Brian W
Conscientious Christian
What do you think the alternative is? Do they have the resources and manpower to keep all such animals?
Are most people here PETA supporters or fans?
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Lou
Forum Legend
That is one of the reasons I like to post new stuff in old threads. People will see the thread - maybe for the first time - in the What's New section. And read it from the beginning if they haven't visited it before.
And then responding to someone who is not here anymore is sort of a common occurrence.
No, they don't (at this point in time). I still don't see that an animal benefits from being killed, just because someone feels they must "do something". I actually think that maybe homeless pets would be better off if they were treated like wild animals, left to fend for themselves:
...although I DON'T think this is an ideal situation.
I do understand that certain humans are/were ultimately responsible for domestic animals who have gone feral/homeless, and that this is not the case with wild animals. But are animal shelters responsible for this? For example, when I adopted my cats and rabbits from the local shelter, the contract I signed included a pledge to have them sterilized.
Lou
Forum Legend
That seems to be the strategy for cats. but I don't think it works for dogs. Dogs will tend to form packs and then get into all kinds of trouble.
In some states there is no "pledge". the shelters vaccinate and sterilize the animals and the person who adopts the animal pays the bill.
The overpopulation of unwanted pets not only results in millions of animals being euthanized each year, but puts pressure on limited public resources to care for and find homes for these animals. States have responded by adopting laws that make it mandatory for releasing agencies to have dogs and cats spayed or neutered. The majority of these laws are directed at new owners adopting pets from dog pounds, animal shelters, or their local humane societies. Several states even use the threat of criminal penalties to enforce such laws. While there are exceptions to these laws, it is clear that states have begun to take problems created by pet over-breeding seriously.
State Spay and Neuter Laws | Animal Legal & Historical Center
www.animallaw.info
Lou
Forum Legend
I don't know if the size of the city is a factor. I think the most important factor is the Latitude.
Although maybe its the local government that might be the most important factor.
Stray dogs can be a huge problem. They will form packs, attack people and pets as well as whatever the local animal population is, and spread rabies and disease
Feral cats also spread diseases and parasites among them. They are a threat to the local birds. They suffer tremendously from predators of all kinds, particularly human.
Dogs and cats are not meant to be feral anymore than human children
Puppy mills need to be outlawed. Adoptions should always be fixed. Breeders should pay for licensing and welfare audits
While I understand what you are saying, I’m not sure I can agree with it. Or at least I can’t agree with the degree of not caring. It’s definitely easier adopting the “ostrich with it’s head in the sand” attitude but at the very least, we can care enough so that we do our part, however small, in helping to ease any suffering. I wouldn’t want to to be that uncaring so as to just ignore it all.
@Nirvana not asking anyone to feel ‘guilty’.
I tend to be overly sensitive and can only handle “so much”. But for me personally, I’d rather feel empathy than not feel anything at all.
I tend to be overly sensitive and can only handle “so much”. But for me personally, I’d rather feel empathy than not feel anything at all.
Brian W
Conscientious Christian
But as well as being an individual, you are contributing one way or another, either to the problem, or to the solution. There was a time when I didn't believe that fox hunting would ever be banned in the UK, despite the protests. Then it happened - or at least hunting with dogs was banned. We should have courage to do what we can and keep persisting. The vegan community is growing and is virtually mainstream now. In the seventies and eighties when I became interested in animal rights and the environment and human rights etc., even ovo-lacto vegetarianism was deemed a cranky hippy thing to do. By being vegan you are adding to the number of people who don't support the slaughter and therefore to the chances of reducing and, hopefully, eventually eliminating that slaughter.
Brian W
Conscientious Christian
Gentle education and setting an example is the way to go IMO. It's slow but maybe more effective than being confrontational.
Well the world is overpopulated with pets, there probably aren't enough homes for all of them, caring for them instead of euthanizing them would probably draw the financial resources of PETA away from its most important mission (promoting veganism & opposing factory farming); and... considering most dogs and cats aren't vegan... PETA would arguably be causing more animal suffering if they attempted to find homes for puppies and kittens instead of euthanizing them.
These people who criticize PETA for this seem like they are often people who just hate vegans and are looking for reasons to criticize PETA because they hate how PETA criticizes their dietary habits.
^publicity stunt. It's working.
Utilizing people's mockery to steer the conversation toward animal ethics is their most visible tactic. Behind the scenes are dedicated people doing difficult, serious work for animals.
You know those "People Eating Tasty Animals" shirts and stickers? Everytime someone laughs at those they're being reminded of what PETA actually stands for. I wouldn't be surprised if PETA came up with that themselves.
Utilizing people's mockery to steer the conversation toward animal ethics is their most visible tactic. Behind the scenes are dedicated people doing difficult, serious work for animals.
You know those "People Eating Tasty Animals" shirts and stickers? Everytime someone laughs at those they're being reminded of what PETA actually stands for. I wouldn't be surprised if PETA came up with that themselves.
Lou
Forum Legend
Bold is mine.
I have done that. Have you? oh wait, you probably just read the anti vegan / anti peta articles.
Try reading some of PETAs articles or if you can find it, the one from Huffington or Slate. (I'd look those up for you but I written about them in this forum before.
PETAs views are very thoughtful.
Lou
Forum Legend
PETA Kills Animals
just saw some news on this today. So I thought maybe it would be a good time to revisit it.
