Dazed and Confused...

[Sunny]

Beans and the Second-Meal Effect

nutritionfacts.org

I kinda hesitate to recommend this book for anyone who may obsess about things, but Dr Gregers "How Not to Diet" is just stuffed with documented research on everything having to do with the diets of human beings. Our evolution, history, culture, genetics, environment, and the foods themselves. It also talks a lot about our psychological relationship with food

I feel/felt like I was obsessing about what I ate but I didn't begin that way and certainly wasn't that way previously but after a long while reading info such as the following statements from this post for example, perhaps it is easier to see how a person can start to feel insecure about their food intake, wondering if they are getting it right and if it is a reasonable "diet" when there is so much to consider:

"...we have to make the conversion to DHA from proper ratios of omega 3 & 6 and I believe some 9"

"..Amino acids are not stored in the body. The individual amino acids are broken down into pyruvate, acetyl CoA, or intermediates of the Krebs cycle, and used for energy or for lipogenesis reactions to be stored as fats."

..."If you delve into the detail, protein when digested is broken down into amino acids. These amino acids are reconstituted again to create proteins when needed - for repairing or building muscle, for instance - but what isn't needed immediately to do this is denatured (i.e. the nitrogen removed and excreted as you mention) and then converted into carbohydrates and stored as glycogen."

.."In CronOmeter, I almost. always came out low on Magnesium and Potassium. So now I make a bigger effort to include potatoes I my diet"

Obviously, these are just a few examples of the info about vegan eating. I am playing devil's advocate here to some extent as I suspect deep down that there are really perhaps a handful or so of things to learn about a new way of eating and the rest is available for those that are looking for more detailed info or those interested in the science.

Something I am trying to get my head around is this: Can we just learn about vegan eating and then move on, never looking again at number crunching, or having to be concerned that we are getting enough of everything? That is what I want. I want it to be as easy as it was to eat (minus restaurant offerings of course ) before going vegan. If we are eating a varied vegan diet can we just leave it at that or do we, as vegans, need to be more aware of each of our nutritional requirements than a non-vegan would be?

(sorry, I have no idea how to do those clever individual quotes )

 

[Sunny]

Where Is Cholesterol Found?

www.healthline.com

Cholesterol is a fatty substance that travels through your blood. Your liver makes all the cholesterol your body needs, but you can also take in cholesterol through the foods you eat.

Where does cholesterol come from?​

Cholesterol in your body comes from two main sources: your liver and your diet.

Your liver, other organs, and other cells in your body produce about 80 percent of the cholesterol in your blood.

The other 20 percent of cholesterol in your body is affected by the foods you eat. Foods high in trans and saturated fats can contribute to unhealthy cholesterol levels.

Yes, there was stuff on that page that was pretty easy to "de-bunk" and this is one of them. We do need some cholesterol but not the kind that comes from animals I would guess. There is a link somewhere on here to a blog post about a vegan lady whose cholesterol was too low and it caused her some issues. I am assuming it was healthy cholesterol (HDL) .
Must edit because it may not have been HDL she was short on. We need some LDL and she may not have had that even though it is very rare. I think coconut products have that type pf saturated fats.

 

[silva]

Something I am trying to get my head around is this: Can we just learn about vegan eating and then move on, never looking again at number crunching, or having to be concerned that we are getting enough of everything? That is what I want. I want it to be as easy as it was to eat (minus restaurant offerings of course ) before going vegan. If we are eating a varied vegan diet can we just leave it at that or do we, as vegans, need to be more aware of each of our nutritional requirements than a non-vegan would be?

(sorry, I have no idea how to do those clever individual quotes )

Absolutely! The only reason omnivores don't overthink is because it's been deemed the 'normal' diet--with all it's flaws!
Think if it were reversed--a vegan diet was the norm and eating meat dairy and eggs were unusual

It isn't that vegans need to track, or worry, it's that we need to get used to what we eat!
It really isn't that different from an omni who eats junk food compared to one that eats healthy. In order to eat a healthy balanced diet as an omnivore isn't any different than eating that as a vegan! Junk food is bad in either case

Going vegan is different in that its not the norm, so many people don't know how to "think" about how they'll eat. There is so much about plant based diets now it's not hard to know, just takes time to adjust.

