High Levels of Triglycerides-Raw vegan diet

Jedex

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Hi all,
I went on a fully raw vegan diet (Fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds no sprouts, absolutely no processed foods) for 31 days and most of the time my blood pressure was low as 10/6 and I felt terrible all the time,I couldn’t go for a walk I felt my heart didn't do well... on day 31 I had a blood test and my Triglyceride was 348 and SGPT(alt) was 58 (Cholesterol 150, HDL 39, LDL 41, Total lipid 498) . I had my right hand a little swollen too for a week(It comes and goes) and frankly I am terrified now. After that I have added a veggie soup meal everyday and now its about day 37, blood pressure is a bit better. But why total lipid is way too high?
Any advices would be appreciated.
Thanks for reading.
 

Emma JC

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There are very few, if any, raw vegans on this site, you are more likely to find Starchivores like me.

I first looked at eating raw, years ago, and attempted it a few times for a very short period of time.

It is not sustainable, IMO, for most people, nor is it enjoyable, in my opinion.

I love my pasta and potatoes and rice and cooked veggies so although I sympathize with you I do not support or believe that it is healthy unless you are under strict medical supervision.

welcome to the forum!

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com
 
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David3

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Hi Jedex,

Mainstream vegan organizations generally recommend a mixed diet of legumes (cooked beans and/or lentils), cooked whole grains, vegetables, fruits, and nuts/seeds. Is there a reason why you are especially interested in a completely raw diet?
 
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Lou

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I, too, looked into Raw and rejected it. Like Emma I thought it was too hard. Also after further research I found it isn't The Best.

One thing that I figured out was for me to get the correct nutrients, protein being the main concern, I would have to eat more calories than presently and therefore would have to exercise a lot or gain weight.

Seems like all the big proponents of Raw have very active lifestyles and consume more than average number of calories.

And although there are many nutrients lost thru cooking. there are a lot of nutrients that are made more available throughout cooking.

Now, I prefer a diet that does include a lot of raw food but not All.

Based on my limited knowledge your experience seems very unusual and not something anyone would expect.

You probably should talk to your doctor.
 

shyvas

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Nonetheless, I would consult a qualified medical doctor. I wouldn't try to get advice on an online forum.

A gentle reminder:

''We do not provide medical advice. Information which includes sharing personal experiences or advise on this web site should never replace a doctor’s or other qualified clinician’s advice and recommendations. Patients should not use the information contained herein for diagnosing a health or fitness problem or disease. A doctor or other qualified clinician is the best resource to consult regarding what is best for medical conditions, for diagnosis, medical advice and treatment.''
 
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Jedex

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Thank you guys, so informative and heartwarming.
I went on a raw vegan diet because I have been invited by my friend and then I read some books that explained ALKALINE blood heals and prevents many diseases and some could achieve that by always eat raw fruits and vegetables and some raw nuts and seeds, and that cooking causes plenty of diseases by turning your blood into ACIDIC don’t matter animal or vegan products. I have many fatty lipomas in my body that they say will be disappeared after 6 months of going raw vegan and also I wanted to lose some weight too.
There are plenty of people that are almost raw vegan that I know and therefore I decided to gave it a chance.

Actually I found these videos and I’ll put them here maybe useful for some. (Triglyceride going high in a fruit based diet)


Again thank you guys. Much appreciated.

Youtube link: Dr. Gundry explains (fast forward to 6:40)

Youtube link: High Triglyceride on a plant based diet
 

Lou

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I think the alkaline diet is mostly a fad. However I'm pretty sure that eating more fruits and veggies and less dairy and meat is a good thing. I recommend you do a little more research. There is not that much science that backs up the alkaline diet.

I do have some REAL issues with Dr. Gundry. I was exposed to the ideas of the Plant Paradox in some infomercial that I watched to the end. I couldn't believe it, OMG! Is everthing I thought I knew wrong. For me, it was a Firesign Theatre moment.

