating an egg a day is worse than a pack of cigarettes. Went around a bit, but didn't last
Did the whole wet market helping produce covid 19 change many minds?

Am I missing the point?

What I am seeing change people is simply the access and acceptance of plant based foods, whether healthy or not
People do like the imitation meats like beyond--except the ones in it for health, and they're all too often anti-vegan, which is not helpful!
Do I believe in a conspiracy theory?
Feather, doing introspection: "Did the whole wet market helping produce covid 19 change any minds?" The wet market like the factory farming, did change my mind. I have a preconceived notion that a wet market is like a factory farm. Both are humid and breed bacteria and viruses. Have you looked at the dishes sitting in water in the kitchen sink breeding bacteria and viruses and possibly mold, fungus, and mildew? Dr Greger pointed to studies about factory farming producing viruses that jump from animals to humans, then human to human transmission. Does that mean I am a believer in conspiracy theories? I guess it did. I guess I'm a complete idiot and believe in a conspiracy.

The wet market being in a foreign land didn't change my perception. It made sense because the humid conditions were common among both environments.

@silva, what is the problem with the vegans in it for health? What are WE saying, that other vegans are not saying?
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: Lou

Jamie in Chile

Forum Legend
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Reaction score
1,541
Age
42
Lifestyle
  1. Vegetarian
I think Cowspiracy, and Seaspiracy DID move the needle as much as you can realistically expect a movie to do, which is not going to be a huge, transformational amount.

I sometimes think those movies, along with What the Health (which I don't think really had a noticeable impact on the needle) were deliberately careless with the facts in order to ignite controversy and debate and promote the movie's agenda.

For example if you say that 30% of the plastic in the oceans is due to fishing it's a conservative claim, so no-one will challenge it or debate it, and so no-one will become aware that any of the plastic in the oceans is due to fishing.

But if you say that 70% of the plastic in the oceans it's due to fishing (can't remember actual numbers they use) well then now people are arguing across both social and mainstream media about whether it's really 30% or 70%. All of a sudden, everyone sees that no-one is claiming that fishing doesn't put any plastic in the oceans. Amidst all the argument, in the space of a week Seaspiracy changed "fishing is a substantial contributor to ocean plastic" from completely unknown to an established fact in about a week.

We could try this with pandemics, We could all agree to go on facebook and share a meme that says "every single pandemic in the last 50 years was caused by meat, or trading other animal products". Now I'm guessing that this statement is false (although I don't really know) and so people might reply and argue and point out that pandemic such and such was actually caused by something else, and than the origins of COVID-19 are still unproven, and they'd probably be right. But in the midst of all the argument "animal products cause certainly some and probably most pandemics" would become established fact.

Whereas if we literally wrote "animal products cause certainly some and probably most pandemics" such a conservative, hard to dispute statement would probably provoke no reaction at all, and therefore sink without trace, and most people would never know it was true. Some of the fault for this is in the architecture of both mainstream and social media but I think I've already gone on about that elsewhere.

But still...I wouldn't be in favour of making false or exaggerated statements or conspiracy theories. I think truth wins in the long run.

The ally that truth needs is not lies but cheaper and more readily available Beyond Burgers.

PS Although I decided to go for a serious response, I do realize that the original thread from Lou was more of a joke!
 
  • Like
  • Agree
Reactions: silva and Lou
OP
OP
Lou

Lou

Forum Legend
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Reaction score
11,867
Age
66
Location
San Mateo, Ca
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
Do I believe in a conspiracy theory?
Feather, doing introspection: "Did the whole wet market helping produce covid 19 change any minds?" The wet market like the factory farming, did change my mind. I have a preconceived notion that a wet market is like a factory farm. Both are humid and breed bacteria and viruses. Have you looked at the dishes sitting in water in the kitchen sink breeding bacteria and viruses and possibly mold, fungus, and mildew? Dr Greger pointed to studies about factory farming producing viruses that jump from animals to humans, then human to human transmission. Does that mean I am a believer in conspiracy theories? I guess it did. I guess I'm a complete idiot and believe in a conspiracy.

The wet market being in a foreign land didn't change my perception. It made sense because the humid conditions were common among both environments.

@silva, what is the problem with the vegans in it for health? What are WE saying, that other vegans are not saying?
I don't think either of those things work into the conspiracy theory definition.

And it might be worth noting that not all conspiracy theories are false. but its the false ones that spread the fastest and are dangerous.


