Vegans and abortion

[peacefulveglady]

Do you all understand if people stopped having children then there will be no one left? Abortion is killing an innocent baby out of a sacred place called the womb. How can you protest a life of a cow or animal from slaughter but not an innnocent little baby? When people die off they are replaced by brand new life called a newborn baby. I am shocked that all vegans support this evil procidure to slaughter innocent lives inside a mothers womb because its an inconvience or another mouth to feed or saying its hurting the environment. Do not say this is all about health care for woman. If you need an abortion it should be out of pocket and only if there is emergnacies.

 

[Lou]

Do you all understand if people stopped having children then there will be no one left?

That is unreasonable conclusion. Also not what is being discussed here. We are talking about whether or not vegans should have babies.
However, I know its controversial but limiting population growth is one of the best things we can do for the environment. The ZPG movement suggests less than 2 children per couple. China found that even that was not sustainable and mandated no more than one. No one reasonable is suggesting zero children.

Abortion is killing an innocent baby out of a sacred place called the womb. How can you protest a life of a cow or animal from slaughter but not an innnocent little baby? When people die off they are replaced by brand new life called a newborn baby. I am shocked that all vegans support this evil procidure to slaughter innocent lives inside a mothers womb because its an inconvience or another mouth to feed or saying its hurting the environment. Do not say this is all about health care for woman. If you need an abortion it should be out of pocket and only if there is emergnacies.

To paraphrase Obama, no one is Pro Abortion.
To be Pro choice may not seem to be very vegan but I think its just a small step from being pro animal rights to being pro-women rights.
I have no evidence on this - maybe I can look it up . but I doubt there are many women who seek getting abortions because its an inconvenience or because they are pro-environment.
Not meaning to totally derail this discussion but the laws being proposed in many states would eliminate abortions for many women - even if the pregnancy is from rape. and even if the pregnancy endangers a human life.

 

[peacefulveglady]

That is unreasonable conclusion. Also not what is being discussed here. We are talking about whether or not vegans should have babies.
However, I know its controversial but limiting population growth is one of the best things we can do for the environment. The ZPG movement suggests less than 2 children per couple. China found that even that was not sustainable and mandated no more than one. No one reasonable is suggesting zero children.

To paraphrase Obama, no one is Pro Abortion.
To be Pro choice may not seem to be very vegan but I think its just a small step from being pro animal rights to being pro-women rights.
I have no evidence on this - maybe I can look it up . but I doubt there are many women who seek getting abortions because its an inconvenience or because they are pro-environment.
Not meaning to totally derail this discussion but the laws being proposed in many states would eliminate abortions for many women - even if the pregnancy is from rape. and even if the pregnancy endangers a human life.

That is good thing to eliminate most abortions do you see it still taking a life? How can you be so pro life to save an animal but not pro life to save a small precious new life? I am not saying there are health emergencies that will terminate a pregnancy however there are to many just going get one because of an inconvenience a child will make or they do not have money to have one. Not having sex is best approach not bring children into the world.

 

[Lou]

That is good thing to eliminate most abortions do you see it still taking a life? How can you be so pro life to save an animal but not pro life to save a small precious new life? I am not saying there are health emergencies that will terminate a pregnancy however there are to many just going get one because of an inconvenience a child will make or they do not have money to have one. Not having sex is best approach not bring children into the world.

Well.... I'm a guy so I'm never going to need an abortion. So it pretty much is just theoretical. However I'm not in favor of anyone getting an abortion - I am not pro-abortion.
However, and maybe especially cause I'm a guy, I would never presume to tell a woman she can't have an abortion. To paraphrase a Pro-choice slogan, it's her body - it's her choice.

 

[FlandersOD]

That is good thing to eliminate most abortions do you see it still taking a life?

A fetus, in about 2nd trimester is not yet in biologically a baby, while in about first trimester it's developing from the embryonic stage into the fetal stage.

How can you be so pro life to save an animal

I don't view animals as intrinsically inferior at all;

but not pro life to save a small precious new life?

Not yet a life;

I am not saying there are health emergencies that will terminate a pregnancy however there are to many just going get one because of an inconvenience a child will make

I think ethnically wrong to insist that should be born and then fail to provide in at-least as adequate quality of life being sent to an orphanage or growing up with parents that don't love/want them or are unable to take care of them.

or they do not have money to have one.

that's a legitimate reason to abort an embryo.

Not having sex is best approach not bring children into the world.

you'd be more honest if you said it was about faith or religion and everyone knows it.

 

[Danielle]

Telling people not to have sex will not work. I personally need my dose of it or I get grumpy lol
If I do manage to have an iud baby I think I'll keep it, sure might be rough but so was my childhood.

