Rising energy costs & Veganism?

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Do you think rising energy costs will be good for veganism?

I have been reading a lot about how in the next decade or two there will very likely be a large increase in the price of energy due to rapid depletion of cheap oil. People, books, or podcasts to follow include Nate Hagens and Richard Heinberg who claim that cheap and easy-to-obtain energy (i.e. high EROI energy) is fast depleting. Cheap oil typically comes from the Middle East e.g. the Ghawar Field in Saudi Arabia and this cheap energy, once gone, will mean that humanity will need to instead exploit very hard-to-reach energy sources such as tar sands, shale, and deep water oil.

According to Richard Heinberg, because of the likely rise in energy prices and declining global EROI, society will be forced to "power down" i.e. we will need to go back to simpler living. Nate Hagens calls this "the Great Simplification." Renewables offer humans a chance to transition away from fossil fuels, but renewables are not easy to transition because there is a considerable amount of energy required to build out renewable infrastructure e.g. wind turbines, solar panels, batteries, and grid. Currently about 80% of the world's energy needs are coming from fossil fuel sources, so we are still totally addicted to fossil fuels, and it seems unlikely that renewables can be scaled up significantly to replace fossil fuels, which means a large spike in energy prices is highly likely in the next decade or two.

So what does a world with depleted fossil fuels and higher energy costs look like? There are potential positives e.g. because AI uses a lot of energy, it is likely that AI will not be able to obtain the energy needed to pose much of a threat to humanity, and also ideas such as space exploration and living on Mars will also likely not happen because such endeavours require an enormous amount of energy. Something else that may be positive is that factory farming will be under pressure since factory farming is highly energy intensive requiring huge amount of natural gas for Haber-Bosch fertiliser production and diesel trucks to transport livestock feed and meat.

However, energy descent has negatives. For one, if energy prices rise, it is likely that meat prices for big animals will rise the most. We are already seeing this with beef, which is very expensive, but many are simply switching to meat from smaller animals such as chicken and pork as well as eggs, and CAFOs and intensive agriculture brings down costs, which makes industrialized CAFO chicken and pork still quite cheap relative to beef. Nevertheless, even if chicken and pork are cheap, traditional plant proteins such as tofu, tempeh, seitan, lentil and beans are usually as cheap or cheaper, and plant proteins are very energy efficient.

Another downside of the energy descent is that there is a real risk of authoritarianism because people get angry from rise in living costs and want someone to blame, so authoritarians give people what they want by creating scapegoats. Add to this the rise of AI misinformation as well as the ability to use AI to mass-produce propaganda and misinformation and we have a dire future ahead.

Another point I will raise is that modern civilisation has indeed made some progress in alleviating oppression e.g. there has been progress made on gender equality as well as abolition of human slaves, and the hope is that in the future non-human animals are in line to be the next group to be emancipated. However, progress is not guaranteed and humanity can easily revert back to the dark days or there may be no progress whatsoever in building out a vegan world. If a vegan world is never achieved, finding more energy (e.g. fusion power) or expanding humanity to other planets risks simply expanding suffering even further. It is not just animal suffering that is huge in a world with so much power. Another example is sex trafficking. Fossil fuels arguably enable transnational sex trafficking, which is akin to animal agriculture.

If there is a "power down" and energy prices rise, the collapse of modern civilisation may result in a reversion to traditional lifestyles, and this can include a significant amount of suffering. What may happen is that rather than have energy intense factory farming, humans revert back to traditional subsistence farming as seen in many poor countries, and we see in many traditional subsistence farming communities that animals are not treated well e.g. buffaloes till the soil and chicken are left to wander around to provide eggs and then slaughtered when they are old. Furthermore, gender equality is typically not respected in agricultural compounds as the role of women is typically to have children to provide more workers to work on the farm.

