Vegan pet foods

[FredVegrox]

I'm a vegan. I'm NOT speciest at all. I did NOT know that about their cat food, I sent a message about their dog food because I'm part of their affiliate program, but after finding out about this I will quit their affiliate program

What do you have against Wild Earth's cat food (which does not even exist yet)?

Nobody is obliged to a single company. We are consumers if we are still in this civilization, we still make our choices, and it can be according to conscience. I would think choosing what would involve the least harm to living beings would be the most desirable, certainly if there is still good health with that, for us and those we choose for. Fortunately there is vegan dog food and vegan cat food that is good for their health with the needed nutrients. If there wasn't, lab meat would be a second choice, though much lower in desirability. I would never ever choose lab meat for myself, in any case.

 

[FredVegrox]

There are really bad things for pets in pet food using slaughtered animal parts, anyway. But just the ethics of getting an animal so that you are part of the demand for the slaughtered animal parts is to be morally questioned. Would slaughtered dog and cat parts be acceptable to use as pet food for any kind of pet? Why not, but other animals slaughtered with parts used for pet food is? That is speciesist. We are not called to be speciesist with our compassion. Speciesists are people who fail to extend empathy towards animals, even some animals with keeping other animals distinct, even though animals, too, are clearly sentient, sensitive creatures who have the same basic desires for companionship, a chance to live a normal life, and freedom from pain.

 

[Lou]

Full disclosure. I don't have a cat and although I sometimes take care of other people's cats I just feed them whatever is in the cupboard. (and clean the litter box). And I don't even like cats.
But I know here at the Vegan Forum there has been a lot of discussion about vegan cat food.
I was pleasantly surprised to see in my NewsFeeder an article about Vegan Cat Food from an unlikely place. The Wall Street Journal.

Should Your Cat Be Vegan?

Humans are interested in the benefits of a vegan diet, but serving felines meatless meals stirs controversy; tofu for Trixie

www.wsj.com

 

[FredVegrox]

Full disclosure. I don't have a cat and although I sometimes take care of other people's cats I just feed them whatever is in the cupboard. (and clean the litter box). And I don't even like cats.
But I know here at the Vegan Forum there has been a lot of discussion about vegan cat food.
I was pleasantly surprised to see in my NewsFeeder an article about Vegan Cat Food from an unlikely place. The Wall Street Journal.

Should Your Cat Be Vegan?

Humans are interested in the benefits of a vegan diet, but serving felines meatless meals stirs controversy; tofu for Trixie

www.wsj.com

That is really alright. I don't have a cat either. I think it is important to take care of rescues, it seems to me that it is questionable to have any other animals. So a rescued cat is one thing. But cats have a predatory nature. For one to get a cat and call themselves vegan at that same time makes a conflict of meaning, as it is known that cats would kill small animals. To feed cats animal meat meant for pets will mean though that they get meat of animals that are not such a kind that they will ever catch themselves. That isn't natural meat for them. The meat that is left for them is not good quality anyway. It would not be worse to get plant-based food meant for cats, with nutrients they need put in it including taurine. That is the way to be consistent as a vegan. Natural predators fill a niche, where there is not another limiting factor to control a population that would grow excessively. Such predators would be fewer than populations of animals from which they catch individuals. Cats might be in that niche if there is not another controlling factor, for animals they can catch. But there would not be so many cats for that. Cats should not be continually bred, which they are for pet stores. That should not be supported. There is no other way of cats getting meat that is justified while there is quality plant-based food for cats. This should then be with cats that are rescued, and not supporting the breeding of cats that happens with getting any from a pet store. I am not in a position to care for a rescued animal, if I would be, there are other animals that might be rescued too, not just cats. So it is not good to pay for meat from animals that are slaughtered, in any case.

 

[nobody]

To feed cats animal meat meant for pets will mean though that they get meat of animals that are not such a kind that they will ever catch themselves. That isn't natural meat for them. The meat that is left for them is not good quality anyway. It would not be worse to get plant-based food meant for cats, with nutrients they need put in it including taurine. That is the way to be consistent as a vegan.

I think the lower quality meat and other animal tissues in cat food are better for cats' health than vegan pet food. Farm animals are not natural food for our cats' distant Afrcan wildcat ancestors, but these animals have been dining on our table scraps for about the past 10,000 years at least so they are somewhat adapted to eating farm animal parts. As far as just adding in what they need, such as taurine, it isn't that simple:

Cats have an absolute requirement for the nutrients taurine and arachadonic acid that are found naturally only in animal products, with one exception: a type of seaweed that contains arachadonate. Taurine can be chemically synthesized (although the process is so environmentally harsh that all synthetic taurine used in the U.S. is imported from China). These additives can be used to make a diet that is chemically complete. However, natural sources of taurine and arachadonic acid contain many other amino acids, enzymes, co-factors, and other complex nutrients that may also be important for the cat’s overall health. Science has shown us that whole-food derived nutrients are, in almost all cases, far superior and healthy than synthetic versions. For instance, ascorbic acid is the active ingredient in Vitamin C. However, natural Vitamin C contains many other components, including rutin, bioflavonoids, and other co-factors.