 

[peacefulveglady]

A fetus, in about 2nd trimester is not yet in biologically a baby, while in about first trimester it's developing from the embryonic stage into the fetal stage.

I don't view animals as intrinsically inferior at all;

Not yet a life;

I think ethnically wrong to insist that should be born and then fail to provide in at-least as adequate quality of life being sent to an orphanage or growing up with parents that don't love/want them or are unable to take care of them.

that's a legitimate reason to abort an embryo.

you'd be more honest if you said it was about faith or religion and everyone knows it.

If you google unborn baby pictures you will see a detailed explanation at each stage during pregnancy from conception to birth that its a growing baby. Its a life as its starts having a heart at 9 days after conception.

If no one wants a pregnancy keep you’re pants on and your legs closed.

I think its sad that certain vegans wants to keep animals to be slaughtered and prevent their lives to end but they do not want to stand up to a living innocent life that gets violated in the most sacred place the womb. Did you know that parents are told to abort a baby if its deformed or downs symdrone and if the parents are disabled and low income? You do not need bunch of money to have children and you do not need to be fully healthy.

 

[Sax]

If no one wants a pregnancy keep you’re pants on and your legs closed.

That's not a realistic solution. It's just $lut-shaming women with unwanted pregnancies as if they got what they deserved.

 

[peacefulveglady]

That's not a realistic solution. It's just $lut-shaming women with unwanted pregnancies as if they got what they deserved.

No its not how do you think a baby gets concieved? By having sex that is why we have sex organs for so we produce an offspring and new life.

 

[Deleted member 14798]

Sex is free, natural, emotional, and pleasurable so it will happen.
Some people take precautions yet still pregnancy happens.
Sometimes a pregnancy results due to an attack
An embryo is dependent upon on the host.
Stand in line to take an embryo into your body other than being aborted when technology gets there regularly.
Stand in line to adopt children, not only babies, to help lessen the abortion rate. Funny not as many naysayers willing to adopt or help others for years.
Sometimes women don't learn about a pregnancy early into it.
Sometimes it's about economics.
Sometimes a women has to wait until they have the funds & often travel expenses in some areas.
Back alley type abortions can kill those already born.
Sometimes it's about the health of the fetus and/or pregnant woman.

I know an older couple who were about to have their first child together but discovered all sorts of defects during an ultrasound. They were devasted. Making her continue with the pregnancy would have been cruel.

I know a younger couple whose fetus died inside the mother so to continue on with the pregnancy would have been cruel & possibly harmful to her.
Barbara Eden had such a situation. She had no option at that time but to carry to term all the while having a constant reminder and trying to be kind to others asking about her pregnancy.

I know a young couple who was excited to be having their first child but a test past the halfway mark proved the fetus had a rare condition which meant a very short & painful life if brought to term.

There are various reasons why someone makes such a decision. It's each pregnant woman's decision to make. Only try to make decisions for others if you're okay with them butting into your life and making serious decisions for you.

 

[silva]

The movement to remove a womans right to her own body is so far from "pro-life".
Try being pro-life in enacting universal health care, police reform, income disparity, lgbt rights, immigration reform.....

and where exactly is all the birth control for men? where is the push for those largely reversible vasectomies?
Where is the push for mandatory 18 year felony prison terms for rape that has the potential of pregency?
Since women have to create the baby for 9 months why was never required that the father be financially responsible for that duration?

I don't have time nor inclination to go any further, but the question of how anyone can call themselves pro-life when what they want is to negate a womans bodily autonomy goes unanswered

And to anyone using religion as their reasoning--it's quite decieteful to say you believe a God has higher powers and we should let God take control, then try and play God for others.
My grandmother was a devout Christian Catholic and knew that pro-life goals should be about life--and it was up to the individual to choose the best path for themselves, and leave it up to God

 

[peacefulveglady]

Sex is free, natural, emotional, and pleasurable so it will happen.
Some people take precautions yet still pregnancy happens.
Sometimes a pregnancy results due to an attack
An embryo is dependent upon on the host.
Stand in line to take an embryo into your body other than being aborted when technology gets there regularly.
Stand in line to adopt children, not only babies, to help lessen the abortion rate. Funny not as many naysayers willing to adopt or help others for years.
Sometimes women don't learn about a pregnancy early into it.
Sometimes it's about economics.
Sometimes a women has to wait until they have the funds & often travel expenses in some areas.
Back alley type abortions can kill those already born.
Sometimes it's about the health of the fetus and/or pregnant woman.