So I started up a little google research. I found a number of articles that were critical of Gundry. That he is on "QuackWatch" and The Plant Paradox is Not Recommended by a number of associations.

But the most damning review came from one of my favorite "Diet Doctors", Dr. Gregar (video below)

I watched that second guy and liked him. And maybe of particular interest to you is what he said about eating large amounts of fruit. Keep in mind that that was at the bottom of the list.

 
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Jedex

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I think the alkaline diet is mostly a fad. However I'm pretty sure that eating more fruits and veggies and less dairy and meat is a good thing. I recommend you do a little more research. There is not that much science that backs up the alkaline diet.

I do have some REAL issues with Dr. Gundry. I was exposed to the ideas of the Plant Paradox in some infomercial that I watched to the end. I couldn't believe it, OMG! Is everthing I thought I knew wrong. For me, it was a Firesign Theatre moment.

So I started up a little google research. I found a number of articles that were critical of Gundry. That he is on "QuackWatch" and The Plant Paradox is Not Recommended by a number of associations.

But the most damning review came from one of my favorite "Diet Doctors", Dr. Gregar (video below)

I watched that second guy and liked him. And maybe of particular interest to you is what he said about eating large amounts of fruit. Keep in mind that that was at the bottom of the list.

Thanks Lou!
Yeah me too, I don’t follow Dr. Gundry’s diet at all just listening to these kind of podcasts and also Dr. Ekberg etc.
I mentioned him because the result of that particular research he had done was exactly what I’ve faced these days after more than a month of Raw vegan diet.
I’ll check the video totally and thanks a million for the reply.
 
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David3

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Hi Jedex,

One should be wary of the claims found in popular books, forums, and YouTube videos.


There are a couple dozen peer-reviewed studies on raw and nearly-raw vegan diets (see below), but none of these studies are large. Some of these studies found that raw vegan diets can improve symptoms of rheumatoid arthritis and fibromyalgia. None of the studies found that raw vegan diets cure fatty lipomas.


1) An uncooked vegan diet shifts the profile of human fecal microflora:
computerized analysis of direct stool sample gas-liquid chromatography
profiles of bacterial cellular fatty acids., Appl Environ Microbiol 1992
Nov;58(11):3660-6

GLC profiles changed significantly in the test group after the induction and discontinuation of the vegan diet but not in the control group at any time, whereas quantitative bacterial culture did not detect any significant change in fecal bacteriology in either of the groups. The results suggest that an uncooked extreme vegan diet alters the fecal bacterial flora significantly when it is measured by direct stool sample GLC of bacterial fatty acids .

2) Antioxidant status in long-term adherents to a strict uncooked vegan
diet., Am J Clin Nutr 1995 Dec;62(6):1221-7

The present data indicate that the "living food diet" provides significantly more dietary antioxidants than does the cooked, omnivorous diet, and that the long-term adherents to this diet have a better antioxidant status than do omnivorous control subjects.

3) Antioxidants in vegan diet and rheumatic disorders., Toxicology 2000
Nov 30;155(1-3):45-53

The shift of fibromyalgic subjects to LF resulted in a decrease of their joint stiffness and pain as well as an improvement of their self-experienced health. The rheumatoid arthritis patients eating the LF diet also reported similar positive responses and the objective measures supported this finding. The improvement of rheumatoid arthritis was significantly correlated with the day-to-day fluctuation of subjective symptoms. In conclusion the rheumatoid patients subjectively benefited from the vegan diet rich in antioxidants, lactobacilli and fibre, and this was also seen in objective measures.

4) Consequences of a long-term raw food diet on body weight and menstruation: results of a questionnaire survey., Ann Nutr Metab 1999;43(2):69-79

CONCLUSIONS: The consumption of a raw food diet is associated with a high loss of body weight. Since many raw food dieters exhibited underweight and amenorrhea, a very strict raw food diet cannot be recommended on a long-term basis.

