Hi I was hoping to get some advice! How does everyone feel about horse riding? My daughter would like to go horse riding, I have spoken to a couple of people who I know that have horses and they say their horses love it!? Their horses do seem happy and healthy! I just think I wouldn't ride elephants or camels etc so why is it ok to ride a horse? TIA!
Horse riding
- Thread starter Naomi1990
- Start date
SapphireLightning
Forum Legend
Horses are kept in captivity for one, and the process of "breaking" them is horrendous. Riders can cause back problems for the horse. Natural wild horses enjoy running freely for much of the time they aren't grazing in their herd, captive non-free horses are usually kept in small fields for grazing and kept inside much of the time. They only get to go anywhere when a human is sitting on their backs, and where and how fast that human wants them to go.
For some reason this old comic popped in to my head. LOL
For some reason this old comic popped in to my head. LOL
TofuRobot
Forum Legend
I found this video helpful:
It probably has the most downvotes of all her videos... Fairly controversial topic, I think. I do think she makes a lot of sense. Good luck with your decision - as someone who grew up riding horses and absolutely loves it (haven't ridden in a few years, and not since being vegan, but I haven't been presented with the option, either). I do have a old and dear friend who has a few horses that I know will ask me to go for a ride when I visit (she's 3,000 miles away). I struggle with how I'm going to handle the situation. I don't want her to feel bad for riding, but I'm not sure I believe in it anymore... :/
Edited to add - I think the people who ride will argue that riding elephants and camels is not a good comparison since those animals because they are treated horrifically and hired out and used as 'tourist attractions,' whereas I think *most* people who own and ride horses tend to take very good care of their animals. I mention this not to say that I condone it, but that's what the argument is for them. .... I think at the end of the day, there is something in our nature that we need to learn how to let go of, and that's the idea that we own any animal. A child's first instinct when they see a cute animal seems to be "I want one!" What is that about, I wonder? Why do we feel we have to take possession of a creature in order to love him/her? Why can't we learn to love them in their own natural habitat?
It probably has the most downvotes of all her videos... Fairly controversial topic, I think. I do think she makes a lot of sense. Good luck with your decision - as someone who grew up riding horses and absolutely loves it (haven't ridden in a few years, and not since being vegan, but I haven't been presented with the option, either). I do have a old and dear friend who has a few horses that I know will ask me to go for a ride when I visit (she's 3,000 miles away). I struggle with how I'm going to handle the situation. I don't want her to feel bad for riding, but I'm not sure I believe in it anymore... :/
Edited to add - I think the people who ride will argue that riding elephants and camels is not a good comparison since those animals because they are treated horrifically and hired out and used as 'tourist attractions,' whereas I think *most* people who own and ride horses tend to take very good care of their animals. I mention this not to say that I condone it, but that's what the argument is for them. .... I think at the end of the day, there is something in our nature that we need to learn how to let go of, and that's the idea that we own any animal. A child's first instinct when they see a cute animal seems to be "I want one!" What is that about, I wonder? Why do we feel we have to take possession of a creature in order to love him/her? Why can't we learn to love them in their own natural habitat?
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Lou
Forum Legend
For me, this is a grey area. I've noticed that PETA has guidelines that they want to use for "humane horse racing". so even they don't seem to want to abolish horse riding.
I think all working and companion animals fall into this grey area. I've gotten to know a few police dogs and I've always got the impression that going to work was fun for them. Oh, boy we get to ride in the car. And meet people. and sniff things. Training is like a game to them. and there are toys and treats! and naps.
There may be some anthropomorphizing on my part but people like to have a purpose, feel needed, accomplish things, get attention. I think animals might share some of those things too.
When i was a teen I had a summer job at a stable. Some of the horses were rentals. You rented a horse and went out for a ride. and some of the horses were tenants and their owners came by and rode them as often as they could. But for the most part we would take care of them. The horses had a stable they slept in at night. but they all went outside to the big pasture in the day where they could graze and exercise.
The thing is, and again I may be mistaking conditioning for thought, but I always thought the horses were glad to see me. But again that might have been conditioning. I was the human that fed them. The ones that were going to be ridden I tried to saddle and bridle them before they left the stalls. Once they were in the pasture they sometimes like to play tag and run from me. but there were always a few that would come when I called. and once I got a few saddled the rest would show up and allow me to saddle them without playing tag. that might have been conditioning or herd instinct. the ones without saddles were going to be left behind. But back then I always got the impression that they enjoyed their daily trips.