Vegetarian Cats? | Little Big Cat - Dr. Jean Hofve

By Jean Hofve, DVM There are several companies and websites that promote vegetarian (no meat or fish) or even vegan (no animal products at all) diets for cats. These products appeal to people who have chosen a vegetarian or vegan lifestyle for ethical reasons, and want to apply the same...

littlebigcat.com

 

[FredVegrox]

"Farm animals are not natural food for our cats' distant Afrcan wildcat ancestors, but these animals have been dining on our table scraps for about the past 10,000 years at least so they are somewhat adapted to eating farm animal parts."

No, that is hugely overestimated. It was much more recent, and when the people were having cats around willingly the earliest, they valued them for catching rodents that were pests. And it stayed that way for a very long time. They were not fed scraps like dogs early on, and cats remained rodent catchers for a long time until recently, when prepared cat food was made generally available in commercial times.

 

[KLS52]

Call me conflicted but I have three rescue cats who are strictly indoor and they get meat based cat food. I would never attempt to feed a cat a vegan diet.

 

[nobody]

"Farm animals are not natural food for our cats' distant Afrcan wildcat ancestors, but these animals have been dining on our table scraps for about the past 10,000 years at least so they are somewhat adapted to eating farm animal parts."

No, that is hugely overestimated. It was much more recent, and when the people were having cats around willingly the earliest, they valued them for catching rodents that were pests. And it stayed that way for a very long time. They were not fed scraps like dogs early on, and cats remained rodent catchers for a long time until recently, when prepared cat food was made generally available in commercial times.

They were eating scraps out of trash heaps in cities throughout history which explains why the archtypal food of a feral cat is a fish skeleton rather than a mouse. Mostly they are ate rodents but farm animal parts have been at least a part of their diets for a pretty long time.

 

[Nekodaiden]

That is really alright. I don't have a cat either. I think it is important to take care of rescues, it seems to me that it is questionable to have any other animals. So a rescued cat is one thing. But cats have a predatory nature. For one to get a cat and call themselves vegan at that same time makes a conflict of meaning, as it is known that cats would kill small animals. To feed cats animal meat meant for pets will mean though that they get meat of animals that are not such a kind that they will ever catch themselves. That isn't natural meat for them. The meat that is left for them is not good quality anyway. It would not be worse to get plant-based food meant for cats, with nutrients they need put in it including taurine. That is the way to be consistent as a vegan. Natural predators fill a niche, where there is not another limiting factor to control a population that would grow excessively. Such predators would be fewer than populations of animals from which they catch individuals. Cats might be in that niche if there is not another controlling factor, for animals they can catch. But there would not be so many cats for that. Cats should not be continually bred, which they are for pet stores. That should not be supported. There is no other way of cats getting meat that is justified while there is quality plant-based food for cats. This should then be with cats that are rescued, and not supporting the breeding of cats that happens with getting any from a pet store. I am not in a position to care for a rescued animal, if I would be, there are other animals that might be rescued too, not just cats. So it is not good to pay for meat from animals that are slaughtered, in any case.

I don't think it's at all inconsistent to be a vegan and feed a cat meat. I'm not eating the meat, the cat is. If I wasn't feeding the cat meat (actually, the kibble I feed it is almost wholly grains, with small amounts of animal products), then it would obtain it elsewhere. The cat already does this on it's own. It eats the food I provide, but also hunts. It would hunt more if it didn't have that grain based food.

There is no "less slaughter" if one obtains a pet food that contains some as opposed to not feeding it at all. The cat is going to seek it's own survival and while some chickens, pigs and cows from factory farms won't be on it's menu if it's not relying on a human, then more mice, birds and rabbits will be. The point is, one doesn't reduce animal slaughter by feeding a cat, one just chooses which animals will be slaughtered.

Vegan pet food seems like the answer to this, but that's only if one believes Nature/God/Whatever you want to call it made some serious mistakes when omnivores and carnivores were made/developed.

 

[Dillon Holub]

Dogs can live without meat. There are no cats. They need it in the diet. I want to somehow diversify the life of a cat. House steel different trees. He needs both food and water and activity.

 

[Dillon Holub]

I put this fountain for my cat.