My favorite recomendations are:

Amazon.com

Dr Gregers daily dozen
It isn't like you need to be as restrictive, but the DD gives you the optimum best!

 

[Lou]

60 is your carbs? The "layout" of mine is Protein, Carbs and Fats

Yeah. oh I should have said 20/60/20

People on the raw diet get something like 10/80/10

The Zone Diet which is for athletes is something like 30/40/30.

meat eaters probably get something like 25/50/25

 

[Lou]

I have a little love affair with California despite any negs.
How wonderful about Colleen- what a coincidence! I didn't realise how publicly active she was/is. ♥

She organized vegan travel thingies quite often, I think her next trip is to France. You could meet up with her there.

 

[silva]

Yeah. oh I should have said 20/60/20

People on the raw diet get something like 10/80/10

The Zone Diet which is for athletes is something like 30/40/30.

meat eaters probably get something like 25/50/25

I know it as Carbs/Protein/Fat--like the 80/10/10 raw diets
Maybe this is different in other countries and we should specify?

 

[500channelsurfer]

I found this: NutraVege™ Omega-3, Plant Based, Liquid Gels, Fresh Mint / 30 softgels

 

[Lou]

I know it as Carbs/Protein/Fat--like the 80/10/10 raw diets
Maybe this is different in other countries and we should specify?

I think maybe it's just the way CronOmeter does it.
Their settings is P/C/F
but you're right. Raw guys say 80/10/10
Zone guys say 40/30/30
So I think except for Chronometer its carbs protein fat, or is it carbs fat protein??

 

[bEt]

I am an advocate of getting my vitamins and minerals through food sources as much as possible. But even saying "as much as possible" causes me concern because any way of eating has to provide all we need without supplementing (again, aside from B12) right?

Why?

 

[bEt]

I remind myself that when I was younger, before going vegan, I took a multi-vitamin. When I was a child, I was given vitamin C and mutli vitamins. I would have to take iron sometimes too- so it doesn't mean a vegan diet is worse than an omni diet-

That makes sense to me, too.

 

[majorbloodnok]

…
Obviously, these are just a few examples of the info about vegan eating.
…
Something I am trying to get my head around is this: Can we just learn about vegan eating and then move on, never looking again at number crunching, or having to be concerned that we are getting enough of everything? That is what I want. I want it to be as easy as it was to eat (minus restaurant offerings of course ) before going vegan. If we are eating a varied vegan diet can we just leave it at that or do we, as vegans, need to be more aware of each of our nutritional requirements than a non-vegan would be?
…

Actually those are not examples of what one needs to know about vegan eating; Lou and I got sidetracked down our own little rabbit hole and probably should have stayed a bit more focused. Even so, no-one - vegan or otherwise - actually needs to know it; it’s just extra info for anyone interested.

The point I’ve been trying to put across is that you should indeed just get on and eat without worrying about the detail, with the one exception of taking the two or three well publicised supplements that we’ve already discussed. All the detail has only been meant to back that up. This point I’m trying to convey is also relevant whether we’re talking about a vegan diet or a weight loss diet or both.

 

[Sunny]

Absolutely! The only reason omnivores don't overthink is because it's been deemed the 'normal' diet--with all it's flaws!
Think if it were reversed--a vegan diet was the norm and eating meat dairy and eggs were unusual

It isn't that vegans need to track, or worry, it's that we need to get used to what we eat!
It really isn't that different from an omni who eats junk food compared to one that eats healthy. In order to eat a healthy balanced diet as an omnivore isn't any different than eating that as a vegan! Junk food is bad in either case

Going vegan is different in that its not the norm, so many people don't know how to "think" about how they'll eat. There is so much about plant based diets now it's not hard to know, just takes time to adjust.

My favorite recomendations are:

Amazon.com

Dr Gregers daily dozen
It isn't like you need to be as restrictive, but the DD gives you the optimum best!

This is exactly what I thought and hoped. ♥ Thank you.