Later on after college, I got to observe a horse logging operation. When I would stop the crew so I could talk to them the humans were always glad to shoot the **** with me. But the horses seemed impatient to get back to work. I always got the impression that their stomping and snorting could be interpreted as, "get out of the way buster, these logs aren't going to get down the hill by themselves." and the owners told me that the horses were always happy to get to work each morning.
Another consideration is domestication. Dogs have been domesticated for tens of thousands of years. and people have evolved with them. Fun fact. when a mother looks into a baby's eyes both mother and child have an increase of the "trust" or "love" hormone. We can detect similar increases in dogs and their owners. (1) I think my sister's pug/mix is much happier living with my sister than "in the wild".
Horses have also been domesticated for thousands of years. and I have first-hand experience of how much care a horse needs. I know there are wild horses and feral horses and maybe if horses could choose to be wild they would. but just like dogs, I think we can form a partnership with horses where both individuals can benefit.
Like many things I don't think you can apply any hard and fast rules. Observe, research and make your own decision.
www.smithsonianmag.com
I think all working and companion animals fall into this grey area. I've gotten to know a few police dogs and I've always got the impression that going to work was fun for them. Oh, boy we get to ride in the car. And meet people. and sniff things. Training is like a game to them. and there are toys and treats! and naps.
There may be some anthropomorphizing on my part but people like to have a purpose, feel needed, accomplish things, get attention. I think animals might share some of those things too.
When i was a teen I had a summer job at a stable. Some of the horses were rentals. You rented a horse and went out for a ride. and some of the horses were tenants and their owners came by and rode them as often as they could. But for the most part we would take care of them. The horses had a stable they slept in at night. but they all went outside to the big pasture in the day where they could graze and exercise.
The thing is, and again I may be mistaking conditioning for thought, but I always thought the horses were glad to see me. But again that might have been conditioning. I was the human that fed them. The ones that were going to be ridden I tried to saddle and bridle them before they left the stalls. Once they were in the pasture they sometimes like to play tag and run from me. but there were always a few that would come when I called. and once I got a few saddled the rest would show up and allow me to saddle them without playing tag. that might have been conditioning or herd instinct. the ones without saddles were going to be left behind. But back then I always got the impression that they enjoyed their daily trips.
Later on after college, I got to observe a horse logging operation. When I would stop the crew so I could talk to them the humans were always glad to shoot the **** with me. But the horses seemed impatient to get back to work. I always got the impression that their stomping and snorting could be interpreted as, "get out of the way buster, these logs aren't going to get down the hill by themselves." and the owners told me that the horses were always happy to get to work each morning.
Another consideration is domestication. Dogs have been domesticated for tens of thousands of years. and people have evolved with them. Fun fact. when a mother looks into a baby's eyes both mother and child have an increase of the "trust" or "love" hormone. We can detect similar increases in dogs and their owners. (1) I think my sister's pug/mix is much happier living with my sister than "in the wild".
Horses have also been domesticated for thousands of years. and I have first-hand experience of how much care a horse needs. I know there are wild horses and feral horses and maybe if horses could choose to be wild they would. but just like dogs, I think we can form a partnership with horses where both individuals can benefit.
Like many things I don't think you can apply any hard and fast rules. Observe, research and make your own decision.
Dog Gazes Hijack the Brain's Maternal Bonding System
When a dog looks into your eyes, it's bonding with you in the same way babies bond with their human moms
that comic strip fits perfectly, the main problem I have is the lack of choice on the animals part. no animal chooses to have someone ride them. but then I start thinking about my dogs and how when out for walks they wear a harness and a lead and they don't get to choose where to go. my older dog can go off lead as she always comes back but our new puppy obviously has to stay on the lead until she learns. it bothers me that with horse riding it seems one sided, like when animals work together in nature it is for the benefit of both parties but when humans 'partner' with animals it is usually more in favour of what the human wants or needs.Horses are kept in captivity for one, and the process of "breaking" them is horrendous. Riders can cause back problems for the horse. Natural wild horses enjoy running freely for much of the time they aren't grazing in their herd, captive non-free horses are usually kept in small fields for grazing and kept inside much of the time. They only get to go anywhere when a human is sitting on their backs, and where and how fast that human wants them to go.
