Why do some vegans succeed and others fail?

[VeganRachel]

Hi all. We live in a time where there are humans called 'failed' vegans. Some of these humans make it known that
"veganism" is a failure and they go back to eating animals. My question is, why do you think this happens and what are the
solutions to share.

 

[Veganite]

IMO, I think newer vegans are more likely to fail. Well established vegans in my experience wouldn't consider such a thing. However, in my humble opinion this question has many variables.

Just to name a few:

1/ Personal willpower
2/ Environment (relates to willpower. Like who you live with, etc.)
3/ Goals & motivations (people change, goals change)
4/ Dislike of the foods or the skills to cook them (many people complain of GI issues when starting a vegan lifestyle)

There are many other reasons that come to mind why a person would give up the lifestyle, but again, I think this is more of a new vegan issue. Even for me as a former chef, learning to shop and cook vegan was a bit of a learning curve.

*

 

[Emma JC]

speaking only from my personal experience.... I think for many it is journey as we grow as people

I started learning about it back over 25-30 years ago and tried it and failed, tried many other options and failed and finally the right person at the right time motivated us and now it has been 8 years and no failing.

Some people just never grow in that direction and the ones that we hear about are the "influencers" who may be doing it to grow a channel etc and maybe some day they will go back to it in their journey and mean it for real next time.

Because it is more prevalent now, younger people are learning about veganism and compassion and so their journeys start earlier, thankfully.

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[Lou]

You got two really good answers, and I don't really have much to add but maybe this.

I guess part of the answer her has to do with semantics. Or labels. I touched on that in another thread.

How do you deal with ex-vegans? | Vegan Forum

And I guess the other part has to do with how you define "fail"

Also there are probably as many answers to your question as there are failed vegans.

I wonder if you can rephrase your question to elicit testimony from some people. A lot of people have had to quit being vegan - and then returned. So not technically a failed vegan but you might find their answers illuminating. I'd start you off with my one testimony but I don't think I have one.

Not that I am so perfect - it's just that I think you are vegan as long as you are trying. And I have never stopped trying. Also I was ten years long my journey before I learned what a vegan was.

 

[deadknight]

Hi all. We live in a time where there are humans called 'failed' vegans. Some of these humans make it known that
"veganism" is a failure and they go back to eating animals. My question is, why do you think this happens and what are the
solutions to share.

I think their perspective is not the same as that of vegans.
If someone considers veganism to be a kind of challenge, they are inevitably going to fail at one or another point.
They get disappointed, and - just to escape having bad feelings about themselves - say "that's not for me blah blah ancestors blah blah pwotein blah blah my blood group blah blah I'm a Leo blah blah" and they will probably never give it another try. Any excuse will do.

If somebody doesn't look at veganism as a challenge but an idea of doing as little harm as possible, they will not fail. Maybe they will make mistakes, or at the very beginning they will be tempted by their old habits every once in a while, but they will continue transitioning to veganism. It's all about attitude, I think.

 

[PTree15]

I think their perspective is not the same as that of vegans.
If someone considers veganism to be a kind of challenge, they are inevitably going to fail at one or another point.
They get disappointed, and - just to escape having bad feelings about themselves - say "that's not for me blah blah ancestors blah blah pwotein blah blah my blood group blah blah I'm a Leo blah blah" and they will probably never give it another try. Any excuse will do.

If somebody doesn't look at veganism as a challenge but an idea of doing as little harm as possible, they will not fail. Maybe they will make mistakes, or at the very beginning they will be tempted by their old habits every once in a while, but they will continue transitioning to veganism. It's all about attitude, I think.

I agree. I think the motivation behind going vegan is the key. So many people who try it are focused on only the diet with respect to health, losing weight, etc. And that doesn't always last. It's reducing the harm to animals (and the environment) that keeps me on the vegan path.

 

[deadknight]

I agree. I think the motivation behind going vegan is the key. So many people who try it are focused on only the diet with respect to health, losing weight, etc. And that doesn't always last. It's reducing the harm to animals (and the environment) that keeps me on the vegan path.