 

[Sunny]

Yeah. oh I should have said 20/60/20

People on the raw diet get something like 10/80/10

The Zone Diet which is for athletes is something like 30/40/30.

meat eaters probably get something like 25/50/25

Ok, mine is 25/45/30

 

[Sunny]

I know it as Carbs/Protein/Fat--like the 80/10/10 raw diets
Maybe this is different in other countries and we should specify?

I just checked to see if in my account details there was anything to specify my country but I can't find anything. Do you have anything on yours? Mine is definitely protein/carbs/fats.

 

[Sunny]

Why?

I am not so sure- maybe because otherwise, it might suggest that the "diet" is not natural or not realistic or not sustainable. ?

 

[majorbloodnok]

I am not so sure- maybe because otherwise, it might suggest that the "diet" is not natural or not realistic or not sustainable. ?

That’s certainly a message being put forward by some with a vested interest, but it’s patently absurd - and this is an omnivore saying this!

If you look historically, our hunter-gatherer ancestors used plant-based food for subsistence and meat was only a supplement on the sporadic occasions it was available. Moving forward to early AD times, the prevailing diet even for tribe chiefs was largely vegetarian with meat being for special occasions. Even in Victorian times the idea of a Sunday roast was that meat was expensive and so seen as a highlight meal rather than a staple.

It’s only in recent times meat has become available cheaply enough to be regarded as a core component of one’s diet. That flies in the face of any argument suggesting a diet without animal products is unrealistic or unsustainable.

 

[Sunny]

That’s certainly a message being put forward by some with a vested interest, but it’s patently absurd - and this is an omnivore saying this!

If you look historically, our hunter-gatherer ancestors used plant-based food for subsistence and meat was only a supplement on the sporadic occasions it was available. Moving forward to early AD times, the prevailing diet even for tribe chiefs was largely vegetarian with meat being for special occasions. Even in Victorian times the idea of a Sunday roast was that meat was expensive and so seen as a highlight meal rather than a staple.

It’s only in recent times meat has become available cheaply enough to be regarded as a core component of one’s diet. That flies in the face of any argument suggesting a diet without animal products is unrealistic or unsustainable.

Meat eaters will say this kind of thing to me, such as the GP I mentioned above who told me how deficient I would be in so many nutrients because of being vegan. I do usually reply with the vitamins I was given as a child despite eating animal products back then and with some things such as you have just mentioned. Since all this worry started, with the inability to get any help with a health issue and the subsequent intense "research" I began to worry and question myself.

 

[bEt]

I don't know about this supplement question. I feel like supplements are actually pretty natural, like they are just a shortcut to get a little more of what we need.

What could be unnatural about getting some extra B vitamins from a special yeast like nutritional yeast?

Is taking extra iron (if I need it, since I seem to be a person with a high need for this) as iron, instead of as the blood of an animal, less natural?

Is taking extra zinc as zinc, instead of as the flesh of a fish, less natural?

(by the way, I know plant foods have iron and zinc. Please don't be too mad at me about that)

I don't want to struggle and suffer with infection, exposure to cold, or any of the other things my ancestors may have succumbed to. So I take advantage of modern conveniences like a gas-heated abode and any supplements that will keep me feeling well. I enjoy fresh fruit and also take some C. Why not?

Is it possible that even someone on a very good diet can benefit from a little boost? Or even a big boost?

How could any diet ever be "perfect"?

 

[majorbloodnok]

…
How could any diet ever be "perfect"?

Quite right; it can’t.

Taking iron as iron isn’t great since your body can’t process it well in that form. However, there’s nowt unnatural with eating some broccoli instead of some black pudding.

Let’s also remember that vitamin supplements still have natural bases in the same way many medicines are only refined herbal extracts. Yes, I’m simplifying somewhat, but just because you’re taking a pill doesn’t mean it’s completely artificial and unhealthy.

 

[Lou]

I just checked to see if in my account details there was anything to specify my country but I can't find anything. Do you have anything on yours? Mine is definitely protein/carbs/fats.

I don't think it's a regional thing. More of a convention than a rule. but the p/c/f seems to be a CronOmeter thing. I did a googling and almost everyone else puts carbs first.