Philosophy Do you follow the rules?

[Second Summer]

A couple of viewpoints on this:

"The only reason to follow a rule is if it serves you to do so. I know that rubs moral idealists the wrong way, but all rules are arbitrary anyway, and they were made up by people in a position of power, in order to serve themselves." (From a comment on a blog called riskology.co.)

People need to follow rules to avoid chaos. A good example is traffic rules. A complex society needs complex rules to function. It goes without saying that the people in a complex society needs to actually follow the rules as well.

People need to follow rules to avoid punishment.

Do you generally follow "the rules" of society / your social group? (Written and unwritten.) To what extent do you follow rules? Do you consider yourself to be a moral idealist? (Chances are you are one if you're a veg*n for ethical reasons!)

 

[beancounter]

Despite what IS just wrote, you WILL follow the rules of this board......

No exceptions.

 

[beancounter]

Yes, I agree with much of what you said, but I think rules are a good thing if they help society as a whole.

If they only serve to benefit a specific group, then personally I wouldn't feel obligated to follow them.

 

[KLS52]

It depends on the rule. I have been known to break a few. I will break driving rules if it doesn't cause danger to someone else...and if I'm pretty sure I won't get caught. I will slow down and roll through a stop sign when no other cars are in sight. I have been known to make my own parking spot on occasion, not in a clearly marked no parking zone, though. I would/have never gone through a red light.

 

[Mr Crunchy]

"Oh, but it's hard to live by the rules
I never could and still never do
The rules and such never bothered you
You call the shots and they follow"

- The Pretenders, Talk of the Town

 

[Clueless Git]

Rules are for idiots NOT for people with brains.

People with brains always follow the rules though.

That's because people with brains know the consequences of idiots trying to copy them.

 

[Second Summer]

I used to think I ought to adhere to Kant's Categorical Imperative which can be expressed as:

"Always act in such a way that you would be willing for it to become a general law that everyone else should do the same in the same situation."

However, recently I have adopted a slightly more "pirate"-like attitude. I don't mean "pirate" as in software piracy, but more the attitude that I first and foremost need to take care of myself and my own well-being (and that of my family), and just accept that sometimes that will come into conflict with other people's interests.

For example: I'm walking on a path along a road with polluting and noisy cars. I notice next to the path is a nice, green lawn. If I walked on the lawn, I could be far enough away from the cars that they wouldn't bother me so much. But everyone else is walking on the path. If everyone were to venture onto the grass, it would soon become a muddy bog. Well, I figure my well-being is more important, and most of those other people are probably much too chicken to break social conventions anyway, so the grass will be fine. I walk on the grass. I'm happy. Kant is turning in his grave.

 

[PTree15]

I would say I follow the rules most of the time, but I, too, have been known to break a few, mostly for my own selfish reasons (like downloading from torrent sites a TV show that I missed on the day it aired). I try to make sure I'm not hurting anyone else in the process, though.

 

[Clueless Git]

... I try to make sure I'm not hurting anyone else in the process, though.

Every time you break a rule, PTree, a baby angel in heaven dies ..



Note to mods: Can we have a dead baby angel smilie, plz!

 

[SummerRain]

I'm definitely an idealist. I follow the rules (pretty strictly) if I think that they make sense/there's a reason for them, and ignore them if I don't (and there aren't any major consequences).

I know lots of people, inc my family, think I'm a real square because I think things like traveling without a train ticket, or downloading music without paying is stealing and so I wont do it. The other day I wasn't charged for my prescription so I went back and told them. I try to do what I think is right, even if it seems like a small thing.

But equally, if the only reason to follow a rule is social convention/in somebody elses interest (i.e. just one person/a group of peoples interest) I'm happy to ignore it and will openly ignore it.

I used to think I ought to adhere to Kant's Categorical Imperative which can be expressed as:
"Always act in such a way that you would be willing for it to become a general law that everyone else should do the same in the same situation."

I pretty much do this actually. It's a long time since I did philosophy, but I guess Kant stuck, because without thinking about it in terms of Kant that's what I tend to think if I'm not sure if I should do something. If everyone did this, what would happen? If it's not okay, then I shouldn't do it.

 

[Clueless Git]

I tend to think if I'm not sure if I should do something. If everyone did this, what would happen? If it's not okay, then I shouldn't do it.

Sound philosophy there, SR!

 

[Second Summer]

I know lots of people, inc my family, think I'm a real square because I think things like traveling without a train ticket, or downloading music without paying is stealing and so I wont do it. The other day I wasn't charged for my prescription so I went back and told them. I try to do what I think is right, even if it seems like a small thing.

But equally, if the only reason to follow a rule is social convention/in somebody elses interest (i.e. just one person/a group of peoples interest) I'm happy to ignore it and will openly ignore it.