I know an older couple who were about to have their first child together but discovered all sorts of defects during an ultrasound. They were devasted. Making her continue with the pregnancy would have been cruel.

I know a younger couple whose fetus died inside the mother so to continue on with the pregnancy would have been cruel & possibly harmful to her.
Barbara Eden had such a situation. She had no option at that time but to carry to term all the while having a constant reminder and trying to be kind to others asking about her pregnancy.

I know a young couple who was excited to be having their first child but a test past the halfway mark proved the fetus had a rare condition which meant a very short & painful life if brought to term.

There are various reasons why someone makes such a decision. It's each pregnant woman's decision to make. Only try to make decisions for others if you're okay with them butting into your life and making serious decisions for you.

I have one thing that stood out here. Older couple to find out their baby would have some problems. I am outraged that doctors tells older people not to have children. I have had a troubling time having my own and I am 45 years old this year. My age have nothing to do with having a deformed baby. It has something to do with the genes when the baby is forming.
Also you said someone that had her baby die in the womb that is not abortion they just cleaned her out. That is not same dam thing. An abortion is killing an innocent life because people rather have a night of fun but they do not want the responsibility of taking care of innocent baby. If you are mature enough to have sex you are mature enough to welcome a baby. There is nothing wrong with having children even low income and limited income.
My parents in the 1960s when they were first married was late teens and early twenties. Those days lived on corn on cob and potatos and rice and fruits breads. They then had my sisters and they lived a life that made them live within their means. Later they improved and I came along.
Its funny how pro choicers want those that oppose abortion to foster or adopt but yet pro choicers refuses to do so.

 

[peacefulveglady]

The movement to remove a womans right to her own body is so far from "pro-life".
Try being pro-life in enacting universal health care, police reform, income disparity, lgbt rights, immigration reform.....

and where exactly is all the birth control for men? where is the push for those largely reversible vasectomies?
Where is the push for mandatory 18 year felony prison terms for rape that has the potential of pregency?
Since women have to create the baby for 9 months why was never required that the father be financially responsible for that duration?

I don't have time nor inclination to go any further, but the question of how anyone can call themselves pro-life when what they want is to negate a womans bodily autonomy goes unanswered

And to anyone using religion as their reasoning--it's quite decieteful to say you believe a God has higher powers and we should let God take control, then try and play God for others.
My grandmother was a devout Christian Catholic and knew that pro-life goals should be about life--and it was up to the individual to choose the best path for themselves, and leave it up to God

The reason why womans rights are needing to go is because there is a victim involved with the decisions.
God created man and woman different roles.
Men have sperm are givers of life. The woman has a ovaries and eggs and uterus so the sperm can meet up with egg. That is called conception. When conception starts and inplantation occurs that is start of new life to start forming.
I think its sad that those that does not want a baby thinks its ok to pleasure themselves and ok slaughtering inocent babies that did not ask to be slaughtered.
I think its sad those that can do anything for a child or two and cannot conceive a baby while at the same time witnessing ungrateful woman disposing an inconvience or problem or burden that should be called a baby.
I think its sad still the vegan community supports these woman to slaughter the innocent but you do not see past saving just animals both animals and human babies are both victims.

 

[Deleted member 14798]

I have one thing that stood out here. Older couple to find out their baby would have some problems. I am outraged that doctors tells older people not to have children. I have had a troubling time having my own and I am 45 years old this year. My age have nothing to do with having a deformed baby. It has something to do with the genes when the baby is forming.
Also you said someone that had her baby die in the womb that is not abortion they just cleaned her out. That is not same dam thing. An abortion is killing an innocent life because people rather have a night of fun but they do not want the responsibility of taking care of innocent baby. If you are mature enough to have sex you are mature enough to welcome a baby. There is nothing wrong with having children even low income and limited income.
My parents in the 1960s when they were first married was late teens and early twenties. Those days lived on corn on cob and potatos and rice and fruits breads. They then had my sisters and they lived a life that made them live within their means. Later they improved and I came along.
Its funny how pro choicers want those that oppose abortion to foster or adopt but yet pro choicers refuses to do so.

No one told that older couple not to have children. Their fetus had only a partial brain among other issues. I didn't say it was necessarily about their age. I was clarifying between the examples without naming names. No reason to continue to try to have a biological child but adopt one in need of a home, even an older child.

The dead fetus has to be delivered. Therefore the woman now has to be induced. Barbara Eden had to wait in her time.

Wrong about being mature enough to care for a baby if one is mature enough for sex. Hormones happen at puberty. Caring for a child requires more than hormones. There's nothing wrong with having help if it's available and adequate. Too many against abortion are also against increased taxes to pay for the help.

