Should dog and cat breeding be illegal?

[nobody]

It would never happen but I approve of every country making dog and cat breeding illegal for normal citizens. What I mean by normal citizens is just as governments grow illegal drugs for use in government research, government officials would still be able to breed German Shepherds or other breeds for police work, etc., such as bomb sniffing or finding missing persons. But normal citizens would not be allowed to intentionally breed dogs dogs or cats, or let them mate.

What this would do is save millions of animals in kill shelters from being euthanized and it would save millions of animals in no kill shelters from the misery of living in a tiny cage at a shelter, sometimes for years. There would be much more demand for these animals because people would not be able to legally buy a dog or cat from a breeder.

With no humans artificially selecting for specific characteristics, over time it would lead to the end of nearly every dog and cat breed on the following lists. I am perfectly fine with all of these breeds dying out because I'm really sickened by pet breeding and dog and cat breed competitions and all that.

List of dog breeds - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

List of cat breeds - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

One word about extinction. A law like this would never bring about the extinction of dogs or cats themselves, because there would still be stray and feral dogs and cats mating, as well as irresponsible people who allow their unaltered dogs or cats to roam the streets, as well as the aforementioned government breeding of police and rescue dogs, as well as people who breed dog and cats illegally for the black market dog and cat meat and leather industries.

But it would be easy to prevent black market purebred pet breeding, because vets could be required to report people bringing purebred animals in for treatment for example. And anyone seen walking a purebred dog would be subject to arrest for buying from a breeder, so it would only be a matter of time before pet breeders were found and arrested.

 

[Lou]

I haven't really thought this through but perhaps more regulation could be created.

Maybe before you could buy or adopt a dog or cat you would need a permit. The permit could have some of the elements of a license and a binding contract. If you don't meet the requirements of the license you could not get an animal. and if later you were found in violation of the contract there would be penalties. Administration and enforcement could be paid for out of fees and fines. There could even be a test that you would have to pass before you get a permit.

One requirement of the license would be to have the dog spayed or neutered. And animals would be required to get a chip implanted. The owners of lost or abandoned animals could be fined or maybe have their permit revoked for a period of time.

Perhaps dog breeders could get a different kind of permit which would be more expensive and involve more restrictions and more oversight.

 

[nobody]

I haven't really thought this through but perhaps more regulation could be created.

Maybe before you could buy or adopt a dog or cat you would need a permit. The permit could have some of the elements of a license and a binding contract. If you don't meet the requirements of the license you could not get an animal. and if later you were found in violation of the contract there would be penalties. Administration and enforcement could be paid for out of fees and fines. There could even be a test that you would have to pass before you get a permit.

One requirement of the license would be to have the dog spayed or neutered. And animals would be required to get a chip implanted. The owners of lost or abandoned animals could be fined or maybe have their permit revoked for a period of time.

Perhaps dog breeders could get a different kind of permit which would be more expensive and involve more restrictions and more oversight.

Currently the way things are set up, there are hoops to jump through when you want to adopt, like the shelter wants to speak to your vet about how you care for animals, and verify any current dogs or cats you have are up to date on their rabies shots. And you need written permission from your landlord or be the homeowner, which needs to be verified, etc.

On the other hand, to buy a pet, all you need is money. Some people buy rather than adopt for this reason alone. They are intimidated by the adoption process. So to tweak your idea, keep these same requirements used currently to adopt, but to buy a purebred, there is an insanely expensive license you need to buy, and hard qualification process to go through, which makes the pool of buyers extremely small, so that the breeders must charge a much higher price than they do currently. This way, the middle class won't be able to afford to buy purebreds and will adopt from the shelter. Meanwhile, the rich will have their pedigree dogs and cats, keeping at least some of the more popular breeds going, if that's important.

My dad has a mixed breed male dog he adopted from a shelter and his previous dog was a male pedigree he bought from a breeder and neither was neutered and neither had/has ever come into contact with an unspayed female dog so it wasn't a problem.

I think desexing changes animals' personalities and I don't like the idea of it being a requirement for all animals, especially ones who live their whole lives as someone's sole pet. For example, there is no benefit to having a male rabbit neutered if he is your only rabbit. But if there are other rabbits in the house, being unaltered results in problems like aggression, territorial marking and fighting, so it's necessary, even if all your rabbits are male.