I think if someone forgot to charge me when shopping in some giant, faceless, capitalist chain store, .... Well, I might just forget to pay. Let's face it, these stores are monsters. Their only guiding principle is to get the largest possible profit. They're using all their might, all their lawyers, ad makers and public relations people to get it their way: to get rid of competitors, random uppity councils, community groups, endangered species.

If everyone did this, what would happen? If it's not okay, then I shouldn't do it.

Would everyone do it though? Realistically, a lot of people will not be in the exact same circumstances. Like in my example with walking on the lawn, a lot of people will be wearing too posh or high-heeled shoes, or will be too bound by social conventions.

 

[Cerebellion]

I can't really say that I follow specific rules, but I do follow people and their rules as long as I'm around them. For example, I rent a room from friends and therefore follow the rules of their house. If I don't agree with the rule, we talk about the reasoning behind it and go from there. Sometimes it can be changed, sometimes I put on my big boy pants and just do it.
If alone, I do what I think is the most efficient for me, regardless of what the 'official' rule is about it. If I can do something against the 'rules' that doesn't hurt anyone else and gets what I'm after, I'll do it in a second and will have no moral conundrum about it. I've been in survival mode entirely too long to worry that I may feel bad about something.

 

[SummerRain]

I think if someone forgot to charge me when shopping in some giant, faceless, capitalist chain store, .... Well, I might just forget to pay. Let's face it, these stores are monsters. Their only guiding principle is to get the largest possible profit. They're using all their might, all their lawyers, ad makers and public relations people to get it their way: to get rid of competitors, random uppity councils, community groups, endangered species.

I don't think it's right to steal from bad people, or bad companies, or moral-less people, or moral-less companies. If I really think they're an immoral company, maybe I shouldn't shop there. We all have individual choices, trying to push responsibility for those choices onto others is just looking for someone to blame. IMO.

Would everyone do it though? Realistically, a lot of people will not be in the exact same circumstances. Like in my example with walking on the lawn, a lot of people will be wearing too posh or high-heeled shoes, or will be too bound by social conventions.

I don't really think your lawn example is really a moral situation. But I don't think it really matters if everyone would do it, I think it's just a good guide for thinking about the consequences of actions, and showing you what those consequences are in a magnified way.

 

[Second Summer]

I don't think it's right to steal from bad people, or bad companies, or moral-less people, or moral-less companies. If I really think they're an immoral company, maybe I shouldn't shop there. We all have individual choices, trying to push responsibility for those choices onto others is just looking for someone to blame. IMO.

Yes, ideally I shouldn't shop there, but unfortunately the alternatives aren't any better. In the capitalist system, the inevitable result is that businesses have to turn into profit-seeking monsters. Small independent businesses will either be out-competed so they have to shut down, taken over by bigger companies, or they have to grow and become profit-seeking monsters themselves.

I don't really think your lawn example is really a moral situation. But I don't think it really matters if everyone would do it, I think it's just a good guide for thinking about the consequences of actions, and showing you what those consequences are in a magnified way.

It seems like a moral situation to me. It could be compared to e.g. our use of resources. Just me walking on the grass is sustainable. Everyone walking there is not.

Why doesn't it matter whether everyone does it?

 

[yakherder]

Modern life requires us to act in a way that goes against our evolved instincts. Civilization sprang up and materialized into what it is today in an extremely short period of time, evolutionarily speaking. That's why we have rules, as well as culture. Kind of a replacement for our obsolete genetic predispositions.

I follow most of them out of a sense of social responsibility, but I'm more than willing to break them if I feel I have a good reason to do so. My relationship with rules is rational, not emotional.

 

[cornsail]

If I consider a law immoral or I have strong disagreement with it then I won't follow it for the sake of following it. I might follow it to avoid facing consequences under certain circumstances.

 

[Mikkel]

I follow the laws quite stricktly. One of the main reasons are ofcause that I will loose my job if I don't.

Traffic rules are the things I believe people brake the most. But after I have talked myself out about ten tickets, I have started to follow them too quite stricked. Some day I'll meet a cop that remember that I've promised to never drive that fast anymore.

 

[shyvas]

I follow the laws quite stricktly. One of the main reasons are ofcause that I will loose my job if I don't.

Traffic rules are the things I believe people brake the most. But after I have talked myself out about ten tickets, I have started to follow them too quite stricked. Some day I'll meet a cop that remember that I've promised to never drive that fast anymore.

Speeding is one factor that contributes to serious injury and death on European roads. I think that every driver should stick to the rules.

 

[Blobbenstein]

20mph zones are becoming popular in the UK, at the moment...

It might be good, if people follow those speed limits....but I am worried that cars won't bunch up like they do at 30mph limits and make it harder to cross the road.....but accidents are far less likely to be fatal at 20mph.