Eating eggs from a rescued backyard hen?

[citlaranda]

Is it ethically acceptable to eat eggs from a rescued backyard hen?

Hi everyone,
I’m exploring vegan ethics and had a question I’d love your input on.

If someone has a rescued hen that lives in good conditions—free, safe, well-fed, not forced to lay more than naturally, and not given hormones or chemicals—would it be ethically acceptable to eat her unfertilized eggs, as long as she hasn’t been “mounted” by a rooster?

The idea is not to exploit her, but rather to avoid wasting something she naturally produces, as long as her well-being is fully respected.

I know this might not align with strict veganism, but I’m curious about your thoughts. Is it possible to hold vegan values while doing this, or would it still be considered non-vegan?

Thanks in advance for any insights!

 

[Lou]

We have done this topic already.

Thread 'Can eggs be vegan-friendly?'

Sep 23, 2023

This is interesting. Here is a post from my farmer friend Yolanda who posed this question in our FB Farmers and Vegans discussion group.

"Can eggs be vegan friendly?
I think they can in an ethical sense. After all. Veganism is an ethical stance.
I believe my eggs do fall into the category of vegan friendly. I give most of my eggs away and I have ordered a stamp to go on my egg cartons to outline their status.

Why vegan friendly?:
* Heritage chickens: bloodlines dating back to the 1950's. No male chicks ever killed at birth. No excess egg laying that can be hard on a hen's body.
*...

• Graeme M
• Replies: 91
• Forum: Philosophy

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[shyvas]

No, vegans don't use or eat anything that comes from an animal or something they produce.

 

[Deleted member 20024]

If you are vegan, you don't want to take anything away from animals. You simply do not desire to eat those eggs, no matter how ethically that rescued backyard hen is treated. You get that you can survive without eating eggs, so you don't prioritize using 'em up.

 

[Ahimsa24/7]

This question is covered by commandment #8.

 

[g0rph]

In answer to the question and IMO.

I don't think it's unethical. It just isn't vegan.

Gaz Oakley, one of my favourite YTers has rescued hens. He gives them away to non-vegan friends and family.

I guess it depends on how "vegan pure" you want to be.
For me, I wouldn't, but neither would I say you were doing anything wrong by doing so...

YMMV

 

[hitty]

First, there is no good reason to eat eggs. Secondly, the hens are bred to overproduce eggs, which causes health problems for them, and so leaving them with the eggs to pick apart and eat to regain some calcium and stuff is probably the best for the hen, and she won't think you are a freak for stealing her eggs.

 

[silva]

It doesn't hurt the rescued hens, but, it does perpetuate why we raise hens to begin.
As long as we see a need for animal products we will have abuse, and harm to both environment and our own health

Whether or not it's ethical, animal products can never be vegan.

 

[hitty]

It also says something about oneself; are you the eater of her eggs? We have stopped thinking about things in this way, and instead been thinking in terms of consequences. But there are implications with regards to one's character as well, we just forgot this during the "enlightenment", which had very little to do with enlightenment. You are your action. How would you judge someone who stole your faeces, used tampons or condoms and ate them? You probably value these things less than the hen values her infertile eggs, yet we are disgusted and angered by people who do such things to our trash. Meditate deeply on these matters, and see that all you do you do to yourself. No need to calculate utiles or try to read minds of birds. Read your own, that's all you need to figure this out.

 

[g0rph]

It also says something about oneself; are you the eater of her eggs? We have stopped thinking about things in this way, and instead been thinking in terms of consequences. But there are implications with regards to one's character as well, we just forgot this during the "enlightenment", which had very little to do with enlightenment. You are your action. How would you judge someone who stole your faeces, used tampons or condoms and ate them? You probably value these things less than the hen values her infertile eggs, yet we are disgusted and angered by people who do such things to our trash. Meditate deeply on these matters, and see that all you do you do to yourself. No need to calculate utiles or try to read minds of birds. Read your own, that's all you need to figure this out.

I'm sorry, but as an analogy, this is terrible.