5) Coumarin 7-hydroxylation in long-term adherents of a strict uncooked
vegan diet., Eur J Clin Pharmacol 1996;50(1-2):133-7

CONCLUSION: According to the present study, the clearly different dietary patterns and nutrient intakes between the vegans and the omnivores resulted in similar extent and rate of 7-hydroxycoumarin formation, indicating only a minor effect on coumarin hydroxylase (CYP2A6) activity by the plant substances in the uncooked vegan diet.

6) Dental erosions in subjects living on a raw food diet., Caries Res
1999;33(1):74-80

Nevertheless, the results showed that a raw food diet bears an increased risk of dental erosion compared to conventional nutrition.

7) Divergent changes in serum sterols during a strict uncooked vegan diet in patients with rheumatoid arthritis., Br J Nutr 2001 Feb;85(2):137-9

Our results suggest that a strict uncooked vegan diet changes the relative absorption rates of these sterols and/or their biliary clearance.

8) Effect of a strict vegan diet on energy and nutrient intakes by Finnish rheumatoid patients., Eur J Clin Nutr 1993 Oct;47(10):747-9

Shifting to the uncooked vegan diet significantly increased the intakes of energy and many nutrients. In spite of the increased energy intake, the group on the vegan diet lost 9% of their body weight during the intervention period, indicating a low availability of energy from the vegan diet.

9) Effect of a vegan diet on biomarkers of chemoprevention in females., Hum Exp Toxicol 1996 Oct;15(10):821-5

The significance of these changes as biologically relevant indicators of beneficial effects of vegan diets in humans needs to be determined in studies with a larger number of subjects.

10) Effects of a raw food diet on hypertension and obesity., South Med J 1985 Jul;78(7):841-4

After a mean duration of 6.7 months, average intake of uncooked food comprised 62% of calories ingested. Mean weight loss was 3.8 kg and mean diastolic pressure reduction 17.8 mm Hg, both statistically significant (P less than .00001). Eighty percent of those who smoked or drank alcohol abstained spontaneously.

11) Effects of eating an uncooked vegetable diet for 1 week., Appetite 1992 Dec;19(3):243-54

It is concluded that this vegetable diet may be of some benefit in the short term but any longer-term use requires evaluation.

12) Faecal microbial flora and disease activity in rheumatoid arthritis during a vegan diet., Br J Rheumatol 1997 Jan;36(1):64-8

We conclude that a vegan diet changes the faecal microbial flora in RA patients, and changes in the faecal flora are associated with improvement in RA activity.

13) Fatty acid composition of erythrocyte, platelet, and serum lipids in strict vegans., Lipids 1995 Apr;30(4):365-9

The results show that, in the long term, the vegan diet has little effect on the proportions of oleic and arachidonic acids, whereas the levels of n-3 fatty acids are depressed to very low levels with prolonged consumption of the high linoleic and oleic acid components of this diet.

14) Fibromyalgia syndrome improved using a mostly raw vegetarian diet: An observational study., BMC Complement Altern Med 2001;1(1):7

CONCLUSION: This dietary intervention shows that many fibromyalgia subjects can be helped by a mostly raw vegetarian diet.

15) Metabolic vitamin B12 status on a mostly raw vegan diet with follow-up using tablets, nutritional yeast, or probiotic supplements., Ann Nutr Metab 2000;44(5-6):229-34

People following the Hallelujah diet and other raw-food vegetarian diets should regularly monitor their urinary MMA levels, consume a sublingual cobalamin supplement, or consume cobalamin in their food.

16) Raw food and immunity, Fortschr Med 1990 Jun 10;108(17):338-40

In view of this, uncooked food can be seen as a useful adjunct to drugs in the treatment of allergic, rheumatic and infectious diseases.

17) Raw Food Eaters: Health Habits and Nutrient Intake(FULL TEXT), Poster for the 16th International Congress of Nutrition, 27.7-1.8.1997, Montreal, Canada

The data show that an almost exclusive consumption of raw fruit and vegetables bear some advantages for nutrient intake but also may carry the threat of serious deficiencies. These findings need to be verified by analyses of nutrient status, a further aspect of this study which is currently under way.