That's true, there are surprisingly many people who see veganism as just another diet. They don't seem to get it's more than that.
If they have purely egoistic reasons to "eat a vegan diet" - I want a better health, I want to lose a few pounds, me, me, ME! -, they are going to lose interest in it in the very moment they find out it doesn't serve them in the way they expected it to.

It's really good that you are motivated by - and, obviously devoted to - the desire to cause less harm. This is the way people in general should do it.

 

[Brian W]

I don't agree about motivation. I'm doing it for the animals and M is doing it for the environment. She is stronger than I and keeps me on track. I think we would like to think that motivation is thee key if we are emotionally invested in a position but there are no statistics to support this. I suggest two things: 1. An individual's general personal strength; 2. How much enjoyment an individual gets out of eating only plant foods. We are hardwired to eat things that we enjoy, not things that we don't.

 

[beancounter]

A lot of it has to do with a persons ability to find (and afford) vegan products. Also social pressure and family dynamics plays a role.

In the end, and movement toward veganism should be seen as a positive thing. It should be seen as a spectrum, not black and white, and an all or nothing mindset is not helpful.

 

[sugarhiccup]

One thing I've noticed over the years is the lack of support, real support, by vegans for the failed ones. The hostility and blaming and parroting of the same tired accusations , for example "You didn't try hard enough" and the eventual and lazy "You hate animals" and the ghosting is what turns people away from getting back on the horse in a sense. They feel they can't get help from their fellow brother and sister Vegans. It's sad.

In my experience some, not all, Vegans live in this dream world where if they keep saying it enough then it's true, meaning that everyone is the same in a sense and a Vegan diet works for all. People have so many food allergies these days and /or lack of money for all the Vegan food and good in depth medical care for a Vegan diet that they can't keep going and fail, or rather have to abandon the Vegan path. It seems that there are many, but not all, Vegans care more for the movement and animals than humans and won't face reality of Vegan failure because it will taint "the cause". The cause means more than people do. This irritates me to no end. If Vegans want to help the cause and help those that fail then Vegans need to admit the truth in that not every body is the same and people bodies have different needs. Then Vegans should then start putting their money where their mouth is and look to step up and actually HELP other vegans who have failed. Help pay for doctors visits, supplement and medical care, and vegan groceries so that people who want to be Vegan can find what their bodies need and continue on the Vegan path instead of having to hide and slink off into the darkness due to fear of retaliation and blaming by Vegans (who's Vegan diets are working for them).

This may sound harsh but it's the same wall I keep hitting over and over the past seventeen years. Things won't change unless reality is faced and acknowledged and spoken about in the public square that Vegan failure does happen and that Vegans need to step up and help other Vegans so they can find the right Vegan path for their bodies. There might be less Vegan failure if people can get some real life help.

 

[silva]

Life. There's a lot going on, a mixture of so many rights and wrongs of our own choices and the choices that circulate around us.
We can feel very strongly about our ethics, but it doesn't mean we don't sometimes dismiss them.
I'm always excepting those with families, limited incomes, responsibilities that put them in changing situations without prep time.
Condemning people for not being 100% can be very detrimental. I've known too many who don't even want to try because they don't want to face the guilt of failure. For those more emotional, empathetic people once they appreciate the horrors of the industry they can really become very vulnerable and OCD. Those who cry when they finish a granola bar and find honey on the wrapper....

While I stand firm on the definition of what is vegan or not, I don't condemn people for straying while doing their best. When I've had people go out of their way to accomodate me and I sense, or know, something has an egg or dairy ingredient I don't make a fuss, I'm not allergic and don't want them to feel it's too much to bother trying. I thank them and at another time will talk about what the other choices are. People know what they know and need to discover other ways without being criticised.