Edit: Actually, never mind rabbits. You can have several unaltered male dogs in your house, together with spayed female dogs or not, and everything is fine, as long as your dogs never get out and roam a neighborhood where there are unspayed female dogs, which is usually pretty manageable.

Maybe in the future they will have instant DNA tests that can determine which registered dog or cat parented any given puppy or kitten, for the purpose of fining the person responsible. Then there would be some accountability. Sometimes people let unaltered male dogs or cats - especially cats - out to roam the neighborhood because any resultant pregnancy isn't their problem. A hefty fine would be.

Usually the shelters have an "all cats will be altered prior to adoption" policy but this doesn't apply to dogs because there are laws against dogs roaming around and they can be picked up by a dog catcher so most people don't let their dogs roam around. And because of this, unaltered dogs usually don't present nearly as much of a risk of unwanted pregnancy.

But I don't think leaving female dogs unaltered is a good idea, because going into heat could cause them to escape and run away to find a male. And there is a danger of getting pregnant while on walks or at a park, if there are unaltered males around.

 

[Lou]

Not exactly on topic but ...

But as Swift’s planet-conquering Eras tour prepares to land in the UK next month, animal welfare experts have urged her fans not to copy Swift’s cats, saying the same characteristics that make the breed cute also condemn them to a life of constant pain.​

​

Swift has three cats, two of which, Olivia Benson and Meredith Grey, are Scottish folds, a breed distinguished by a genetic mutation that makes their ears fold flat and gives them an “owl-like” appearance. But the same gene that causes floppy cartilage in their ears also causes osteochondrodysplasia, which leads to abnormal bone growth, arthritis and severe pain.​

​

“We are not saying that Taylor herself is at fault for owning them,” said Sarah Elliott, the organisation’s central veterinary officer, adding that for most owners, “the breeders are not really giving them the information that they need. This is something owners find out later, and often it’s quite devastating to find out that your cat has this condition that can’t be cured, and that they’re going to be in pain for life.”​

​

....We strongly advise members of the public not to try to acquire cats of this breed.”​

​

Elliott said: “Our message is really to think twice and do a lot of research before you think about getting a cat. Don’t just look at TikTok and influencers [but consult] a vet or an animal charity who can give you a more scientific recommendation about a breed.”​

Taylor Swift’s cats have condition that causes constant pain, say experts

Animal welfare experts urge fans not to buy Scottish folds as mutation can lead to abnormal bone growth

www.theguardian.com

 

[silva]

Not exactly on topic but ...

But as Swift’s planet-conquering Eras tour prepares to land in the UK next month, animal welfare experts have urged her fans not to copy Swift’s cats, saying the same characteristics that make the breed cute also condemn them to a life of constant pain.​

​

Swift has three cats, two of which, Olivia Benson and Meredith Grey, are Scottish folds, a breed distinguished by a genetic mutation that makes their ears fold flat and gives them an “owl-like” appearance. But the same gene that causes floppy cartilage in their ears also causes osteochondrodysplasia, which leads to abnormal bone growth, arthritis and severe pain.​

​

“We are not saying that Taylor herself is at fault for owning them,” said Sarah Elliott, the organisation’s central veterinary officer, adding that for most owners, “the breeders are not really giving them the information that they need. This is something owners find out later, and often it’s quite devastating to find out that your cat has this condition that can’t be cured, and that they’re going to be in pain for life.”​

​

....We strongly advise members of the public not to try to acquire cats of this breed.”​

​

Elliott said: “Our message is really to think twice and do a lot of research before you think about getting a cat. Don’t just look at TikTok and influencers [but consult] a vet or an animal charity who can give you a more scientific recommendation about a breed.”​

Taylor Swift’s cats have condition that causes constant pain, say experts

Animal welfare experts urge fans not to buy Scottish folds as mutation can lead to abnormal bone growth

www.theguardian.com

I hope she responds to this, too often people discover things after the fact and I believe have a responsiblilty to warn others
So many flat faced breeds of both cats and dogs are popular, and they're purposefully bred for ill health

While banning breeding isn't even an possiblity, there should be very strict regulations and fees involved that should go to help fund rescues

 

[g0rph]

Coming back to this old thread...My 2 cents.

