Question about complete proteins

[StopFactoryFarms]

I read that to get complete protein (all the amino acids) all you need is a peanut butter sandwich with 100% whole wheat bread. I'm wondering if it is really that simple, as I like how easy it is to make a peanut butter sandwich and doesn't take any cooking. I often eat half a peanut butter sandwich a day but wonder if that is enough.

I also read online that Clif bars are complete proteins too. Is eating only one Clif bar a day for protein enough?

I also think I read that black beans with maybe brown rice is complete but I don't really like cooking much.

 

[silva]

A large part of being omnivore is the ability to utilise nutrients from both animals, or solely through plants. While the meat and dairy industry continue to advocate animal products as being a more 'bio available' form of protein, there are far more benefits from getting protein as well as other nutrients, from a well balanced plant based diet.
You do not need to worry about daily food combing, just be sure you eat a variety of foods.
I struggled with this in my teen years when the book Diet for a Small Planet was still the cornerstone of vegetarian diets.

Do You Have to Combine Plant Proteins at a Meal? | NutritionFacts.org

All nutrients come from the sun or the soil. Vitamin D, the “sunshine vitamin,” is created when skin is exposed to sunlight. Everything else comes from

nutritionfacts.org

The Protein-Combining Myth | NutritionFacts.org

The myth that plant proteins are incomplete, necessitating protein combining, was debunked by the scientific nutrition community decades ago.

nutritionfacts.org

and for a completely neutral stance

Amino Acid: Benefits & Food Sources

Amino acids are the building blocks of protein. Your body needs 20 amino acids to function correctly. Nine of these amino acids are called essential amino acids.

my.clevelandclinic.org

 

[silva]

I've forgotten specifics, but in general, beans and lentils are high in some aminos while whole grains are high in others. It does make sense to have both in a days diet so it really happens anyway
Soy, buckwheat, and quinoa are examples of plant foods that contain all needed amino acids by themselves

 

[Lou]

Complete proteins are a myth. Food combining is a myth.

ALL. plant foods have ALL the amino acids. They do have different proportions but in theory you could get all the amino acids and enough proteins by eating ANY plant food.

I just did a little CronOmeter experiment. And I would get all my protein and all my amino by eating 4 cups of black beans and 4 cups of brown rice. (see graphic below)

But you could also get all your protein by eating like a dozen heads of lettuce.

Neither one of those ideas are that good. but they illustrate just how easy it is to get enough protein.

Basically (and I'm fond of saying), if you consume enough calories from a variety of food sources, you will get enough protein.

a half or even a whole PB&J a day is not enough calories or protein. you can even add a cliff bar and a bowl of beans and rice and you still would not be getting enough calories (or protein).

Oh read this

Protein for Vegetarians (& the myth of incomplete proteins)

 

[Tom L.]

I read that to get complete protein (all the amino acids) all you need is a peanut butter sandwich with 100% whole wheat bread. I'm wondering if it is really that simple, as I like how easy it is to make a peanut butter sandwich and doesn't take any cooking. I often eat half a peanut butter sandwich a day but wonder if that is enough.

I also read online that Clif bars are complete proteins too. Is eating only one Clif bar a day for protein enough?

I also think I read that black beans with maybe brown rice is complete but I don't really like cooking much.

It's hard to say without knowing what else you're eating. Of course, neither a peanut butter sandwich on whole wheat nor one Clif bar by itself provides nearly enough protein (or anything else) you need for a day.

I don't care much for cooking either- but I do like eating! And since going out to restaurants all the time (expensive and probably unhealthy) or living on convenience foods (ditto) aren't good plans, I just buckle down and cook as necessary.

There are healthy foods which require little or no preparation, some of my faves being unsalted sunflower kernels (raw or roasted), peanuts (I prefer dry-roasted and unsalted), almost any fruit, and many vegetables (although some vegetables are not good to eat raw). Some folks choose a raw food regimen, with little or no cooking- but I don't know that much about raw, other than it's not for me.

EDITED TO ADD: many foods have labels which give the nutrient content for various nutrients: calories, carbs, fat, proteins, and usually other information. You can always just check those (as I do!)