It took me at least 6 months to feel like eating plant based was 'natural', where I could just think of what I'll make next, what I'll buy next, what I'll eat without having to think 'how'. I avoided foods where cheese was what I liked about it--like Mexican foods. I also avoided meat subs that were too close, like seitan. I feel the transition was similar to quitting cigarettes, where I avoided social prompts. As much as I was well aware of how bad smoking was, as good as I felt when I got off for some time, I failed again and again. That first one tasted awful, but I'd have another till I was again hooked

It would help so much to spend more time normalizing meals without animal products rather than focus on 'veganism', IMO. People need to fully appreciate how normal, and really neccesary, to eat plant based. We're not our club wielding ancestors. We're mostly overweight, sedentary, and prone to diseases of our own making

 

[silva]

One thing I've noticed over the years is the lack of support, real support, by vegans for the failed ones. The hostility and blaming and parroting of the same tired accusations , for example "You didn't try hard enough" and the eventual and lazy "You hate animals" and the ghosting is what turns people away from getting back on the horse in a sense. They feel they can't get help from their fellow brother and sister Vegans. It's sad.

In my experience some, not all, Vegans live in this dream world where if they keep saying it enough then it's true, meaning that everyone is the same in a sense and a Vegan diet works for all. People have so many food allergies these days and /or lack of money for all the Vegan food and good in depth medical care for a Vegan diet that they can't keep going and fail, or rather have to abandon the Vegan path. It seems that there are many, but not all, Vegans care more for the movement and animals than humans and won't face reality of Vegan failure because it will taint "the cause". The cause means more than people do. This irritates me to no end. If Vegans want to help the cause and help those that fail then Vegans need to admit the truth in that not every body is the same and people bodies have different needs. Then Vegans should then start putting their money where their mouth is and look to step up and actually HELP other vegans who have failed. Help pay for doctors visits, supplement and medical care, and vegan groceries so that people who want to be Vegan can find what their bodies need and continue on the Vegan path instead of having to hide and slink off into the darkness due to fear of retaliation and blaming by Vegans (who's Vegan diets are working for them).

This may sound harsh but it's the same wall I keep hitting over and over the past seventeen years. Things won't change unless reality is faced and acknowledged and spoken about in the public square that Vegan failure does happen and that Vegans need to step up and help other Vegans so they can find the right Vegan path for their bodies. There might be less Vegan failure if people can get some real life help.

What are your struggles?

 

[Emma JC]

A lot of it has to do with a persons ability to find (and afford) vegan products. Also social pressure and family dynamics plays a role.

In the end, and movement toward veganism should be seen as a positive thing. It should be seen as a spectrum, not black and white, and an all or nothing mindset is not helpful.

I have posted this a few times and yet I think it is good to post it again - grocery stores have tons of vegan products by default, they are just not labelled as such:

• all produce aisles - fresh fruits and vegetables and herbs
• frozen aisles - frozen fruits, vegetables
• bean aisles - canned beans, dried beans, breakfast beans
• canned fruits and vegetables
• pasta aisle - most pastas and sauces, noodles
• condiments aisle - vinegars, olives, pickles, ketchup, soy sauce, hot sauces, mustard, tahini
• snack and bulk aisle - nuts, dried fruits, nutritional yeast, various grains, some potato chips
• cereal aisle - oatmeal, Spoon Size Shredded Wheat, Shredded Wheat etc
• beverage aisle - sparkling water, herbal teas, coffee
• bakery aisle - sprouted breads, pitas, tortillas
• dairy aisle - tofu, plant-based milks

and I do agree that it is a spectrum.

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[silva]

I have posted this a few times and yet I think it is good to post it again - grocery stores have tons of vegan products by default, they are just not labelled as such:

• all produce aisles - fresh fruits and vegetables and herbs
• frozen aisles - frozen fruits, vegetables
• bean aisles - canned beans, dried beans, breakfast beans
• canned fruits and vegetables
• pasta aisle - most pastas and sauces, noodles
• condiments aisle - vinegars, olives, pickles, ketchup, soy sauce, hot sauces, mustard, tahini
• snack and bulk aisle - nuts, dried fruits, nutritional yeast, various grains, some potato chips
• cereal aisle - oatmeal, Spoon Size Shredded Wheat, Shredded Wheat etc
• beverage aisle - sparkling water, herbal teas, coffee
• bakery aisle - sprouted breads, pitas, tortillas
• dairy aisle - tofu, plant-based milks

and I do agree that it is a spectrum.