If someone really wanted those things from me, I'd box them up and give them away.
But it isn't a useful or fair analogy anyway.

There is no point worrying about reading the bird's minds. They are not capable of understanding the concepts involved in property or ownership so there is little point in equating any anger you might feel personally about stealing your trash.

Taking away the eggs has zero effect on the birds. Sure, some of them could be fed back to them to replace nutrients lost in creating them, but the right feed has the same effect.

But if we perhaps take a more utilitarian view on this, it's probably more ethical to give them away to someone who will use them (instead of buying store-bought eggs, further adding to demand).
I gave them up three years ago now, so wouldn't use them, but my family do, so if I did rescue some hens those spare eggs would be given to them, instead of them keep buying from COOP or ICA.

 

[hitty]

I'm sorry, but as an analogy, this is terrible.

Not analogy, contrast.

If someone really wanted those things from me, I'd box them up and give them away.
But it isn't a useful or fair analogy anyway.

Not asking, just entering and taking.

There is no point worrying about reading the bird's minds. They are not capable of understanding the concepts involved in property or ownership so there is little point in equating any anger you might feel personally about stealing your trash.

Taking away the eggs has zero effect on the birds.

You seem to contradict yourself.

Sure, some of them could be fed back to them to replace nutrients lost in creating them, but the right feed has the same effect.

Let her decide for herself, let her have what little autonomy she may in this life.

But if we perhaps take a more utilitarian view on this, it's probably more ethical to give them away to someone who will use them (instead of buying store-bought eggs, further adding to demand).

Why a utilitarian view? Isn't that how the chickens got into this mess in the first place? One's utiles gained are greater than another's lost, ergo the end justifies the means?

 

[g0rph]

Not analogy, contrast.

It fits the definition of analogy exactly.

Not asking, just entering and taking.

And again, it's not relevant. The bird doesn't have the mental capacity to care. A human (and maybe other animals with higher reasoning, does

You seem to contradict yourself.

Where?

Let her decide for herself, let her have what little autonomy she may in this life.

This is called anthropomorphizing.

Why a utilitarian view? Isn't that how the chickens got into this mess in the first place? One's utiles gained are greater than another's lost, ergo the end justifies the means?

Nope.
They got into the mess because some humans decided to selectively breed chickens to provide more and more eggs because they wanted eggs. It's possible that way back when this was a necessary thing to do in times of hardship like crop failure etc. Nowadays we agree it isn't necessary.
What we disagree on is what to do if we rescue hens from slaughter.
I would hand the eggs over to friends and family who are not vegan. Thus reducing demand for store bought.
You wouldn't.
Neither is unethical. But my way has positive utility (IMO).

 

[hitty]

It fits the definition of analogy exactly.


And again, it's not relevant. The bird doesn't have the mental capacity to care. A human (and maybe other animals with higher reasoning, does



Where?

You claim it not necessary to read their minds, yet procede to claim to have intimate knowledge of their minds and faculties only a mind reader could have access to. Surely, you wouldn't be so arrogant as to presume?

This is called anthropomorphizing.

No, respect.

Nope.
They got into the mess because some humans decided to selectively breed chickens to provide more and more eggs because they wanted eggs. It's possible that way back when this was a necessary thing to do in times of hardship like crop failure etc. Nowadays we agree it isn't necessary.
What we disagree on is what to do if we rescue hens from slaughter.
I would hand the eggs over to friends and family who are not vegan. Thus reducing demand for store bought.
You wouldn't.
Neither is unethical. But my way has positive utility (IMO).

That is precisely what ethical egoism, a form of consequentialism, means; my ends justify my using you as a means to that end.

 

[g0rph]

You claim it not necessary to read their minds, yet procede to claim to have intimate knowledge of their minds and faculties only a mind reader could have access to. Surely, you wouldn't be so arrogant as to presume?

Oh lord.

No, respect.

Ok

That is precisely what ethical egoism, a form of consequentialism, means; my ends justify my using you as a means to that end.

If you say so. Bye bye.

 

[hitty]

Yes? No? Am I somehow mistaken?