Another possibility is instead of a reversion to agricultural lifestyles, energy descent may result in people simply cutting down consumption. I call this Tang Ping which is Chinese for "lying flat" which is exactly the lifestyle that happened when Chinese youths facing economic challenges. They simply lived with their parents or lived in small dwellings or in share houses and did the minimum amount of work necessary to do virtually nothing, that is, lie flat. We see similar movements among other East Asian youths e.g. Sampo in South Korea and Satori in Japan. We are also seeing similar lifestyles in the West but it is framed and termed differently e.g. quiet quitting, minimalism, or leanfire. We are also seeing a decline in sex, that is, the co-called "sex recession" as well as separatist movements such as 4B and 6B4T, so as energy declines and the world gets more angry and authoritarian, it is highly likely that instead of having a grand return-to-the-land movements, instead everyone just separates from each other, severely reduces consumption, and do the minimum just to lie flat. Although this sounds somewhat dystopian, there are positive elements in this hyperautonomous Tang Ping lifestyle e.g. consumption and energy use will go down considerably. People may walk or ride a bike rather than indulge in excess such as SUVs or pick-up trucks. People will likely embrace informal urbanism and share dwellings, live in multifamily houses, or live in micro-apartments. Traditional plant proteins such as tofu and lentils will likely be cheaper than animal protein. People may spend a lot more time simply sitting or lying still and thinking about what just happened, which may make people more contemplative.

I don't know what is in store for the future, but these are some of my thoughts on what is possible, and I am interested in the implications of energy descent as it relates to the most vulnerable among us e.g. the poor and the animals. Richard Heinberg and even Nate Hagens say that the way ahead is to simplify life right now so that when energy prices rise in the future, we are prepared for it.
 
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It is highly unlikely that this will happen. Oil is in the $60s per barrel which isn't super high, and there's a long history of new reserves being found.

Most important reason why they are almost certainly wrong is solar power, which is scaling up and costs are going down. Solar + batteries can already compete with fossil fuels in southern states, Mediterranean, tropics, India etc,

There's also nuclear power. That could in theory scale up massively. France easily powered their entire electricity grid off nuclear in one decade in the 1970s when they decided to, and nuclear has improved since then and is very safe. In the very, very, very unlikely event that solar fails to deliver, people's irrational opposition to nuclear would quickly disappear if it were the only way to stop an energy descent.

There is also wind power.

There will be no energy descent.

There is a small chance that we will suffer short periods of low energy for some days or a couple of weeks once a year due to wind and solar variability, however I think it's more likely solutions will be found to that.
 
According to the history books in Star Trek.
In the 23rd century, the source of most power on Earth is fusion, geothermal, or solar.
Warp drives are primarily used in space.
 
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According to the history books in Star Trek.
In the 23rd century, the source of most power on Earth is fusion, geothermal, or solar.
Warp drives are primarily used in space.

Indeed, looking at the current state of nuclear fusion, the 23rd century might be a realistic estimate for when it might become viable.

Until then, we’ll have to make do with solar and wind…
 
The sun is nuclear fusion, so in a way solar panels are just devices that collect energy produced from nuclear fusion.
 
It is highly unlikely that this will happen. Oil is in the $60s per barrel which isn't super high, and there's a long history of new reserves being found.

Most important reason why they are almost certainly wrong is solar power, which is scaling up and costs are going down. Solar + batteries can already compete with fossil fuels in southern states, Mediterranean, tropics, India etc,

There's also nuclear power. That could in theory scale up massively. France easily powered their entire electricity grid off nuclear in one decade in the 1970s when they decided to, and nuclear has improved since then and is very safe. In the very, very, very unlikely event that solar fails to deliver, people's irrational opposition to nuclear would quickly disappear if it were the only way to stop an energy descent.

There is also wind power.

There will be no energy descent.