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

Honestly, even if someone didn't concern themselves with animal products and just ate from these catagories (which by default would be vegetarian) they'd be doing great.

I also think people try and change their "type" of diet too much when going vegan. Like if ones diet is a healthy omnivore diet, like actually eating the USDA 'plate' with home cooked foods and no junk, going vegan wouldn't be nearly as hard. Too many go vegan for health, but from a junky processed omni diet to a more whole foods plant based diet it can cause some real gut discomfort.

 

[KellecoUK]

I'm not going to lie. I sometimes find it extremely tough. There are times when I'm hungry and walk past a takeaway and smell the cooking [anyone remember the Bisto Kids??]. But then I think of how I would feel if I was ever tempted . The thought of the extreme regret and disappointment I would feel is enough for me to keep walking by.

 

[g0rph]

IMO, the number one reason for relapsing is societal pressure.
I hope not, but I could relapse in my position. Nobody else in my circle is vegan. I have no vegan family, friends etc..
Sure, they "put up with it", but going out is stressful (and thankfully rare).
Also, around here, hunting and fishing are 2 of the most popular activities. All the holidays are meat based. Get-togethers in summer are BBQ based.
Adverts on TV are for cheap chicken,ham etc.



So in the end, I feel lonely, probably 90% of the time. Even when I am with people. At some point I guess I could break.

 

[beancounter]

I have posted this a few times and yet I think it is good to post it again - grocery stores have tons of vegan products by default, they are just not labelled as such:

• all produce aisles - fresh fruits and vegetables and herbs
• frozen aisles - frozen fruits, vegetables
• bean aisles - canned beans, dried beans, breakfast beans
• canned fruits and vegetables
• pasta aisle - most pastas and sauces, noodles
• condiments aisle - vinegars, olives, pickles, ketchup, soy sauce, hot sauces, mustard, tahini
• snack and bulk aisle - nuts, dried fruits, nutritional yeast, various grains, some potato chips
• cereal aisle - oatmeal, Spoon Size Shredded Wheat, Shredded Wheat etc
• beverage aisle - sparkling water, herbal teas, coffee
• bakery aisle - sprouted breads, pitas, tortillas
• dairy aisle - tofu, plant-based milks

and I do agree that it is a spectrum.

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

Sure, it's always possible to find some vegan products, but in many parts of the country, selection/variety is extremely limited.

 

[Emma JC]

Sure, it's always possible to find some vegan products, but in many parts of the country, selection/variety is extremely limited.

my point was that all of these products I have listed are not "vegan" by definitition they are "vegan" by default and therefore readily available everywhere all the time...

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[Lou]

@Emma JC is absolutely right.

I will admit that there is a bit of a learning curve. and in some cases, for example baked goods, one must make an effort with label reading. The tips and tricks that many vegan authors have explained are helpful but that also requires some effort. And changing your meal plans, cooking styles and learning new recipes also requires effort.

Maybe not as easy to do as falling down a mountain, but not that hard. How about not as hard as passing the written part of the driver's license exam.

I'm going to ignore "societal pressure" for now but just keep in mind that it pretty much up to each individual. Can I get away with saying it's only as important as you want it to be?

IMHO, there is too much emphasis on personal purity. Trying to be perfect drives people crazy. In school, 70% is passing. So a "passable" vegan only needs to eat vegan 2 out of 3 meals.

 

[beancounter]

my point was that all of these products I have listed are not "vegan" by definitition they are "vegan" by default and therefore readily available everywhere all the time...

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

You can find tofu and almond milk in Arkansas and South Dakota all the time?