Closet Vegan

[Hog]

Is anyone here a closet vegan?

I do not have enough courage to wear a PETA shirt. I recently told a close friend that it is economically impossible to raise an animal humanely for food consumption. Hamburgers at McDonald's would go up in price to $100 each. He said that I could get ethically raised meat from Whole Foods.

I do not have the courage to tell my friend this story.

I can imagine a pig going to slaughter. We will call the missing pig, "Jane". The other pigs think where is "Jane?" They cry for a few days. They do not eat enough food. They are very depressed. In the meantime, Mary got sick partly from depression. She misses Jane. Mary does not get any antibiotics because that would be "inhumane." Four weeks later, Mary goes missing. Actually, the farmer panicked because Mary has to get to the slaughter house alive. Otherwise, it is a huge financial hit.

Mary arrives at an ice cold slaughter house. She gets sprayed down by cold water for hygiene reasons. That has got to hurt. Remember that Mary is sick. She gets sent down a conveyor belt while restrained. Mary is understandably suspicious about the entire operation. She gets stunned by an electric shock. Then a machine is hooked up to her to vacuum out her blood. Was she unconscious while they were sucking out her blood? She was kicking like crazy when the blood was vacuumed out of her. Nah - it was nothing. Or was it.

But, maybe I am just an imperfect vegan a$$hole.

 

[Nekodaiden]

You do not need to join/agree with or wear a Peta shirt to be a vegan. You do not have to campaign for animal rights or attend protests. You do not have to have mono-motives "vegan for the animals" or "for the environment" or "for health" - you can have all 3, 2 or just 1.

You do not need to pretend vegan is some sort of "new ethics" or philosophy, or tell everyone you meet (although it's a good idea if they are planning to serve you food or take you out somewhere to eat some).

What you do need to do to be a vegan is stop the consumption of all animal products. That makes you a vegan. This is baseline. Although you CAN do more up to your willingness and conscience and are encouraged to do so, to be vegan, you must cease the eating of all animal products. This is how Donald Watson defined the term. No Peta membership, Tshirts or steak house crashing required.

 

[Lou]

Being a closet vegan is still being a vegan. No shame. KUDOS!!

​

However, I'm still in the camp that is it better to be promoting veganism.

There are many ways to advocate veganism. You don't have to talk with your friends or wear a PETA shirt. But IMHO, those are both good things to do.

I think it was Peter Singer who wrote that being an advocate for animal rights is more important than your personal diet. I think the argument went something like, even if your diet saves X number of animals a year, getting just one person to join you would be twice as effective. And what if the next year you and your friend get 2 more people to join you.

There have been some vegans who have been proposing that the definition of vegan should include advocacy.

As a first step, perhaps you could do a little introspection. Next time you have some quiet time perhaps you could figure out what you are afraid of. or think about what could happen if you told your friend your story. Or wear a PETA shirt.

Dr. Melanie Joy has a good youtube video on how vegans should deal with non-vegans. I could not find it right now but you might read one of her essays or watch one of her videos. The one I linked below is great only because it is so short.
Bottom line: Be Positive!

And this article might be a good place to start. It makes some really good points.

http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/media/links/p3419/argument.pdf

CEVA Videos | Center for Effective Vegan Advocacy

Our vegan advocacy video series provides powerful and practical tips for how to be a more effective advocate.

www.veganadvocacy.org

 

[FredVegrox]

I understand being a closet vegan. We want to fit in with others, and I started that way. With most groups I am in I have managed to come out saying openly I am vegan. I remain not being pushy about it, but the message for veganism remains important, so I will answer questions about it. Some take offense at the answers, but they did ask. I find that I try answering with emphasis on the healthy ways in vegan eating, or the environment, or climate change, or people who are starving, whatever those who want to listen to my answer might be responsive to.

 

[Hog]

Thank you very much for the responses.

I should also state that if a dumb *** like myself can go vegan than anyone can.

