Confused and upset :'(

[BronwynMendoza]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to be putting this and I'm sorry in advance if it's not, I just need a wee bit of guidance from others in the same boat. Sometimes when speaking to omnivores they come away with the most hateful and ridiculous comments that I feel torn between screaming, bursting into tears or grabbing them by the throat. However I always end up leaving the situation to go home and cry/rant to my partner or dogs instead. I just get so frustrated and miserable that I don't want to talk to them anymore. There are wonderful people in the world who go all out to spread awareness of veganism and I admire them to no end but all I wish for is to not crumple when the conversation turns nasty and grow a tougher hide. I guess what I'm asking is when omi's get really defensive, ignorant and hateful about your life choices how do you handle it? I never seem to bring up being vegan but as soon as people find out they react like I've just punched them in the face! It was never this bad when I was just a vegetarian.
Sorry for rambling, it's been a tough day.
Any advice at all is warmly appreciated.
Bronwyn x

 

[Andy_T]

Bronwyn,

sorry to hear about it, yes, it is a situation most of us know all too well.

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Not much more to add to that. Only that you can come back to us (virtually) for moral support.

Best regards,
Andy

 

[PTree15]

First off, I'm sorry you have to deal with such rude, nasty people, Bronwyn. People have different ways of handling this sort of frustration. I have mostly been fortunate enough to have had to deal with only a few less-than-supportive judgmental friends and gentle ribbing from family members. What I try to remember when omnis have gotten into attack mode is why I became vegan...for the animals. When I think about the hideous suffering and torture they are forced to endure, I figure I can endure the antagonism from fellow humans. That's probably not that helpful, but that's what I do whenever I feel overwhelmed with the choices omnis continue to make just so they can satisfy their taste buds.

 

[AlexBee]

I'm not sure if you have already heard of this or not... but when I first made the switch I listened to Colleen Patrick Godreau's podcast called "Vegetarian Food for Thought". She is incredibly well spoken and has episodes titled based on specific situations. Some of them are about having conversations with meat eaters. Her tips and examples really helped me! I'm not outgoing and I had a really hard time just like you before I found her podcast. She gave me the ability to "plan" my answers to common questions and talk in a way that was much more calm. Anyways... I hope this helps! The podcast is free and I hope you are able to check it out!

 

[Calliegirl]

This quote from Gary Smith is so true. It's their guilt over eating animals when you've stopped that makes them defensive, and want to try to make you feel as miserable as they do. Sometimes remembering that helps when dealing with their nonsense.

"Being vegan is offensive to people who eat animals. When people meet vegans, they become aware in that moment that they eat animals. Rarely do they have to confront this truth. People become uncomfortable and place that feeling on the vegan. Their own sense of mercy and compassion arises and makes them uneasy. Mercy asks of you to abstain from this cruelty."
- Gary Smith

 

[Clueless Git]

Any advice at all is warmly appreciated.
Bronwyn x

Here, have a for starters.

Do you fancy posting a few of the things you find hardest so we can all share our own ways of dealing with them, Bronwyn?

 

[KLS52]

This quote from Gary Smith is so true. It's their guilt over eating animals when you've stopped that makes them defensive, and want to try to make you feel as miserable as they do. Sometimes remembering that helps when dealing with their nonsense.

This.

 

[BronwynMendoza]

Thankyou all so very much! It helps more than I can say to know I'm not the only one who finds it hard speaking up. You're all so wonderful and all the advice given has made me understand the aggression my veganism seems to bring out in some people.

Here, have a for starters.

Do you fancy posting a few of the things you find hardest so we can all share our own ways of dealing with them, Bronwyn?

^ thankyou clueless, there's never a bad excuse for a hug - *squeeze!* virtual or otherwise! Some of the choice phrases I was having massive difficulty dealing with were...

1. "Well I'll just have to eat double the burgers on your behalf, then maybe you'll realise one smelly hippy can't make any difference!"

2. "They (farm animals) are only here to be eaten, they have no other purpose"

3. "Do you just eat twigs and sand then? (Started talking of a soup recipe I was making that evening) Nope, all I heard there was twigs and sand!"

4. "They don't feel any pain, they are just there for food"

5. "Your dogs are going to starve and die with you feeding them that shite! (yarrah veggie dog food)"

 

[Calliegirl]

Thankyou all so very much! It helps more than I can say to know I'm not the only one who finds it hard speaking up. You're all so wonderful and all the advice given has made me understand the aggression my veganism seems to bring out in some people.