🥇✅ТOP10 The Best Cat Water Fountain 2020 : Comparison | Rated | Reviews

Like all living beings on our planet, cats need fresh water. But in the wild nature, before domestication, ancestors of modern cats used to live in deserted areas in the conditions of a permanent water deficiency. Being flesh-eaters, they received enough water with their food – raw meat.

topanimalreview.com

Most of the time he is there. walks in circles studying. I was surprised that the cat has a lot of interest in ordinary water)

 

[Dillon Holub]

merry christmas

 

[FredVegrox]

They were eating scraps out of trash heaps in cities throughout history which explains why the archtypal food of a feral cat is a fish skeleton rather than a mouse. Mostly they are ate rodents but farm animal parts have been at least a part of their diets for a pretty long time.

Since you brought that up for me, I wasn't there to see it, and I wouldn't think you were. So unless you have good documentation of witnesses' accounts, I would not presume cats were not predatory to smaller animals throughout that time. Any scraps might have gone to them in the in between times, but nobody (and I don't mean you) would be stopping the cats from catching undesirable rodents.

I don't think it's at all inconsistent to be a vegan and feed a cat meat. I'm not eating the meat, the cat is. If I wasn't feeding the cat meat (actually the kibble I feed it is almost wholly grains, with small amounts of animal products), then it would obtain it elsewhere. The cat already does this on it's own. It eats the food I provide, but also hunts. It would hunt more if it didn't have that grain based food.

There is no "less slaughter" if one obtains a pet food that contains some as opposed to not feeding it at all. The cat is going to seek it's own survival and while some chickens, pigs and cows from factory farms won't be on it's menu if it's not relying on a human, then more mice, birds and rabbits will be. The point is, one doesn't reduce animal slaughter by feeding a cat, one just chooses which animals will be slaughtered.

Vegan pet food seems like the answer to this, but that's only if one believes Nature/God/Whatever you want to call it made some serious mistakes when omnivores and carnivores were made/developed.

There is no "less slaughter", but you pay those who slaughter, with the demand for the animal slaughter byproducts which are deemed unfit for human consumption (so how good are they for animals eating those? I can tell you, they are not good for them), when entrails, skin, nasal tissue, and anuses are all good enough for human consumption, which we have had if we were ever eating meat hot dogs.

Since you brought up to me whatever I believe in, I believe God did not ever make any mistakes and everything was perfect, but there was the fall with which we always do things wrong and our world is under a growing curse from those things. We do not have to keep contributing to that, though, if we repent to turn from such.

I became vegan years ago understanding that it should be with being antispeciesist. Now though there are speciesists who will call themselves vegan. I can't be sure that is wrong but it concerns me. I think the slaughter of animals should stop, some vegans now don't want that?

Dogs can live without meat. There are no cats. They need it in the diet. I want to somehow diversify the life of a cat. House steel different trees. He needs both food and water and activity.

No, that is not right, cats, and dogs, well, all animals, need protein, the protein they need does not have to be meat as long as it is the protein they actually need. So cats need protein that is with taurine and a few other things that are really essential to them, vegan cat food with those things is fully adequate for them, and in ways healthier than the horrible offal from slaughtered animals that is not fit for human consumption but that the slaughter businesses know they still get paid for selling that stuff with the demand for it from those such as you who pay for that. I wouldn't want to pay the slaughter industry one penny.

 

[FredVegrox]

I am growing in awareness that as veganism is growing toward being mainstream, it is fragmenting under the forces of different approaches all being called veganism. This is the way veganism broke away from vegetarianism, when that for a long time, many many decades, had been compromised by those who still wanted animal products and would use the name with just avoiding meat, with those who then chose to be counted under the term veganism that emerged being distinguished in not having anything that involved animals being used. Now some who just have fish for their only meat want some sort of inclusion in vegetarianism, or even veganism, to confuse the meanings among many. There are those just wanting the vegan diet, but don't change for the issues to animals. And there are those who give up anything from animals for themselves, but have no problem with having meat or animal products provided to others with their involvement for that. There are antispeciesists that will become more marginalized by others included in veganism that are not contrary to continuing speciesism.

 

[FredVegrox]

If you are caring for a cat, you should face difficult questions. Is the cat a pet? Why have a cat, as a vegan? It can be justified if you were rescuing the cat, otherwise you play a part in more cats being bred for pets people would want. Still, feeding them with cat food as it is generally available is a part of the speciesism, that creeps in among vegans.

Like our food system, the pet food system is equally problematic. It’s an industry built on low costs and high profits, which, in the case of animal ingredients, means the health and welfare of an animal typically comes last.