ETA (again): @silva I bought "Diet For A Small Planet" too, and have since heard that the author no longer feels that protein combining at the same meal is necessary. But I still often cook that way because because I think it tastes good! A meal of just wholegrain bread or just cooked beans as the only protein source usually bores me (although a good meatless legume chili, rice pilaf or risotto, or pasta dish will always make me salivate like a Saint Bernard, even if there is only one significant protein ingredient).

 

[Lou]

ETA (again): @silva I bought "Diet For A Small Planet" too, and have since heard that the author no longer feels that protein combining at the same meal is necessary.

I only recently tossed my 50 year old copy of Cooking for a Small Planet. Not because it isn't any good but who uses cookbooks nowadays.

In the 1981 edition of Diet for a Small Planet , The author, Frances Moore-Lappé, wrote:

In 1971 I stressed protein complementarity because I assumed that the only way to get enough protein...was to create a protein as usable by the body as animal protein. In combating the myth that meat is the only way to get high-quality protein, I reinforced another myth. I gave the impression that in order to get enough protein without meat, considerable care was needed in choosing foods. Actually, it is much easier than I thought.
With three important exceptions, there is little danger of protein deficiency in a plant food diet. The exceptions are diets very heavily dependent on [1] fruit or on [2] some tubers, such as sweet potatoes or cassava, or on [3] junk food (refined flours, sugars, and fat). Fortunately, relatively few people in the world try to survive on diets in which these foods are virtually the sole source of calories. In all other diets, if people are getting enough calories, they are virtually certain of getting enough protein."20[emphasis in original]

Protein for Vegetarians (& the myth of incomplete proteins)

What is interesting (to me) is that although the original idea of protein combining came out 50 years ago and was debunked 40 years ago - we still hear it all the time.

On the same note, check out what John McDougall wrote:

it is impossible to design an amino acid–deficient diet based on the amounts of unprocessed starches and vegetables sufficient to meet the calorie needs of humans.​

​

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/01.CIR.0000018905.97677.1F

Like I've been saying, if you eat enough calories you get enough protein.

​

 

[Jamie in Chile]

I read that to get complete protein (all the amino acids) all you need is a peanut butter sandwich with 100% whole wheat bread. I'm wondering if it is really that simple, as I like how easy it is to make a peanut butter sandwich and doesn't take any cooking. I often eat half a peanut butter sandwich a day but wonder if that is enough.

I also read online that Clif bars are complete proteins too. Is eating only one Clif bar a day for protein enough?

I also think I read that black beans with maybe brown rice is complete but I don't really like cooking much.

I read about this in detail some years back from several sources and the conclusion was that if you eat a balanced diet with all the main food groups, and included at least some legumes, you get enough of all the amino acids.

Even without legumes (and without meat) you get all the amino acids but in that case 1 of the amino acids (lysine) can be on the low side.
I wrote more here: Getting Enough Protein Is Easy

I wrote a very short summary of vegan nutrition here, citing sources (it is not about protein specifically): Vegan Nutrition

 

[beforewisdom]

The rule is if you only eat whole food plant based foods and you get enough calories to maintain your weight, you should get adequate amounts of protein.

If you want more protein, a higher quality variety of aminio acids you can complement your amino acids during a day, or for more, every meal.

The food combinations that give you enough of each of the 9 essential amino acids to make "complete protein" are:

1. legumes + whole grains
2. legumes + seeds
3. dairy products (non-vegan) + anything else.

 

[Rohan]

Complete proteins are a myth. Food combining is a myth.

ALL. plant foods have ALL the amino acids. They do have different proportions but in theory you could get all the amino acids and enough proteins by eating ANY plant food.

This is it Lou.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6893534/ (see section 3)

I just asked ChatGPT to list the essential amino acids in peanuts. Result attached showing all nine in there.

Whether you trust GPT or not is up to you

 

[beforewisdom]

Do yourself a favor and do not ask ChatGPT anything.

There have been numerous articles about how it often gets things wrong.

 

[Rohan]

Do yourself a favor and do not ask ChatGPT anything.

There have been numerous articles about how it often gets things wrong.

Yeah probably best.

Did you see the proof in the PMC link though?