Full Disclosure: I'm a card carrying member of PETA.
And it was a Reddit post that inspired this.
We were talking about misinformation in another thread - the one about complete proteins. Sometimes misinformation is like the protein myth, not malicious, just unfortunate and accidental. And there is some that is sort of accidental or produced by negligence. I call it Lazy Reporting. Like the Moons thing. But sometimes it's purposeful and malicious. PETA Kills Animals is an example of the latter.
FYI, PETA Kills Animals is the name of an organization.
just saw some news on this today. So I thought maybe it would be a good time to revisit it.
Full Disclosure: I'm a card carrying member of PETA.
And it was a Reddit post that inspired this.
We were talking about misinformation in another thread - the one about complete proteins. Sometimes misinformation is like the protein myth, not malicious, just unfortunate and accidental. And there is some that is sort of accidental or produced by negligence. I call it Lazy Reporting. Like the Moons thing. But sometimes it's purposeful and malicious. PETA Kills Animals is an example of the latter.
FYI, PETA Kills Animals is the name of an organization.
PETA Kills Animas is a front group operated by Berman & Co. Berman & Co. operates a network of dozens of front groups, attack-dog web sites, and alleged think tanks that work to counteract minimum wage campaigns, keep wages low for restaurant workers, and block legislation on food safety, secondhand cigarette smoke, drunk driving, and more.
Unlike selective-admission shelters (often misleadingly referred to as “no-kill” shelters), PETA operates what could be called a “shelter of last resort”—a safe place where no animal is turned away, ever.
- There’s a considerable distinction between euthanizing and slaughtering animals. It’s contradictory for individuals who consume meat to express outrage about animal euthanasia while endorsing the widespread slaughter of animals
Brian W
Conscientious Christian
Lou
Forum Legend
I would have come at him on his description of trans fats - which was misleading if not just plain wrong. but I like what Rachel did there too.
I support what PETA stands for and have been active with them in the past. I credit them for exposing the dairy industry and helping me make the final transition to a total vegan. I do think their ad campaigns have been a little horrific, but how do you reach people who don't want to think about where their meat comes from, because they might have to change or address it? The 'cycle of life' people..
I do wish they would broaden their advertising campaign, and more gently give people the needed information regarding nutrition, supplementation and animal treatment on farms, as well as softening their stance on total veganism. We are a long way from being a fully vegan species, and the more we can change toward that, however imperfect, the sooner we can shift. When you go as 'over the top' as they sometimes have, you can just turn people off and earn accusations of spreading misinformation.
Animals have amazing intelligence and complex relationships. But, you don't have to be intelligent to deserve a lack of cruelty. You don't have to be intelligent to suffer.
I do wish they would broaden their advertising campaign, and more gently give people the needed information regarding nutrition, supplementation and animal treatment on farms, as well as softening their stance on total veganism. We are a long way from being a fully vegan species, and the more we can change toward that, however imperfect, the sooner we can shift. When you go as 'over the top' as they sometimes have, you can just turn people off and earn accusations of spreading misinformation.
Animals have amazing intelligence and complex relationships. But, you don't have to be intelligent to deserve a lack of cruelty. You don't have to be intelligent to suffer.
Lou
Forum Legend
I do know what you mean. and I don't want to attack you. but I am a defender of PETA.... so...
Back in the day they were the best source for nutrition and recipes and stuff. I think now there being so many other sources they have taken a bit more of a back seat. But they still have an online bookstore.
What?! you mean stuff like this
Controversial ads create buzz. They get covered in print and on TV. They get people talking about them. I'm pretty sure there is a good analogy out there somewhere but I can't think of one. but it's like this. You buy a billboard and then the billboard is covered on the nightly news. It's like more bang for your bucks.
Shock and fear work. How many of you still remember that Driver's Ed video, Blood on the Pavement? You may turn off some people but you get everybody's attention.
Also you can't argue with success. Forty years ago PETA members consisted of the Cat ladies that lived at the end of the street. Now PETA has nine million members.
Ask some vegans about where they learned about eating vegan and many of them will say PETA. Maybe this isn't as true as it was 20 years ago. But 20 years ago I got my Free Vegan Starter Kit by sending a postcard to PETA. And now all you got to do is send them an email.
Back in the day they were the best source for nutrition and recipes and stuff. I think now there being so many other sources they have taken a bit more of a back seat. But they still have an online bookstore.
What?! you mean stuff like this
Are PETA members all vegan?
No, but since the best thing anyone can do to help animals is not to eat them, we encourage everyone to go vegan. Most people—not just animal rights activists—no longer have an appetite for animal flesh, milk, and eggs after learning about the suffering of animals in the agricultural industry.
The reason they go "over the top" is based on several thing. I'm not sure I even know them all but to my best understanding....
Controversial ads create buzz. They get covered in print and on TV. They get people talking about them. I'm pretty sure there is a good analogy out there somewhere but I can't think of one. but it's like this. You buy a billboard and then the billboard is covered on the nightly news. It's like more bang for your bucks.
Shock and fear work. How many of you still remember that Driver's Ed video, Blood on the Pavement? You may turn off some people but you get everybody's attention.
Also you can't argue with success. Forty years ago PETA members consisted of the Cat ladies that lived at the end of the street. Now PETA has nine million members.