You should consider getting Jed Gillen’s book Obligate Carnivore. Gillen explores the nutrition issues of vegan cats in great detail. He also includes recipes for vegan cat food that you can make right in your kitchen. Since individual tastes vary between cats, you may need to try a number of recipes before you find one that your cat deems satisfactory. There is nothing more humiliating than spending thirty minutes lovingly preparing a batch of cat food, only to watch your cat give it a perfunctory sniff and then walk away in disgust, without deigning to taste even a morsel. When this happens, you can usually count on your cat shooting you a scornful look over his shoulder as he walks behind the sofa.

But with persistence, you may achieve success. Once you discover a recipe your cat enjoys, you must spike all future batches with a specially formulated amino acid and vitamin supplement. The most popular brand is called VegeCat, which can be purchased online. Don’t spike your test batch of homemade cat food with these supplements until after your cat approves of the recipe. These supplements are expensive and it’s silly to waste them on a test-recipe batch that won’t be eaten.

Vegan Cat Food and Vegan Cats: Weighing Risks & Rewards

Some cats manage to thrive on vegan cat food. But responsibily feeding your cat vegan demands substantial extra care, veterinary attention, and expense.

www.vegan.com

 

[nobody]

Since you brought that up for me, I wasn't there to see it, and I wouldn't think you were. So unless you have good documentation of witnesses' accounts, I would not presume cats were not predatory to smaller animals throughout that time. Any scraps might have gone to them in the in between times, but nobody (and I don't mean you) would be stopping the cats from catching undesirable rodents.

The first part of the second sentence of mine you quoted reads "mostly they are [sic] ate rodents" so why are you acting like I was suggesting rodents and other prey animals were not their primary diet?

 

[Flowrydabae]

I guess just read the reviews on if people's pets have gotten sick, and check for FDA approval.

 

[Flowrydabae]

If you are caring for a cat, you should face difficult questions. Is the cat a pet? Why have a cat, as a vegan? It can be justified if you were rescuing the cat, otherwise you play a part in more cats being bred for pets people would want. Still, feeding them with cat food as it is generally available is a part of the speciesism, that creeps in among vegans.

Like our food system, the pet food system is equally problematic. It’s an industry built on low costs and high profits, which, in the case of animal ingredients, means the health and welfare of an animal typically comes last.

You should consider getting Jed Gillen’s book Obligate Carnivore. Gillen explores the nutrition issues of vegan cats in great detail. He also includes recipes for vegan cat food that you can make right in your kitchen. Since individual tastes vary between cats, you may need to try a number of recipes before you find one that your cat deems satisfactory. There is nothing more humiliating than spending thirty minutes lovingly preparing a batch of cat food, only to watch your cat give it a perfunctory sniff and then walk away in disgust, without deigning to taste even a morsel. When this happens, you can usually count on your cat shooting you a scornful look over his shoulder as he walks behind the sofa.

But with persistence, you may achieve success. Once you discover a recipe your cat enjoys, you must spike all future batches with a specially formulated amino acid and vitamin supplement. The most popular brand is called VegeCat, which can be purchased online. Don’t spike your test batch of homemade cat food with these supplements until after your cat approves of the recipe. These supplements are expensive and it’s silly to waste them on a test-recipe batch that won’t be eaten.

Vegan Cat Food and Vegan Cats: Weighing Risks & Rewards

Some cats manage to thrive on vegan cat food. But responsibily feeding your cat vegan demands substantial extra care, veterinary attention, and expense.

www.vegan.com

This is why I don't have pets, although I wouldn't mind making friends with a blue jay.

 

[Poppy]

Call me conflicted but I have three rescue cats who are strictly indoor and they get meat based cat food. I would never attempt to feed a cat a vegan diet.

Lol - we're all conflicted about something! What fun would life be without conflicts???

My parents just spent $900 to get on a waiting list for a fancy smanchy Balinese kitten. They're both 82. I love cats, but my husband is allergic, and so we don't have one. I feed birds and squirrels and opossums, and that alone helps me be content without a cat. But the kitten my parents have spent an absolute fortune for will come to me when they no longer can keep it; I just know it will become my problem, kind of like taking the chihuahua they couldn't housebreak. Yeah. I'm opposed to breeding, I'm opposed to owning a cat, and I'm honestly opposed to having to feed meat to a pet, even thought I do feed my dogs some regular food in addition to the vegan (has to do with kibble size and broken jaws, but that's another story.)

(The shelter I'm involved with regularly has specials on cats and kittens for $10 (thanks to a wonderful benefactor!) and the thought that my parents could save 90 cats with the amount they spent on one kitten is pretty heartbreaking.)

So yeah, conflicts and resolutions are part of the price we pay for adopting the "vegan" label. Which is kind of why I rarely use it.

 

[KLS52]

My Daughter is going ahead with buying a Shiloh Shepherd. At least one dog is pregnant so she will be getting the puppy in April. Obviously I will fall in love with him/her. I just wish she had gone a different route.