18) Shifting from a conventional diet to an uncooked vegan diet reversibly alters fecal hydrolytic activities in humans., J Nutr 1992 Apr;122(4):924-30

Results suggest that this uncooked extreme vegan diet causes a decrease in bacterial enzymes and certain toxic products that have been implicated in colon cancer risk.

19) Survey of Food and Nutrient Intake of Hallelujah Vegetarians, Nutrition & Food Science 2001;31(6):293-303

What this study reveals is that intakes of most vitamins and minerals are adequate while following The Hallelujah Diet. Only vitamins B12 and D were extremely low. Hallelujah Acres recommends a vitamin B12 supplement and sunshine, the natural source of vitamin D, to make up for these low intakes.

20) Uncooked, lactobacilli-rich, vegan food and rheumatoid arthritis., Br J Rheumatol 1998 Mar;37(3):274-81

The results showed that an uncooked vegan diet, rich in lactobacilli, decreased subjective symptoms of rheumatoid arthritis. Large amounts of living lactobacilli consumed daily may also have positive effects on objective measures of rheumatoid arthritis.

21) Vegan diet alleviates fibromyalgia symptoms., Scand J Rheumatol 2000;29(5):308-13

It can be concluded that vegan diet had beneficial effects on fibromyalgia symptoms at least in the short run.

22) Vegan diet in physiological health promotion., Acta Physiol Hung 1999;86(3-4):171-80

The fibromyalgic subjects eating LF (living food) lost weight compared to their omnivorous controls. The results on their joint stiffness and pain (visual analogue scale), on their quality of sleep, on health assessment questionnaire and on general health questionnaire all improved. It appears that the adoption of vegan diet exemplified by the living food leads to a lessening of several health risk factors to cardiovascular diseases and cancer. Rheumatoid patients subjectively benefited from the vegan diet which was also seen in serum parameters and fecal analyses.

23) Vegetarian Raw Food Dietary Regimens: Health Habits and Nutrient Intake(FULL TEXT), Presented as Poster at the Third Internatiobnal Congress on Vegetarian Nutrition, Loma Linda, California USA, March 24-26 1997

The intake of nutrients that are usually provided by foods of animal origin is insufficient. These include Vitamins B12 and D, zinc and calcium. On the other hand, the intake of certain protective nutrients, such as Vitamin C and other antioxidants, lie above the national average.

24) Vitamin B-12 status of long-term adherents of a strict uncooked
vegan diet ("living food diet" is compromised., J Nutr 1995 Oct;125(10):2511-5

The cross-sectional study revealed significantly (P < 0.001, paired t test) lower serum vitamin B-12 concentrations in the vegans (mean 193 pmol/L, range 35-408) compared with their matched omnivorous controls (311, 131-482). In the vegan group, total vitamin B-12 intake correlated significantly (r = 0.63, P < 0.01) with serum vitamin B-12 concentration. The vegans consuming Nori and/or Chlorella seaweeds (n = 16) had serum vitamin B-12 concentrations twice as high as those not using these seaweeds (n = 5) (mean 221 pmol/L, range 75-408, vs. 105, 35-252, P = 0.025). In the longitudinal study, six of nine vegans showed slow, but consistent deterioration of vitamin B-12 status over a 2-y observation period. On the basis of these results we conclude that some seaweeds consumed in large amounts can supply adequate amounts of bioavailable vitamin B-12
 
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Jedex

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Wow @David3, that’s a lot of info. Thanks!
and yes, those who are on a raw vegan diet usually don’t believe much in science (at least those that I know). They don’t wear masks nor took vaccines and all of them are fine! I don’t know if it’s because of the diet or it depends on their own chances.
I’ve seen several diabetic guys healed by going raw vegan for three months(not ordinary raw vegan diet at first month though, very very strict)
another guy with very high blood pressure, no more medicine needed (his doctor told him). Kind of interesting.
Some of them make distilled water and drink that and believe that it is very good for their health too…
It’s very complicated actually.