 

[Deleted member 20024]

Yes? No? Am I somehow mistaken?

I don't think so. Your arguments were strong enough.

 

[silva]

I'm sorry, but as an analogy, this is terrible.

If someone really wanted those things from me, I'd box them up and give them away.
But it isn't a useful or fair analogy anyway.

There is no point worrying about reading the bird's minds. They are not capable of understanding the concepts involved in property or ownership so there is little point in equating any anger you might feel personally about stealing your trash.

Taking away the eggs has zero effect on the birds. Sure, some of them could be fed back to them to replace nutrients lost in creating them, but the right feed has the same effect.

But if we perhaps take a more utilitarian view on this, it's probably more ethical to give them away to someone who will use them (instead of buying store-bought eggs, further adding to demand).
I gave them up three years ago now, so wouldn't use them, but my family do, so if I did rescue some hens those spare eggs would be given to them, instead of them keep buying from COOP or ICA.

Our society has norms and laws for actions that don't actually cause any harm. I see veganism as an extension of those tenets.
If a person is incapacitated and has belongings they aren't even aware of, and would have no value to them, it is known to be wrong both morally, and legally, to take them, even if you felt they owed you money. Another analogy would be that people can die with perfectly functioning organs while others die in need of transplants. Without advanced consent, they rot with the body.
The very basic tenets of veganism is that animals are not ours to profit. In a perfect world using stray eggs may have zero impact, but just like the cases where we agree taking what is not ours is never acceptable, profiting from a hen that was bred and confined for egg laying, and now rescued, should be seen in the same light.
Just as I would look away if an underpaid caretaker would pocket some trinkets to pay their rent, I also would not be critical of someone using those eggs to starve off hunger

 

[hitty]

I spoke with a lady with stage 4 COPD today. Her future is basically "hope I live through the summer". If she catches a cold, that would likely be the end of her. One might think the big things in life start to matter more, and the little meaningless things matter less. And for the most part that's true. But one might be surprised to see her passionately argue for having her tea in her regular cup, and not the plastic ergonomic one with the straw. Having one sip of tea with great effort from her regular cup trumps slurping down a full plastic ergonomic cup's worth of tea at ease. It is the full experience that matters to her. We must make as few assumptions as possible as to what others value and don't value, be they chickens or bees or patients. Else we will cause unnecessary unintentional harm to them.

 

[g0rph]

Our society has norms and laws for actions that don't actually cause any harm. I see veganism as an extension of those tenets.
If a person is incapacitated and has belongings they aren't even aware of, and would have no value to them, it is known to be wrong both morally, and legally, to take them, even if you felt they owed you money. Another analogy would be that people can die with perfectly functioning organs while others die in need of transplants. Without advanced consent, they rot with the body.
The very basic tenets of veganism is that animals are not ours to profit. In a perfect world using stray eggs may have zero impact, but just like the cases where we agree taking what is not ours is never acceptable, profiting from a hen that was bred and confined for egg laying, and now rescued, should be seen in the same light.
Just as I would look away if an underpaid caretaker would pocket some trinkets to pay their rent, I also would not be critical of someone using those eggs to starve off hunger

I can't disagree with most of that. It isn't the terrible analogy used earlier. I stand by that rescued eggs are better used than not (even if I wouldn't personally use them) but I understand those who don't.

 

[Tillimint]

I agree with a lot of what @gOrph is saying. It's defiantly not vegan, but vegan and ethical are not necessarily synonyms, even if a vegan diet is ethically superior in many ways. It does not harm the chicken, or anyone else, and you are not doing anything to perpetuate the abuses of the poultry industry.

In my opinion, eating eggs from a from a rescued chicken is more ethical than many of the vegetables that we consume. These eggs are not obtained through the labour of underpaid migrant workers to collect and transport them, as is the case with many vegetables. They come without packaging that is damaging to the environment and without the environmental cost of transportation, not to mention a reduction in food waste if the chicken eats your scraps.

Enjoy the eggs, perfect morality is an impossible standard and I would argue that this is one of the least objectionable ways you could get food in a modern economy - second only to growing vegetables.