For some reason this old comic popped in to my head. LOL
I know a girl who owns horses and rides them and she says that her horse always gets excited when she comes to the stables but the people who work at the stables even though they are the ones feeding her do not get the same reaction so I do think there is a bond there.For me, this is a grey area. I've noticed that PETA has guidelines that they want to use for "humane horse racing". so even they don't seem to want to abolish horse riding.
I think all working and companion animals fall into this grey area. I've gotten to know a few police dogs and I've always got the impression that going to work was fun for them. Oh, boy we get to ride in the car. And meet people. and sniff things. Training is like a game to them. and there are toys and treats! and naps.
There may be some anthropomorphizing on my part but people like to have a purpose, feel needed, accomplish things, get attention. I think animals might share some of those things too.
When i was a teen I had a summer job at a stable. Some of the horses were rentals. You rented a horse and went out for a ride. and some of the horses were tenants and their owners came by and rode them as often as they could. But for the most part we would take care of them. The horses had a stable they slept in at night. but they all went outside to the big pasture in the day where they could graze and exercise.
The thing is, and again I may be mistaking conditioning for thought, but I always thought the horses were glad to see me. But again that might have been conditioning. I was the human that fed them. The ones that were going to be ridden I tried to saddle and bridle them before they left the stalls. Once they were in the pasture they sometimes like to play tag and run from me. but there were always a few that would come when I called. and once I got a few saddled the rest would show up and allow me to saddle them without playing tag. that might have been conditioning or herd instinct. the ones without saddles were going to be left behind. But back then I always got the impression that they enjoyed their daily trips.
Later on after college, I got to observe a horse logging operation. When I would stop the crew so I could talk to them the humans were always glad to shoot the **** with me. But the horses seemed impatient to get back to work. I always got the impression that their stomping and snorting could be interpreted as, "get out of the way buster, these logs aren't going to get down the hill by themselves." and the owners told me that the horses were always happy to get to work each morning.
Another consideration is domestication. Dogs have been domesticated for tens of thousands of years. and people have evolved with them. Fun fact. when a mother looks into a baby's eyes both mother and child have an increase of the "trust" or "love" hormone. We can detect similar increases in dogs and their owners. (1) I think my sister's pug/mix is much happier living with my sister than "in the wild".
Horses have also been domesticated for thousands of years. and I have first-hand experience of how much care a horse needs. I know there are wild horses and feral horses and maybe if horses could choose to be wild they would. but just like dogs, I think we can form a partnership with horses where both individuals can benefit.
Like many things I don't think you can apply any hard and fast rules. Observe, research and make your own decision.
Dog Gazes Hijack the Brain's Maternal Bonding System
When a dog looks into your eyes, it's bonding with you in the same way babies bond with their human moms
yes I had read that online about how dogs produce oxytocin when they look at us just the same as when a mother and child look at each other which I think is so beautiful. I know my 2 wee dogs get so excited when they see us and they love nothing more than snuggling up with us on the sofa. My friend suggested going round a few stables to get a feel for the place and see how the horses are.
I agree 100% about us having a need to own something! we are a very strange species! other creatures don't go around forcing other species into servitude. Animals don't stand a chance, like look at the way we treat each other! it's very sad seeing people treat animals like they don't have the same needs and emotions as we do. I honestly cannot make up my mind
Lou
Forum Legend
I agree 100% about us having a need to own something! we are a very strange species! other creatures don't go around forcing other species into servitude. Animals don't stand a chance, like look at the way we treat each other! it's very sad seeing people treat animals like they don't have the same needs and emotions as we do. I honestly cannot make up my mind
I read about a tribe of baboons that steal puppies from their mothers and raise them with the tribe. the dogs become the tribe's sentries and guards.
I thought maybe I should look that up and it turns out that the baboons/dog relationship is not well documented. but I also learned that there is a monkey that lives symbiotically with wolves.
This then brings up a question in my mind. How far back to dogs and people go? Did it start just 10,000 years ago or maybe even earlier. It might not just be a Homo sapiens thing.
I think it depends on the horse. Many horses enjoy going places, seeing new sights. Depriving them of that is no less cruel than depriving dogs of walks because you don't like leashes.
Some horses love the company of humans. Depriving them of that is no less cruel than depriving a dog of petting.
Meeting a nonhuman's needs for stimulation, companionship and affection is more important than what any individual human thinks is ethical in the abstract.
Some horses love the company of humans. Depriving them of that is no less cruel than depriving a dog of petting.
Meeting a nonhuman's needs for stimulation, companionship and affection is more important than what any individual human thinks is ethical in the abstract.