Thanks again @David3 !
 
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David3

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Wow @David3, that’s a lot of info. Thanks!
and yes, those who are on a raw vegan diet usually don’t believe much in science (at least those that I know). They don’t wear masks nor took vaccines and all of them are fine! I don’t know if it’s because of the diet or it depends on their own chances.
I’ve seen several diabetic guys healed by going raw vegan for three months(not ordinary raw vegan diet at first month though, very very strict)
another guy with very high blood pressure, no more medicine needed (his doctor told him). Kind of interesting.
Some of them make distilled water and drink that and believe that it is very good for their health too…
It’s very complicated actually.

Thanks again @David3 !
.
Hi Jedex,

The peer-reviewed medical literature includes several studies showing that whole-food, plant-based diets (not necessarily raw vegan diets) can be effective for the prevention and treatment of high blood pressure and type 2 diabetes. Here are a few such peer-reviewed studies:



 

David3

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and yes, those who are on a raw vegan diet usually don’t believe much in science (at least those that I know). They don’t wear masks nor took vaccines and all of them are fine! I don’t know if it’s because of the diet or it depends on their own chances.
.
None of them wear masks or got vaccinated, and all of them are fine? I think it's difficult to prove whether they are being truthful.
.
 
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Jedex

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Thanks @David3
Yes, for diabetics they can continue to be just vegan not raw vegan, but they told that better not to... but for masks and vaccines I know many of them, some of them say that for many years they haven’t took even an Aspirin and call every medicine and every supplement and every vaccine “a poison”. They say that it is because of there Alcaline blood! which is preventing them from being ill at all, kind of an ideology. I have some non-vegan friends, they also didn’t take vaccines and they are fine too!! So it’s maybe something that doesn’t directly connected to a raw vegan diet.
Thanks again :)
 

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Triglycerides can be elevated by consuming too much fruit.

Raw food diets don't have a basis in science.

Aside from that, they tend to be nutritionally deficient.

Do NOT take my word for it. Keep a log of your meals for a few weeks at cronometer.com. You will quickly see which nutrients you aren't getting.

Look into a whole foods vegan diet where most of your calories come whole grains & legumes, then fresh produce, nuts, and seeds.

Take b-12, vegan D3, and vegan EFA supplement.

Good Luck!
 
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Lou

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Triglycerides can be elevated by consuming too much fruit.
Yes!
Raw food diets don't have a basis in science.
Not entirely true. We do "know thru science" that some nutrients are destroyed with cooking and that some nutrients are more available in raw foods. Plus the basics of the Raw food diet, veggies, fruit, nuts, and seeds are all good for you
Aside from that, they tend to be nutritionally deficient.
From my own experience that is not necessarily true either. The main issue is calories which can be an issue on any restrictive diet. Its just harder to get all your nutrients (especially protein). When protein only makes up 10% of your diet - you have to compensate with eating A Lot of calories. Most of the successful raw foodies are very very active. Freelee and Kristina are both fitness instructors.
Do NOT take my word for it. Keep a log of your meals for a few weeks at cronometer.com. You will quickly see which nutrients you aren't getting.
Always good advice.
Look into a whole foods vegan diet where most of your calories come whole grains & legumes, then fresh produce, nuts, and seeds.
Whole grains and legumes are just such good sources of nutrients. But not in a raw food diet.
Take b-12, vegan D3, and vegan EFA supplement.

Good Luck!
Yup. Always good advice
 
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VeganRachel

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Thank you guys, so informative and heartwarming.
I went on a raw vegan diet because I have been invited by my friend and then I read some books that explained ALKALINE blood heals and prevents many diseases and some could achieve that by always eat raw fruits and vegetables and some raw nuts and seeds, and that cooking causes plenty of diseases by turning your blood into ACIDIC don’t matter animal or vegan products. I have many fatty lipomas in my body that they say will be disappeared after 6 months of going raw vegan and also I wanted to lose some weight too.
There are plenty of people that are almost raw vegan that I know and therefore I decided to gave it a chance.