I should focus on the benefits of veganism.
01. Most vegans seem primarily concerned with my personal well being and health.
02. Cooking with meat is messy. Kitchen clean up is difficult. It attracts pests.
03. It is easier to eat healthy if you stay vegan.
04. Veganism reduces deforestation and pollution.
05. Determining the welfare of the animal that you just ate is nearly impossible.

I liked these quotes from - http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/media/links/p3419/argument.pdf

"The number one thing that we do wrong—and I am speaking from many years of doing this myself—is that we place personal purity ahead of being as effective as possible for animals. We lose sight of the fact that veganism is not an end in and of itself but rather a means of ending cruelty to animals."

"Ultimately veganism can’t just be about us, or it will become just one more narcissistic cultural fad. Veganism must be about helping animals."

 

[Lou]

I don't think the Dumb Truck statement should Ever be used.
It's too easily refuted.

I also think you have to lead with the animals. PETA puts it this way, "There is simply no easier way to help animals and prevent suffering than by choosing plant-based foods over meat, eggs, and dairy “products.”

or you could just say something like, It helps animals.

After that, I would go with something about the environment. It is the easiest, fastest, cheapest way to reduce greenhouse gasses right now.

Then something about health.

That's three. Enough to go on.

PETA has 10 good ones.

10 Reasons to Go Vegan in the New Year (2023) | PETA

www.peta.org

 

[Hog]

I like your statement, "Veganism helps animals." It is non-judgmental. I will use that statement.

Many people would respond with the following:
01. Eating animals is part of the ancient circle of life.
02. Animals have a better life on a farm than in the wild.
03. You are over exaggerating. The life of a farm animal is not that bad.
04. You should buy your bacon from Whole Foods.

On the nutrition side, I could say, "My Vegan Mentor from PETA is a 63 year old life long vegan. He is still in peak athletic condition."

============

Sadly the dairy industry brainwashed me into believing that 3 glasses of milk a day was a necessity. So I drank it religiously.



What kept me from considering veganism for years was my perception that veganism is unhealthy. Then my chiropractor said that if I changed my lifestyle habits that he would be out of a job. He said, "You do not need to go vegan over night. But, try to move in that direction." Later, PETA convinced me that eating vegan is a low cost healthy choice. So, I jumped in.

 

[TofuRobot]

I usually get a nods and blank stares when I say I don't want to die like the rest of my family and too many people around me have died, with heart disease and/or cancer.

Sometimes I feel like I'm living in a real life Truman Show. People know on some level but they just continue on like robots and truly don't care and anything except blindly following and doing what they're told to do by the media. I have even heard people say out loud "I don't care." One time I heard someone say very loud and clear (not about Veganism, it was about dolphins specifically), "I don't care about the dolphins. Why should I?" (and wildlife in general) as though the lives of other species in no way affected his life or human life in any way whatsoever and he wasn't ever going to be bothered. So really, it's just plain difficult to find people who actual gaf about *anything.* People would seriously rather have open heart surgery and gastric bypass surgery than to do something simple as change their diet to to save their own health. ... Finding people who care about *anything,* except their own personal instant gratification in terms of taste and their unwillingness to not be a sheep is pretty difficult.

Of course I think some people do care, but feel powerless as an individual. I think people just don't like change. This is why it's so important to start people young (hence the "happy meals" and other crap marketed to children).

 

[Lou]

I like to inform people about veganism. Most people know so little, and some people are actually a little curious. And although I like to argue, I do not like to argue with people who have their minds made up.

There is a great article that gives you some good counter-arguments to the most common arguments against veganism. Even if you don't like to argue its a good read.

I have never heard of the "Whole Foods" argument. Their PR department must be doing something right. I've never shopped the meat department there but I read something about how they promote the pastoral pasture ideal that we all have had in our heads since grade school.

Eating Animals: Addressing Our Most Common Justifications

 

[Hog]

"People would seriously rather have open heart surgery and gastric bypass surgery than to do something simple as change their diet to to save their own health." I love this website: https://www.heartattackgrill.com/ It was a great wake up call.

Eating Animals: Addressing Our Most Common Justifications

Those arguments are rock solid.