1. "Well I'll just have to eat double the burgers on your behalf, then maybe you'll realise one smelly hippy can't make any difference!"

When an ex heard I became vegan (I was vegetarian when we were together) he said he was going to eat twice as much meat to make up for it. I told him to enjoy his heart attack.
He ended up becoming a vegetarian (hasn't made the jump to vegan because of cheese) and told me he only said all those things because he was feeling guilty. He told me how his family had started making fun of him since becoming a vegetarian like he used to do to me and apologized for it since he now knew how it felt.

 

[Second Summer]

All classics, Bronwyn!

Just hang in there, it's only just started!

"But where do you get your protein?!"
"But where do you get your calcium?!"
"But where will all the animals go when people stop eating them?! They will soon be flooding the Earth!"
"But where will the animals find any food when people eat all the vegetables?!"

Before long, these kinds of comments will be like water off a duck's back. A lot of them are too silly to even bother responding to, and deep down they know it. A suitably jaded facial expression is sufficient response in such cases.

 

[Andy_T]

I would suggest everybody to have a look at the books "Eat like you care: An examination of the morality of eating animals" by Gary Francione and Anna Carlton and "Mind if I order the Cheeseburger?: And other questions that people ask vegans" by Sherry Colb.

Both books cover all the (real) questions that people normally get asked and provide answers. As the authors are all law professors, the books might be a bit on the "intellectual" side, but I assure you, they are all perfectly readable and very helpful.

Best regards,
Andy

 

[Andy_T]

1. "Well I'll just have to eat double the burgers on your behalf, then maybe you'll realise one smelly hippy can't make any difference!"

Enjoy your heart attack, as Calliegirl already suggested.

4. "They don't feel any pain, they are just there for food"

Do you REALLY believe that? Did you ever see what happens if somebody accidentally steps on a cats or dogs tail?
What do you deduce from that observation?

5. "Your dogs are going to starve and die with you feeding them that shite! (yarrah veggie dog food)"

You might mention to them that the Bramble, the dog that once held the Guinness world record for being the oldest living dog in the world (died at 27 years, which would be equivalent to 189 "dog years") was fed an exclusively vegan diet.


But, to be honest, IMO the most important part is to question whether the other person is really interested in learning something or if they are just trying to be rude. In those cases, ignoring their remarks might be the wiser choice.

 

[Clueless Git]

Thankyou all so very much! It helps more than I can say to know I'm not the only one who finds it hard speaking up. You're all so wonderful and all the advice given has made me understand the aggression my veganism seems to bring out in some people.



^ thankyou clueless, there's never a bad excuse for a hug - *squeeze!* virtual or otherwise! Some of the choice phrases I was having massive difficulty dealing with were...

1. "Well I'll just have to eat double the burgers on your behalf, then maybe you'll realise one smelly hippy can't make any difference!"

2. "They (farm animals) are only here to be eaten, they have no other purpose"

3. "Do you just eat twigs and sand then? (Started talking of a soup recipe I was making that evening) Nope, all I heard there was twigs and sand!"

4. "They don't feel any pain, they are just there for food"

5. "Your dogs are going to starve and die with you feeding them that shite! (yarrah veggie dog food)"

Ahhh, those are all "I just got hurt so I'm gonna hurt straight back" kinda snipes.

I think your simply getting "keep yapping with the pack or the pack will yap at you" type warnings here, Bronwyn.

On the upside; That sorta means that your friends/acquaintances/whatever place a high value on you as a group/pack member. They're afraid that if they can't keep you in line with their group/pack-think then they'll lose you.

On the downside; It means that you've either got to tell them to F.O. or start looking on them as 'unruly pets' more so than as friends.

Personaly I'd be taking a "reward the good behaviour; ignore the bad" approach with such people.

A gentle/condescending/understanding smile, turn your back even, if they say something dumb; A 'tummy-rub' in the form of a bit of information/explanation if having the dumb-**** ignored causes them to come up with something more intelligent.

 

[Clueless Git]

4. "They don't feel any pain, they are just there for food"

My Dad pulled this one, in the form of "animals don't suffer", with my son. Coupled with "even the WHO (the health people, not the band, obviously) say that humans can't get proper nutrition from a diet that has no meat in it".