There is a small chance that we will suffer short periods of low energy for some days or a couple of weeks once a year due to wind and solar variability, however I think it's more likely solutions will be found to that.
There are many other energy options after cheap fossil fuels, but these other energy options are not cheap. They have a low energy return on investment (EROI) because they require more energy to obtain. So for example, shale oil in America is an example of an oil reserve that although large has a low EROI, which means that much of the energy obtained needs to be reinvested into extracting the next batch of shale oil. Shale oil has an EROI of between 3:1 and 5:1 compared to conventional oil, which historically had EROIs of 30:1 or 100:1.

The same idea applies to solar and wind. While their EROI might be high at the point of generation, the system-level EROI (including storage, grid redundancy, and backup) is significantly lower. Batteries are problematic since batteries currently require fossil fuels to construct e.g. diesel for mining. Regarding nuclear, there are complex supply chains and infrastructure required to build and safeguard it. Currently fossil fuels make up about 80% of energy use, so it looks like we are highly dependent on them, and the alternatives are not scaling up quickly. There is also a difference between electricity and liquid fuels. Batteries can help the grid, but we don't have a battery-powered 747 or a battery-powered container ship.

A key finding of Hagens is that energy supply is highly correlated to economic growth. As EROI declines, there is less net energy going into society that gets more and more complex and energy hungry e.g. with crypto mining and AI. I suspect this explains the rising cost of living.
 
High EROI is nice, but I don't think it's as important as all that. If a technology is cheap and doesn't pollute it's going to happen.

Solar and the additional cost of batteries now costs approx the same as fossil fuels to replace most of the fossil fuels in the electricity grid, but not all. This varies a bit by location.

If we are talking about crossing oceans, then airplanes and ships cannot be battery powered at least for now, but there may be some other solution at some stage.

Don't forget population growth is slowing, that will make it easier to get all the energy.
 
This is a very thought-provoking issue. I've read some of these same commentators and others whose argument is that overall prosperity is falling as energy costs rise. It's hard to say if they are right - the world is very big and fossil fuel deposits are still out there. But look at the UK - they have burned through all their cheap coal and now most of their oil and gas and are now a net importer. The US hit peak conventional oil quite a while back but what saved them was unconventional recovery via fracking, though apparently this is peaking too as the oil recovered is much lighter and less useful. Incidentally, I suspect the scale of plastic production these days is due to lesser quality oil recovery - we need more of it to produce useful product but that leaves a lot of less useful product which it turns out is suitable to make plastics, so perhaps the scale of plastic production underwrites useful energy extraction. Then we have the possibility of Venezuelan oil coming back onstream, though I have read that is very expensive (so high EROI).

Renewables - I still can't see these working at scale. Wind and solar remain intermittent and unpredictable, so total supply depends on considerable redundancy (ie overbuild). I'm not sure people realise what the scale would have to be to actually power a Westen economy for 100% of the time. These companies aren't making these investments to supply cheap or free energy. I suspect we will need coal and gas to remain as baseload supply. Also, overbuild of rooftop solar threatens grid stability, something we are already seeing here in Australia. Our energy prices continue to rise as well, though that might be due to high gas prices (incidentally, battery supply remains about the most expensive per Mw/hr on the grid).

Overall, the claim that we are seeing falling per capita prosperity and rising poverty seems borne out by observation. Maybe not civilisation collapse, but I don't think our future will be as merry as the 1950s to the 1980s. But who knows, maybe countries will resolve the energy issue and find cheaper sources in the near future. Personally, I lean more towards ongoing declines, with the UK perhaps being the canary in the mine to watch.
 
I should also add that for both Nate Hagens and Richard Heinberg, it is not all doom and gloom. If energy descent is our future, their prescription is that we simply live a low energy lifestyle. Hagens calls this the "Great Simplification" and it will mean we simplify our lives so that it becomes low energy. This will mean that things like AI and SUVs and overseas travel may need to be replaced by eg reading books, riding bikes, and local travel. It can mean positive changes such as replacing meat with traditional plant protein such as tofu, tempeh, and lentils, which require much less energy to produce.