No, it shouldn't be "illegal". I want governments to impose as few rules as possible. Not more.

And no, there are many breeds that I would hate to see vanish.

There are good breeds and bad breeds.
Many of the "shepherd" dogs are very healthy... Border Collie, Australian cattle dog, Belgian Malinoix , foxhound, beagle, to name a few.

It would be criminal to let these die out (IMO)

I am not against the breeding of dogs for service dogs. Blind, deaf etc, and even police and army. They fulfill a vital role. Weapon and drug sniffing for a start.

I was at an AWS conference last week. The heightened terror threat meant they had dogs at the doors...sniffing for explosives... How on earth do we do that without these amazing creatures?

And to be honest I think the fact that we live with animals in our homes, we gain a better understanding of how they feel...pain, pleasure, stress, enjoyment. We see characters, personalities. If only the disconnect between them and animals used for food could be recoginised by more people.
Even so, activists use that very love of dogs (among other house animals), to try to convince non-vegans of the truth.

Of course puppy-farms are an abomination. And breeds that are bred for unhealthy characteristics should be seen as a bad thing... Bulldogs, Shar-Pei, the stupid decision back when to say that German Shepherds should have a downward sloping back...grrr.
I'd get rid of dog-shows, although I do think the agility trials are fun.

But no. I love animals and I love seeing and having them around. A world without domestic animals would be a far sadder place.

 

[silva]

Coming back to this old thread...My 2 cents.

No, it shouldn't be "illegal". I want governments to impose as few rules as possible. Not more.

And no, there are many breeds that I would hate to see vanish.

There are good breeds and bad breeds.
Many of the "shepherd" dogs are very healthy... Border Collie, Australian cattle dog, Belgian Malinoix , foxhound, beagle, to name a few.

It would be criminal to let these die out (IMO)

I am not against the breeding of dogs for service dogs. Blind, deaf etc, and even police and army. They fulfill a vital role. Weapon and drug sniffing for a start.

I was at an AWS conference last week. The heightened terror threat meant they had dogs at the doors...sniffing for explosives... How on earth do we do that without these amazing creatures?

And to be honest I think the fact that we live with animals in our homes, we gain a better understanding of how they feel...pain, pleasure, stress, enjoyment. We see characters, personalities. If only the disconnect between them and animals used for food could be recoginised by more people.
Even so, activists use that very love of dogs (among other house animals), to try to convince non-vegans of the truth.

Of course puppy-farms are an abomination. And breeds that are bred for unhealthy characteristics should be seen as a bad thing... Bulldogs, Shar-Pei, the stupid decision back when to say that German Shepherds should have a downward sloping back...grrr.
I'd get rid of dog-shows, although I do think the agility trials are fun.

But no. I love animals and I love seeing and having them around. A world without domestic animals would be a far sadder place.

As to working robots are far better without exploitation. In the US they don't v even want dogs to retire with their handlers. Police have had to take it to courts to keep the dogs they've spent their whole career with
I agree with everything else

 

[Brian W]

Coming back to this old thread...My 2 cents.

No, it shouldn't be "illegal". I want governments to impose as few rules as possible. Not more.

And no, there are many breeds that I would hate to see vanish.

There are good breeds and bad breeds.
Many of the "shepherd" dogs are very healthy... Border Collie, Australian cattle dog, Belgian Malinoix , foxhound, beagle, to name a few.

It would be criminal to let these die out (IMO)

I am not against the breeding of dogs for service dogs. Blind, deaf etc, and even police and army. They fulfill a vital role. Weapon and drug sniffing for a start.

I was at an AWS conference last week. The heightened terror threat meant they had dogs at the doors...sniffing for explosives... How on earth do we do that without these amazing creatures?

And to be honest I think the fact that we live with animals in our homes, we gain a better understanding of how they feel...pain, pleasure, stress, enjoyment. We see characters, personalities. If only the disconnect between them and animals used for food could be recoginised by more people.
Even so, activists use that very love of dogs (among other house animals), to try to convince non-vegans of the truth.