My son, a vegetarian from birth and built like a brick out-house, had just recently found a deep compassion towards animals after (finaly) learning to love our pet cat. He also has a deep aversion to being told he is under-nutrified on the very reasonable basis that he VERY clearly isn't.

Oh boy! Did the 'doo-doo' hit the fan ...

 

[Dedalus]

There should be a vegan bootcamp repository of knowledge somewhere. I mean, there are many such places already on the interwebs, but they differ in terms of the responses and often you have to wade through and dissect the specific information you're looking for. It'd be nice to have a centralized location where vegans, especially new vegans can go to arm / educate themselves for the inevitable battles ahead. Lists of movies/books/scenarios/questions/answers/facts etc.

The key is to not simply have a quick, biting retort but a depth of knowledge behind that. Possession of the knowledge itself will help you to articulate yourself in a way that will allow you to neutralize any given situation. As noted by others, you really need to consider your audience as well. Intelligent individuals will struggle with the facts when you present them, whereas trolls will just look for another spot to poke you and it won't really matter what you say. Also look for even intelligent people to resort to base attacks when confronted with facts and knowledge that make them uncomfortable.

Stay strong and fight the good fight. If you don't have an immediate answer or response to a certain situation or question be sure to research it for the next time. There will come a time when you will have cycled through all the various omni arguments so many times that they will just come naturally to you. The facts are on our side. Since most people claim they 'love' animals (be it a speciesist approach, IE: dogs / cats) you already likely will have that in your corner. Presenting the information in the clearest, most succinct way possible is the biggest bat you can wield.

 

[Andy_T]

Typically you have two ways to answer (3 if you count ignore) ... a snappy/biting/funny answer or a calm and thoughtful one.

IMO, while the snappy/biting/funny might be cool on many occasions and make people with you chuckle, the calm and thoughtful one would always be appropriate, and there will be many occasions where your conversation partner is hiding his bad conscience and insecurity behind biting wit, but receiving a friendly and thoughtful answer might get him to actually rethink, even if he did not consider that before.

So I personally am working on treating every discussion as a possibility to display friendly, calm and thoughtful arguments that should be concise and not "preaching"/"proselityzing" etc. I am working on it

One simple trick that can help here is to preface your answer with something like "That is actually a very good question..." (even/especially if it is, in reality, an asinine one) as this can take some of the sting out of your answer.

 

[BronwynMendoza]

Thankyou loads guys! I've taken on your advice and will be calm and collected in the future, non preachy and hopefully I'll get so used to the reaction to my veganism it won't even bother me any more. I'm happy with my life choices and I certainly don't need validation from others for them. My greyhounds thank you all too as they love their vegan food and don't look like they want to come off it - just their stupid mam/owner panicking lol x

 

[ledboots]

The nastiest comments and questions seem to come up during mealtimes. I always say, "Let's talk about it after we finish eating." If they insist, then I make sure I refer to the steak they are eating as "she" and make sure I say pig or cow instead of the fake words like pork or beef.

Some funny vegan made this up to show us that we all get the same stupid comments.

 

[BronwynMendoza]

The nastiest comments and questions seem to come up during mealtimes. I always say, "Let's talk about it after we finish eating." If they insist, then I make sure I refer to the steak they are eating as "she" and make sure I say pig or cow instead of the fake words like pork or beef.

Some funny vegan made this up to show us that we all get the same stupid comments.

Defensive omnivore bingo!!?? That is amazingly funny!! [emoji23] I wonder if anyone's ever gotten a full house in one day haha!

Brilliantly handled about the vegan discussion at dinner by the way ledboots, why is it always during a meal that these conversations seem to come about!

 

[PTree15]

The nastiest comments and questions seem to come up during mealtimes. I always say, "Let's talk about it after we finish eating." If they insist, then I make sure I refer to the steak they are eating as "she" and make sure I say pig or cow instead of the fake words like pork or beef.

Some funny vegan made this up to show us that we all get the same stupid comments.

I have a similar retort regarding persistent mealtime queries: "You really don't want me to describe in gory detail how that burger/steak/chicken got your plate, do you? Because it's pretty awful and not proper dinnertime talk." That is usually enough to get them to stop and wait until after we have finished.