 

[Lou]

This is it Lou.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6893534/ (see section 3)

Yes. long winded , in great detail, and well referenced.
skipped to the conclusion
"classic vegetarian diets supply more than adequate protein and amino acids. In a fraction of vegans, there might be a modest risk of insufficient intake,"

 

[Rohan]

Yes. long winded , in great detail, and well referenced.
skipped to the conclusion
"classic vegetarian diets supply more than adequate protein and amino acids. In a fraction of vegans, there might be a modest risk of insufficient intake,"

Yep ... and this paragraph is poignant ...

The claim that certain plant foods are “missing” specific amino acids is demonstrably false. All plant foods contain all 20 amino acids, including the 9 indispensable amino acids. Importantly, rather than “missing” indispensable amino acids, a more accurate statement would be that the amino acid distribution profile is less optimal in plant foods than in animal foods.

 

[Lou]

Yep ... and this paragraph is poignant ...

its stuff like this that makes me turn off any "influencer" , doctor, dietician, or whomever when they include the words incomplete protein in their writings or videos. It's well understood that plants can provide an adequate diet all by themselves. So when they start talking about incomplete proteins it not only shows an ignorance or willful disregard of the facts but also they are perpetuating a myth.

I'm a little forgiving with food combining because that may have some utility.

It does drive me a little batty that these myths which were debunked 50 years ago are still prevalent. But the myth was out there for ten years before it was seriously challenged. Samuel Clements said something like The Truth has barely tied its shoes before The Lie has gone around the world.

 

[Rohan]

It does drive me a little batty that these myths which were debunked 50 years ago are still prevalent. But the myth was out there for ten years before it was seriously challenged. Samuel Clements said something like The Truth has barely tied its shoes before The Lie has gone around the world.

So true.

These myths (and there's plenty of them out there) are like dynamite for the anti-vegan brigade. Any little angle they can find in some obscure, shadily funded study is amplified out of all proportion and, as you say, spreads round the world like wildfire on the socials.

All you need to do is to plant a seed in the mind with a grain of truth in there. People are so easily led.

Maybe us vegans should employ the same tactics.

 

[Lou]

So true.

These myths (and there's plenty of them out there) are like dynamite for the anti-vegan brigade

The "Incomplete protein" myth may be the most innocuous. It was started by a vegetarian. She explained that she thought people wouldn't believe it was so easy to be a vegetarian. And I think she used a 100-year old study on rats as the scientific basis. In my book: forgivable errors.

There are worse errors. Less forgivable is what I call "lazy reporting" where the reporter doesn't check the facts and just repeats some BS. My favorite example is an article from Men's Health about soy milk causing Man Boobs. It gave the lie a lot of traction.

The worst ones are the ones where the author(s) are knowingly lying or maybe even creating a false story. Weston A. Price foundation is probably the worst. Dr. Grundy is pretty bad too.

But I don't think vegans (or anybody on the side of the angels) should use lying, misrepresentation, or anything else like that to combat the other side. If you get caught out on it you besmirch the whole movement.

In the meantime I think its up to "us" to call out falsities when we see them and then do our best to correct the perceptions.

 

[Rohan]

Agreed. My last comment was (just a little bit) tongue in cheek.

 

[Lou]

Agreed. My last comment was (just a little bit) tongue in cheek.

Yes. but it can be tempting.

I think we played around with some ideas somewhere in the VF.
I was just trying to come up with a few.
Two eggs all by themselves exceed the safe amount of cholesterol a day.
or Chicken meat contains hormones.
or Fish contain toxic heavy metals.
processed meats increase your risk of cancer.

oh. but wait. those are all true. We don't have to make up anything,

 

[alleycat]

Just to add to the protein debate, babies born with pku must live on a low protein diet to avoid brain damage and other complications. It's diagnosed by a blood test at 2 or 3 days old. Each case is different and diets are tailored to the individual. Pku is not considered a common condition but in Australia one in 10,000 births is diagnosed. There is a lot of information out there . Link to an Australian page

The PKU Diet — PKU Association

www.pkunsw.org.au

 

[Rohan]

oh. but wait. those are all true. We don't have to make up anything,

You hit the nail on the head. Well versed vegans will always come out on top in any debate because the truth is always on our side. The haters can only cling on to half truths and outright lies in their pitiful vegan-bashing escapades ... and as for the 'carnivores'.

I think I'm going a bit off point from the OP now!