Of course puppy-farms are an abomination. And breeds that are bred for unhealthy characteristics should be seen as a bad thing... Bulldogs, Shar-Pei, the stupid decision back when to say that German Shepherds should have a downward sloping back...grrr.
I'd get rid of dog-shows, although I do think the agility trials are fun.

But no. I love animals and I love seeing and having them around. A world without domestic animals would be a far sadder place.

Much of what you wrote here is about your emotions and not the actual welfare of the animals. How would you feel about being a dog's prisoner and/or slave for your entire life if it were possible?

 

[g0rph]

As to working robots are far better without exploitation. In the US they don't v even want dogs to retire with their handlers. Police have had to take it to courts to keep the dogs they've spent their whole career with
I agree with everything else

If and when we can get robots to do the work of dogs, I am all for it. Right now, it isn't really feasible either cost-wise or tech-wise.
The fact that police have had to fight to keep their dogs is the problem, not that they got to have them as partners in the first place...

 

[Tom L.]

I don't know if it should be illegal; I think a genuinely well-cared-for dog, cat, or rabbit can easily have a happier, healthier, longer life than a wild one ever would. (I included rabbits because I've adopted 3 of them from a local shelter at different times, and they were mentioned above). But it should definitely be more regulated. I heartily agree with the points made above about NOT intentionally breeding for traits which are unhealthy for the individual animal, even though I think Pug dogs and Scottish Fold cats are cute, in their own way, and at least many of them have nice personalities.

But for myself... I would never, under any circumstances, pay anyone to breed an animal for me. I bought a few fish back in the 1960s, and now wish I hadn't. But I don't regret knowing and caring for the cats, Syrian hamster, rabbits, and gerbils I adopted from shelters or off the street... or 5 of the goldfish who turned up in my co-workers' Koi pond. I just don't want that responsibility unless there's a benefit in it for the animal; my pets needed me, I loved them, and we were all very happy together (even though one of my cats was always trying to murder my hamster and I had to be careful not to let him, keeping the hamster's cage in a room with the door ALWAYS closed). But how can an animal who hasn't even been conceived yet need anything?

 

[LoreD]

A lot of municipalities, have cracked down on the puppy mills by banning the sales through pet stores. This has been somewhat effective:

Adorable puppies for sale? Not at these pet stores anymore.​

Why the fight against “puppy mills” is coming to your local pet store.

Adorable puppies for sale? Not at these pet stores anymore.

Why the fight against “puppy mills” is coming to your local pet store.

www.vox.com

New York state passed a law that bans pet stores from selling some of the most popular pets in the country: dogs, cats, and rabbits. Just a week prior, Clark County, Nevada — which encompasses the city of Las Vegas — passed a similar law (which also forbids selling potbellied pigs), and this month, Washington, DC, did the same, covering almost every pet except fish (the law, like all DC legislation, now awaits approval from Congress).

The new policies represent some of the biggest advancements yet for animal welfare groups in the decades-long campaign against “puppy mills” — operations that confine breeding dogs in cages and pens to churn out puppies, many of which are shipped off to pet stores to fetch hundreds or even thousands of dollars.

And New York state, DC, and Clark County aren’t anomalies: Since 2010, more than 440 cities, counties, and states have prohibited the retail sale of dogs, including the states of California and Illinois and the cities of Philadelphia and Houston. (Pet store retail laws still allow pet stores to work with shelters and rescue organizations to adopt out animals, something that pet store giant PetSmart has done for decades.)

But pet store laws are just one part of a larger campaign to crack down on puppy mills. Some states that are home to puppy mills, such as Missouri, Pennsylvania, and Ohio, have passed laws that seem modest on the surface — marginally improving conditions for breeding dogs — but have been restrictive enough to cause many breeders in those states to breed fewer dogs or even close up shop altogether.

The two types of laws appear to be having an effect. The number of USDA-licensed breeders in the wholesale pet trade fell from 4,604 in 2008 to 2,916 in 2022. (These numbers cover all pet breeders, including those that raise fish, cats, and other animals, but dog breeders account for most of them).