Conspiracy Theory
  1. a belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for a circumstance or event.
    "they sought to account for the attacks in terms of a conspiracy theory"

 
  • Like
Reactions: feather
OP
OP
Lou

Lou

Forum Legend
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Reaction score
11,867
Age
66
Location
San Mateo, Ca
Lifestyle
  1. Vegan
@Jamie in Chile

I was going for a little humor. I thought it would be a fun exercise. but my want for something to get people involved is real.

"But still...I wouldn't be in favour of making false or exaggerated statements or conspiracy theories. I think truth wins in the long run."

Mostly agree with that but I'm not only having doubts but maybe we don't have the time to coddle our sensibilities.

The whole MMR causes autism fallacy was started in the 90s and thoroughly debunked over the next ten years. but here we are in the 2020s and people still believe it. And it has evolved and spread. For some anti Vax is a religion.

What we need is something that works as well but against meat.
 

feather

Forum Senior
Joined
May 8, 2021
Reaction score
298
Location
Midwest US
Lifestyle
  1. Other
I don't think either of those things work into the conspiracy theory definition.

And it might be worth noting that not all conspiracy theories are false. but its the false ones that spread the fastest and are dangerous.


Conspiracy Theory
  1. a belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for a circumstance or event.
    "they sought to account for the attacks in terms of a conspiracy theory"
I think you're right. Believing a lie is not a conspiracy theory. But it must have a lie concealed in preconceived notion. Why do humans think someone has to be behind the conspiracy? This is just blame shifting.
 

silva

Forum Legend
Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2012
Reaction score
14,267
Location
USA
Do I believe in a conspiracy theory?
Feather, doing introspection: "Did the whole wet market helping produce covid 19 change any minds?" The wet market like the factory farming, did change my mind. I have a preconceived notion that a wet market is like a factory farm. Both are humid and breed bacteria and viruses. Have you looked at the dishes sitting in water in the kitchen sink breeding bacteria and viruses and possibly mold, fungus, and mildew? Dr Greger pointed to studies about factory farming producing viruses that jump from animals to humans, then human to human transmission. Does that mean I am a believer in conspiracy theories? I guess it did. I guess I'm a complete idiot and believe in a conspiracy.

The wet market being in a foreign land didn't change my perception. It made sense because the humid conditions were common among both environments.

@silva, what is the problem with the vegans in it for health? What are WE saying, that other vegans are not saying?
The whole first part of your post I don't understand. I've never considered that a 'conspiracy theory' . Whole bunch of conspiracy theories about covids origins, but I find the science behind the zoonotropic transmission quite tracable, as it has been well researched
Don't know where you're going with that.....

I wasn't referring to vegans who follow wfpb diets, I was referring to non vegans who follow plant based diets that I often come across and are quite adament about NOT being vegan, and often more hostile to veganism than omnis
 

feather

Forum Senior
Joined
May 8, 2021
Reaction score
298
Location
Midwest US
Lifestyle
  1. Other
Okay, I'm not going anywhere with that. I was looking inside at how something I might believe might not be exactly the truth.

Referring to vegans who follow a wfpb diet, are vegan. How are they hostile? If they eat vegan then they are eating vegan even if they don't want to join that camp of "I'm vegan". Maybe they are but I don't see any distinction between a vegan and non-vegan for them, or us. What hostile intentions could they have, or why would they bother.

Everyone eats vegan, some people just eat more vegan sources than others. Some people supplement their diets with other sources. Some of those sources might be unhealthy. That is their choice. If you want to eat dirt go ahead, if you want to kill animals, go ahead, in the long run vegetables will probably be more satisfying.
 

silva

Forum Legend
Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2012
Reaction score
14,267
Location
USA
Okay, I'm not going anywhere with that. I was looking inside at how something I might believe might not be exactly the truth.

Referring to vegans who follow a wfpb diet, are vegan. How are they hostile? If they eat vegan then they are eating vegan even if they don't want to join that camp of "I'm vegan". Maybe they are but I don't see any distinction between a vegan and non-vegan for them, or us. What hostile intentions could they have, or why would they bother.

Everyone eats vegan, some people just eat more vegan sources than others. Some people supplement their diets with other sources. Some of those sources might be unhealthy. That is their choice. If you want to eat dirt go ahead, if you want to kill animals, go ahead, in the long run vegetables will probably be more satisfying.
Veganism isn't about diet though. People who don't eat pork don't identify as Kosher, or Halal 🙄
I joined a couple wfpb groups and discovered more animosity towards vegans than I have from omnis, that's all I'm saying. They make a huge point of their dislike of veganism--even those who identify as having a 'vegan' diet, just not the ethics or inclusion
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Calliegirl