People should choose for themselves and allow others the same courtesy. I'm not one advocating increasing the population with homeless children. Those against abortion should adopt even if they need to struggle and take some of that assistance. Or at least 'adopt a family' by helping someone who chooses not to have an abortion until said child becomes an adult. If they're okay with others struggling then they can give of themselves until it hurts.

 

[Deleted member 14798]

The reason why womans rights are needing to go is because there is a victim involved with the decisions.
God created man and woman different roles.
Men have sperm are givers of life. The woman has a ovaries and eggs and uterus so the sperm can meet up with egg. That is called conception. When conception starts and inplantation occurs that is start of new life to start forming.
I think its sad that those that does not want a baby thinks its ok to pleasure themselves and ok slaughtering inocent babies that did not ask to be slaughtered.
I think its sad those that can do anything for a child or two and cannot conceive a baby while at the same time witnessing ungrateful woman disposing an inconvience or problem or burden that should be called a baby.
I think its sad still the vegan community supports these woman to slaughter the innocent but you do not see past saving just animals both animals and human babies are both victims.

Sex isn't only about procreation. Most people don't have sex just when they want to make a baby. Homosexuality happens in the animal kingdom even when there's enough opposite sex partners available. Living creatures were all created the same whether via science or divinity.
There are various reasons why abortion is chosen. To say that it's about an "inconvenience or problem or burden" is insulting. You can't know someone else's business so they need to make important decisions for themselves. Would you be okay with another making important decisions for you?

 

[silva]

And really,

I have one thing that stood out here. Older couple to find out their baby would have some problems. I am outraged that doctors tells older people not to have children. I have had a troubling time having my own and I am 45 years old this year. My age have nothing to do with having a deformed baby. It has something to do with the genes when the baby is forming.
Also you said someone that had her baby die in the womb that is not abortion they just cleaned her out. That is not same dam thing. An abortion is killing an innocent life because people rather have a night of fun but they do not want the responsibility of taking care of innocent baby. If you are mature enough to have sex you are mature enough to welcome a baby. There is nothing wrong with having children even low income and limited income.
My parents in the 1960s when they were first married was late teens and early twenties. Those days lived on corn on cob and potatos and rice and fruits breads. They then had my sisters and they lived a life that made them live within their means. Later they improved and I came along.
Its funny how pro choicers want those that oppose abortion to foster or adopt but yet pro choicers refuses to do so.

I believe you should look up the definition of "choice"
When we who believe having babies is a womens choice ask those who oppose it how many babies they;ve taken in it's because they are the ones who want to DENY choice, so why shouldn't it be mandatory for them to take those they insist woman create? And please spare us the 'don't have sex'. What has any anti abortion movement done to prevent pregnancy? Most want to make birth control hard to obtain,with many restrictions and cost. Where is the push for male birth control? Vasectomy?
Many of these states want to enact laws that would require investigation of every miscarrage,and even deny a D&C when the baby is terminal

 

[peacefulveglady]

And really,

I believe you should look up the definition of "choice"
When we who believe having babies is a womens choice ask those who oppose it how many babies they;ve taken in it's because they are the ones who want to DENY choice, so why shouldn't it be mandatory for them to take those they insist woman create? And please spare us the 'don't have sex'. What has any anti abortion movement done to prevent pregnancy? Most want to make birth control hard to obtain,with many restrictions and cost. Where is the push for male birth control? Vasectomy?
Many of these states want to enact laws that would require investigation of every miscarrage,and even deny a D&C when the baby is terminal

There is way to many babies being aborted over foolishness. Thank you for not explaining why you support a victim in animals being slsughtered over an innocent baby. Animals does not have souls. I have held this in til now. Maybe veganism not for me. I thought veganism is for all lives not just for animals.
If a person does not want a baby do not have sex simple as that.

 

[Lou]

This is probably inappropriate but ... sadly its as relevant today as it was 25 years ago.
also its funny.

 

[Lou]

Also. "Chickens are decent people"

 

[silva]

Both ironic and hypocritical for someone who complains about people attacking their Christianity

There is way to many babies being aborted over foolishness. Thank you for not explaining why you support a victim in animals being slsughtered over an innocent baby. Animals does not have souls. I have held this in til now. Maybe veganism not for me. I thought veganism is for all lives not just for animals.
If a person does not want a baby do not have sex simple as that.

Because I am again slavery,and murder.
When I rescued a cat that was found to be pregant she was beyond the time of a safe abortion. Yes, I wished she had an abortion rather than add to the multitudes of cats needing homes, risking abuse and disease, risking impending death in a kill shelter