Man creates new breed of farm animal.
New farm animal trashes the environment.
Man goes extinct from pollution.
All animals are free.

 

[Lou]

Man creates new breed of farm animal.
New farm animal trashes the environment.
Man goes extinct from pollution.
All animals are free.

Sounds like a good outline for a movie script.

 

[Nekodaiden]

"The number one thing that we do wrong—and I am speaking from many years of doing this myself—is that we place personal purity ahead of being as effective as possible for animals. We lose sight of the fact that veganism is not an end in and of itself but rather a means of ending cruelty to animals."

"Ultimately veganism can’t just be about us, or it will become just one more narcissistic cultural fad. Veganism must be about helping animals."

Veganism is actually a diet, according to the founder of the word. I can agree wholeheartedly that we should be kinder to animals, and that being vegan certainly helps - but this will not convince the world to go vegan.

It is not narcissistic and selfish to buck the tide and do something for your health. That's sort of like saying the small group of non-smokers amongst a larger group of smokers are being selfish and narcissistic for not bowing to social pressure and looking after their lungs. Neither does it make them followers of a fad.

Whatever reason to be vegan and stay vegan is good enough if it works for you. Out of the 3 primary reasons: Animals, environment,health - it seems the animal rights people always have the loudest voice, trying to exclude all other motives but their passion in defining what it means to be vegan. In so doing, they really are doing their part in dividing us with their special elitism.

 

[Sax]

Donald Watson was a low-tier vegan, somewhere between the oil-consumers and almond eaters on our Vegan Elitist Purity Scale. It takes years of training at secret DxE temples to achieve the 33rd level of veganism, at which point you are objectively superior to all other vegans.

Plus you get a free PETA sticker.

 

[Hog]

I am not an animal lover in the traditional sense. I have no desire to spend time with pigs, horses, cows, rats, or cats. I also do not want to live with a dog in my home. Living with a dog takes as much work as taking care of a child. Still, I do enjoy the company of dogs as long as I do not have the responsibility of caring for them.

The animal rights vegans seem to be the ones who are most interested in helping me succeed in my efforts to maintain a healthy diet. In my opinionated opinion, they also seem to give the best advice and care most about me as a human being.

I am just as guilty for any animal rights abuse as any farmer. I turned a blind eye to the situation when I purchase ground meed for $1.77 a pound. I knew what was happening. But, I did nothing.

In the future, I will say to my friends, "I went vegan for the animals. But, don't let me tell you how to live your life."

 

[Nekodaiden]

Donald Watson was a low-tier vegan, somewhere between the oil-consumers and almond eaters on our Vegan Elitist Purity Scale. It takes years of training at secret DxE temples to achieve the 33rd level of veganism, at which point you are objectively superior to all other vegans.

Plus you get a free PETA sticker.

Cool.

Can I expect the following when reaching the 33rd level?

- A moral clarity that differentiates egg and cheese eating from meat eating (the former being superior, of course)
- Superior wisdom on the value of animal secretions with relation to alcohol consumption (recovering from)
- The spiritual revelation that if I advance in protests and join an animal rights group, teach and spread the message of veganism - that allowing a few eggs and dairy into my diet is morally justifiable considering my overall moral stance and life actions/ambitions?
- Claiming the label of being vegan for X years, even though I willfully ate animal products in said years?
- Teaching new vegans to accept food with eggs and dairy to advance the overall cause instead of standing up to them?
- Telling vegans that my superior understanding has analyzed their diet and proclaimed them to be orthorexic and doomed to future failure based on some testimon(ies) of a youtube personality or personalities?
- Able to discern between vegan "puritanism" and "real veganism"? (the former meaning an actual abstinence and the latter a "spiritual understanding")?


Just wondering.

 

[Hog]

I am the guy smoking the vegan cigarette. A can assure you that I drink vegan beer. The three essential food groups are beer, peanuts, and cigarettes. In addition, those guns are for shooting people and not animals.

I did not know there was a grade 33. I have a friend that did a grade 10. But, they kicked me out of grade 8 at the tender age of 20. Cuz they said I really should not ask the girls in my class out for dates.