I don't think that's the intended comparison. My understanding of the comparison is that doing something out of any sense of protecting one's self from some event, does not necessarily increase the likelihood of said event.
Pre-Nups for Ordinary People
- Thread starter Lord Snot
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I don't think that's the intended comparison. My understanding of the comparison is that doing something out of any sense of protecting one's self from some event, does not necessarily increase the likelihood of said event.
Pickle Juice
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One does not have complete control over marriage. You can only control your actions, not the actions of others.
In that sense, I wouldn't relate it to something such as preparing for an earthquake, but relate it to interactions with other people, at least if I was trying to make an analogy or comparison.
Although in terms of the increased likelihood of divorce with pre-nups, I've heard that's a common misconception, but would be interested in seeing studies indicating otherwise.
Possibly, but I disagree. They might also be the type who had a difficult time in the past and while they are (again) committed, they want some kind of insurance this time around. Also possible is that they approach the situation, marriage, differently than you, not that they would bail, but just that they want to be clear on what happens should divorce arise.
My understanding of prenuptial agreements is that they aren't just about dividing up assets that exist prior to marriage, it can go beyond that. So I'm not willing to say that anyone suggesting it is ready to bail at the first sign of trouble.
Freesia
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Marriage is more than hearts and flowers, it's a social and economic contract. But I do understand your sentiment.
It's not, it's integral. It's part of the commitment one makes when one gets married. It's also why they can be so messy to get out of.
.How many of you have seen the list of 1049 federal marriage rights? These are the rights that advocates of gay marriage are fighting for.
link: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04353r.pdf
Now imagine that your fiance wants you to waive many of those rights. And your fiance isn't going to give you anything in return for waiving your rights, except fulfill the promise they already made to marry you.
As Laurie Israel puts it:
link: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04353r.pdf
Now imagine that your fiance wants you to waive many of those rights. And your fiance isn't going to give you anything in return for waiving your rights, except fulfill the promise they already made to marry you.
As Laurie Israel puts it:
link: http://www.ivkdlaw.com/the-firm/our...en-things-i-hate-about-prenuptial-agreements/
das_nut
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Sometimes you don't even have complete control of your own actions.
I knew a guy, a married guy, who had a stroke. Spent months in the hospital. Afterwards, he was a different preson. Not completely different, but not the same person he was before.
His wife ended up leaving him years later because the stress became too great.
I don't know if she was wrong or right to do so. But its possible for someone to change drastically, and sometimes, the person to change is yourself.
Marriage takes two people willing to make it work. As soon as one person doesn't want to make it work, there's serious problems.
Perhaps some of this pre-nup hate in this thread are from people who don't want to admit the lack of complete control over their lives.
Freesia
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Or perhaps the amount of hate towards not having a pre nup is from those who wont admit that even with a pre nup they could be hurt beyond reason by their partner in ways they cant insure with fancy lawyers and sheaves of paper.
K-II
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I doubt anybody cares enough to 'hate' that other people don't sign a contract. What you do with your self/assets isn't going to cause any of us harm...
I do not have a prenup and I do not hate or like not having a prenup, but I can understand why someone might want one. I also do not think that people wanting a prenup aren't willing to admit they can still be hurt beyond reason. Some perhaps, but that doesn't mean all.
yakherder
老外
Had a similar thing happen to a cousin of mine. He suffered a head injury and it somehow made him super aggressive and verbally abusive. His wife tried to help him recover, but the change was drastic and permanent. She ended up leaving him to protect her own sanity, which I completely understand.
kazyeeqen
Superb Owl
I don't like blaming people for failing marriage, and that's what I feel like you are doing.
You are painting the whole situation much more negatively than it necessarily is, and of course even I would be opposed to some horrible scenario like that. But that's not really what a pre-nup is, or at least what it always is.
You are painting the whole situation much more negatively than it necessarily is, and of course even I would be opposed to some horrible scenario like that. But that's not really what a pre-nup is, or at least what it always is.
Yeah, I don't care who enters into a prenup and who doesn't. I certainly would if I had it to do over again, but the messes other people end up in don't affect me, except in the cases of close family members.
The sense of judgment and some over the top language and emotion is all coming from some of the anti-prenup faction, which I find interesting.
No, no, no, no. They are saying in the event we fail lets decide up front what an equitable split will be. That's why each party gets their own legal counsel. If they can't decide what's equitable up front or come to an agreement on this... well then don't get married and problem solved.
For a marriage to work it takes both parties to be committed through thick and thin, the dating/courtship period ought to be a time for the parties involved to evaluate compatibility in all aspects as well as getting a gauge on how committed each are to making it work. The process isn't perfect, nor does everyone look at such things pragmatically when romance is ruling behaviors and they get married anyway... which is IMO why marriages fail. A person only has control over his/her actions, a marriage takes two and if one of the parties walks there is not a damn thing the other can do no matter how committed they are.
Have you ever used lawyers to come up with agreements that involve very human issues? The kinds of things many lawyers do can easily jeapardize human relationships. For example, lawyers often use a private investigator to make sure the other party or parties are disclosing all the facts. The mere fact that a PI is digging up dirt can really damage any trust built between the parties. It can be hard to repair that kind of thing.
In theory it makes sense that both parties are represented by legal counsel and you come together and draft an agreement. In reality, that's a tricky thing to do without hurting feelings and creating problems. The vast majority of people see lawyers and contracts and adversarial. This is why it might make more sense, if you feel you need a prenup, to use a mediator instead.
But again, prenups really aren't necessary for "ordinary people." Premarital counseling, that includes financial counseling, is probably a better idea.