 

[Danielle]

I don’t like the idea of culling and as far as I know most breeders cull. they cull for health reasons, behavior reasons, sometimes if they don’t like their color. I read on my rat group that they will cull the mother rat and her babies if her maternal instinct kicks in and she bites the human. Now she has maternal aggression so they kill her for it and put her pups in the freezer. I don’t think it matters if they do have maternal aggression unless you intend to breed them. Also I think it should be understandable why they would get mean to defend their young

 

[deadknight]

I don’t like the idea of culling and as far as I know most breeders cull. they cull for health reasons, behavior reasons, sometimes if they don’t like their color. I read on my rat group that they will cull the mother rat and her babies if her maternal instinct kicks in and she bites the human. Now she has maternal aggression so they kill her for it and put her pups in the freezer. I don’t think it matters if they do have maternal aggression unless you intend to breed them. Also I think it should be understandable why they would get mean to defend their young

Sadly enough, most breeders do cull.
Yes, in certain cases, offspring not having the desirable colour or combination is enough reason for culling. (And they dare to call themselves animal lovers...) I think the only valid reason for culling could be an incurable and/or debilitating illness. Only if the animal's whole life would be about nothing but suffering all the time.

The maternal aggression thing you're mentioning is shocking. I have no experiences with rats, but I know ferret, dog and cat breeders tend to be so connected with their animals that they trust these humans and don't intend to defend their newborns from them. So I wonder if it's possible to build the same confidence with rats?
Sorry, do I get it right? They killed the mother rat and froze her newborns to death because she showed maternal aggression? I think you can imagine what I would fancy to do to animal lovers like them.

 

[Tom L.]

I don’t like the idea of culling and as far as I know most breeders cull............. Also I think it should be understandable why they would get mean to defend their young

(bold emphasis mine) Truth. Most people don't think much of rodents, but I'd think they would at least grasp that rodents obviously make some effort to take care of their babies, considering how well they generally reproduce (duh).

 

[g0rph]

Sadly enough, most breeders do cull.

I think this depends where you are.

AFAIK this is not a thing here in Sweden (I am not 100%).

But before I transitioned, we bought a puppy from a breeder.
Now when we were looking for a dog, we saw many advertised as (along the lines of) "Not quite standard markings, thus reduced price" and similar.

We almost bought a "Jämthund" (Swedish Elk hound) because he had "poor" markings and was priced very low. (In the end, the size was a negative factor for my other half).

The breeder we bought from, I am certain, would never harm her dogs. She had at least 15 of her own, that all slept on and around her bed. Yeah, she was a bit of a crazy dog lady. But all proper sheltered kennels, lots of land and dogs running around everywhere of 2 different breeds.

There are some strong laws for dogs here... Crating is illegal. It is illegal to tie a dog up outside for more than an hour. It is illegal to leave them alone for more than 4 hours. They MUST be tagged. If a dog is kept indoors, they MUST have a view out of a window. They must be let outside every 6 hours (not at night).

Of course, it's a shame the same laws don't apply to pigs etc. ;(

 

[g0rph]

I think this depends where you are.

AFAIK this is not a thing here in Sweden (I am not 100%).

But before I transitioned, we bought a puppy from a breeder.
Now when we were looking for a dog, we saw many advertised as (along the lines of) "Not quite standard markings, thus reduced price" and similar.

We almost bought a "Jämthund" (Swedish Elk hound) because he had "poor" markings and was priced very low. (In the end, the size was a negative factor for my other half).

The breeder we bought from, I am certain, would never harm her dogs. She had at least 15 of her own, that all slept on and around her bed. Yeah, she was a bit of a crazy dog lady. But all proper sheltered kennels, lots of land and dogs running around everywhere of 2 different breeds.

There are some strong laws for dogs here... Crating is illegal. It is illegal to tie a dog up outside for more than an hour. It is illegal to leave them alone for more than 4 hours. They MUST be tagged. If a dog is kept indoors, they MUST have a view out of a window. They must be let outside every 6 hours (not at night).

Of course, it's a shame the same laws don't apply to pigs etc. ;(

Oh and there are lots of Doggy Day-care centres. We use one ourselves. It's a little pricey, but not crazy. We pay around 300$ a month for 6 hours a day, 5 days a week. This also helps with socialising the dog.