Actually I found these videos and I’ll put them here maybe useful for some. (Triglyceride going high in a fruit based diet)


Again thank you guys. Much appreciated.

Youtube link: Dr. Gundry explains (fast forward to 6:40)

Youtube link: High Triglyceride on a plant based diet
I am one of those few humans here who has had experience with raw foodism. I believe it is the biblical diet of our ancient
ancestors, the essene's and ebionites. There is much more nutrition and enzymes in raw versus cooked foods. However humanity
as a whole has both gotten addicted to animal flesh and blood/products, and, cooked foods. The Halleluiah diet, and, natural
hygienists, are two examples of groups that promote raw foodism.
Fasting on just water, during a supervised fast, is incredibly healing. I have done this twice. Raw food groups tend to believe in fasting.
You do need to eat ENOUGH, because raw food takes up more space in your stomach than cooked food. In other words, if you are consuming banana's, one is not enough. There are several long term raw foodists such as Dr, Gabriel Cousens, David Wolfe, Brian Clement (Hippocrates Health Institute in Florida), Markus and Cara (see video below), and others.
I never got a blood test while I was 100% raw, so I do not know why your triglicerides are high. A comparison would be, what were
they 1 month before you became raw?. You need a comparison. Also, there is no "raw" diet, everyone consumes their version of it.
Your choice of foods could make a difference. Many raw foodists consume a lot of fruit and/or nuts/fats.
Even vegans, as I am 20+ years, who are so criticized by others, seem critical of Raw vegan diets, yet they have no long-term experience with them. I find this fascinating, because so many omnivore humans criticize a vegan "diet" (vegan is also a lifestyle) without proper information or experience.
They also completely ignore the fact that as omnivores, their diet is typically lacking in multiple nutrients--but they focus on the vegan as inadequate. There is no "vegan" diet, yet so many "failed vegans" blame the diet instead of their specific food choices which can easily be inadequate.
There are "failed raw-foodists" for many reasons, just as there are millions of "failed omnivores" who become vegan and can thrive.
A raw diet can be healthy for those who make the right and balanced choices, just as a whole food (cooked) vegan diet can be. Cheers.
 
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I've did the raw food diet when I was a teenager. I read the old testament too. I don't agree with the post above.

Please, absolutely do not take my word.

Get a free account on cronometer.com.

Log your meals every day for 1-3 weeks.

Watch what nutrition you are and are NOT getting.
 
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Hi all,
I went on a fully raw vegan diet (Fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds no sprouts, absolutely no processed foods) for 31 days and most of the time my blood pressure was low as 10/6 and I felt terrible all the time,I couldn’t go for a walk I felt my heart didn't do well... on day 31 I had a blood test and my Triglyceride was 348 and SGPT(alt) was 58 (Cholesterol 150, HDL 39, LDL 41, Total lipid 498) . I had my right hand a little swollen too for a week(It comes and goes) and frankly I am terrified now. After that I have added a veggie soup meal everyday and now its about day 37, blood pressure is a bit better. But why total lipid is way too high?
Any advices would be appreciated.
Thanks for reading.
Are you also losing weight? the fat loss has to go through your bloodstream and has the effect of raising lipid levels while it's processed:

While a healthy raw food diet is achievable, it takes a whole lot more effort than eating wfpb! more effort in getting the nutrients as well as affording the foods. Quite dependent on location
 
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Jedex

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Thank you guys for the replies.
For my blood test it was very good before start eating raw foods. They told me that I am in the detoxification phase and will be for months and the blood test is not a good idea for the first several months depends on the person! I really don’t know what to say but yes there are some that say the fructose is the cause of Triglyceride going up.
I lost about a kilo in more than 30 days of raw diet.
Thanks again.