Dog Training /Views on Cesar Millan.

[mlp]

I think Milan's methods work for Milan; but IME, people who advertise themselves as training like he does tend to be one track. (And yes, positive reinforcement can likewise be taken to ridiculous lengths.) I also agree that many dogs don't have the luxury of time that *softer* methods require with some dogs.

Wolfie, you're right that Gracie is nowhere near some of the situations you've had to deal with. She's not a dog who is looking for a fight, although she tends to provoke aggressive reactions in other dogs. But I think Moll's dogs are much less problematic than Gracie, and if positive reinforcement works for her, there's no reason it wouldn't work for them. They sound as though Moll just needs to work on some very basic stuff with them.

 

[Wolfie]

I admit I didn't read all the thread, just came to defend my man Cesar based on the title, then jumped back up and read your post. Though I did send Moll a PM regarding her dogs on "the other board." I think one reason his methods work for him and not every else is the man exudes calmness no matter what is going on, which is important when dealing with dogs. I will never master that level of calmness I'm afraid.

People should use whatever method works for them and whatever they are comfortable with. What I don't like is when people say he abuses dogs, just because they don't agree with his methods. Sort of like on the spanking thread, where some people don't differentiate between a smack on the rear and someone beating their kids and call both "abuse". Just infuriates me. I've had people question my use of a prong collar before on my sister's 90 pounder who spends a lot of time with me. He was wild as anything when he came from the shelter and he is pure muscle. He can overpower many people without that collar, heck even with it when he wants to. Yet I had it on him when I took him to the vet the first time and a lady with a shar pei said something. Meanwhile her dog was slipping and sliding all over the place, pulling and not behaving at all, but obviously a regular collar worked for him because he wasn't powerful enough to pull her over. I just told her he just came from the shelter, I can't hold him without it, and I'm not sure yet what he will do with another dog (like hers which was acting all crazy). Maybe he wasn't the right dog for a couple of smallish women to take on, but he was hyper and had severe separation anxiety which caused him to eat through doors and take drapery rods right out of the wall if left alone. Most people would have taken him straight back to the shelter. I was determined to fix him. He is much better now, that's been a few years, but he's still strong as a team of oxen. And her comment bugs me to this day. I tried that collar on and gave it a tug on my own neck before I ever used it on any dog. Same with the shock collar I used on one of mine who was hell bent on herding trains and my other sister's dog who was determined to kill any cat he found. I shocked myself with it first. I don't really like shock collars at all but when a dog is going to kill itself or kill another animal without it, I see it as the lesser of 2 evils. I do not abuse dogs though there are a few humans I'd like to abuse.

 

[Wolfie]

I wasn't directing any of this at anyone here, just ranting in general. I'll probably come back later and delete it all. Just one of those nights.

 

[led.boots]

I have brought my dogs to group classes since I was a kid, and I think they are lots of fun. My dogs learned various amounts, depending on the dog and the teacher. And the classes were not expensive at all (US).

 

[Moll Flanders]

I have crate-trained and toilet-trained Molly now (thank ****!) and I'm probably going to arrange for the trainer to come round next week. I still haven't decided which guy to choose.

 

[Wolfie]

Just go with your gut feeling. And don't let a trainer take them to his place to train. While 99% of them are probably fine, I've heard horror stories about the remaining 1%. I know someone whose dog died because a trainer treated his separation anxiety the wrong way. (That's why he was sent to stay with the trainer.)

 

[Moll Flanders]

^ How did the dog die?

We just had our first session today and it went well. My Chihuahua behaved like a little angel and the JR was a bit stubborn and even the trainer had trouble handling her at times and he said it is her we need to work on the most. We took them for a walk in a lively street area that I usually avoid and it was the most relaxing walk I've had with them! There were schoolkids kicking cans down the street, shoppers, people on bikes and they didn't even bark at anyone. The only time the Chi barked was when a huge Rottweiler walked past us.

The trainer didn't charge us as it was an initial session and he must have spent over two hours with us. It was all very positive. He showed us photos on his mobile phone of other dogs he has worked with like a Pit Bull who was brought to him as the owner thought he had problems. It was so cute as the Pit bonded with a tiny Chi and then they were rehomed together.

 

[Wolfie]

The necropsy showed he died from stomach torsion. So I guess technically the trainer didn't kill the dog. While bloat could have happened anyway, especially with the dog's breed, it was in all likelihood related to being locked in a crate and left alone. Extreme stress can bring it on. Many, many dogs with SA cannot handle closed-in places. And he never should have been left overnight alone. To treat separation anxiety you start with leaving for seconds at a time and work your way up. The dog also had broken teeth from trying to chew his way out. This was a young, large dog so his teeth were in good shape. He just plain lost his marbles. And I'm not sure the trainer had any marbles to begin with. The guy felt awful but seriously, it was totally the wrong way to go about curing SA.

From you description sounds like you got an awesome trainer!

 

[Moll Flanders]

The trainer has been excellent so far and it has worked so much more then when I tried the other training methods. He thinks my JR is dominant and she is like a different dog for us after his instruction.

The dog also had broken teeth from trying to chew his way out.

Awful.

 

[Amy SF]

Dog Whisperer Cesar Millan Is Under Investigation for Animal Cruelty

...and the comments on this story are absolutely appalling.

*WARNING: GRAPHIC IMAGES IN THE COMMENT SECTION*

ETA: What kind of sick ******* puts a dog that has been known to kill a couple of pigs next to another pig and thinks the pig will be safe? I wouldn't mind booting this creep off the air.

 

[Moll Flanders]

We just had our first session today and it went well. My Chihuahua behaved like a little angel and the JR was a bit stubborn and even the trainer had trouble handling her at times and he said it is her we need to work on the most. We took them for a walk in a lively street area that I usually avoid and it was the most relaxing walk I've had with them! There were schoolkids kicking cans down the street, shoppers, people on bikes and they didn't even bark at anyone. The only time the Chi barked was when a huge Rottweiler walked past us.

That is so funny to read now as I remember that walk with my dogs so clearly!

I think the first trainer I used was okay, although we did go for a group trainer after that. I thought my dogs acted very weirdly when I first adopted them, but I think both of the dog trainers helped me understand the behaviour of dogs better. I was so used to felines before that.

ETA - the second trainer I used really wasn't a fan of Cesar Millan.

Dog Whisperer Cesar Millan Is Under Investigation for Animal Cruelty

...and the comments on this story are absolutely appalling.

 

[ledboots]

I watched that show once and cringed. I didn't like the way he acted around the animals. Plus those stabby collars.

 

[Moll Flanders]

I'm not absolutely sure, but think the non-humane collars are banned over here.