I am curious. I love animals and I farm them for meat using permaculture principles, ethically raised and humanely slaughtered. I am open to a frank discussion as to the choices made by vegetarians. I recognize they are as varied as the individuals.
Question Why do people choose to be vegetarian?
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Since childhood I felt it was wrong to kill animals, or use them for our food, but accepted the idea that we needed animal products for health, and it was just the whole "circle of life". When l got to research further, I gave up all meat, but the notion of "protein combining" was still a thing, making it harder to know if I was really the right diet. I was on and off again, more because of marriage, kids, social pressures.
I finally gave up animal products. The research abounds that we do not need animal products, of any kind. We need to supplement B12, as most meat eaters do (although not those eating the animals that graze like yours)
I avoid meat mainly for ethical reasons, but try and stay whole food plant based avoiding oils and sugar as that has been proven (to me personally!) as the most healthful diet.
I don't dispute that just being vegan is going to more healthful than eating as you appartently do-there is a wide span of what is healthy and what is not.
I simply find that especially today where most eat too many calories, too much protein, and not enough vitamins from whole foods, and lack exercise, being plant based is the best thing to do. I see the only realistic future containing the kinds of animal farming you do to be used in small portions for those who continue to eat meat as the horrific factory farming methods are destroying the planet and peoples health at alarming rates
Because each and ever animal deserves to live a happy,healthy and long life.
The very thought that an animal will end up on someone's plate in the form of a chop or sausage is simply unbearable.
The very thought that an animal will end up on someone's plate in the form of a chop or sausage is simply unbearable.
beancounter
The Fire That Burns Within
Animals have the same fundamental right to existence as you do. Since humans are not natural carnivores, there is simply no reason to eat the flesh of other animals.
Exactly, because there is no actual need for meat any more - we can live happily and healthily on plant foods. Additionally, meat farming is, let's face it, inherently cruel as it involves the killing of healthy animals who, we must assume, want to continue living, and surely don't want to become someone's meal. Also, there is the argument about resources: We are wasting energy and resources by eating animals instead of plant foods. Raising livestock takes a lot of water and land, and causes pollution. If we instead used the land to grow plant foods for humans, then we would need less land, water and cause less pollution.
@MeatFarmer - I must warn you that this thread is dangerously close to getting locked. The board rules prohibit promotion of meat eating and related practices. As long as the discussion is just about the reasons why people choose to be vegetarian, that is OK.
@MeatFarmer - I must warn you that this thread is dangerously close to getting locked. The board rules prohibit promotion of meat eating and related practices. As long as the discussion is just about the reasons why people choose to be vegetarian, that is OK.
Maybe I sounded a bit harsh here. To clarify, if this turns into a discussion for and against meat eating and/or production, that would be against our rules. But if we're just discussing reasons why people go vegetarian, that is of course absolutely fine.
Simple: I've always liked/loved animals as sentient beings who can show love (or something close to it) and enjoy life.
I don't necessarily equate killing an animal and killing a human, and I don't currently believe animals fear death (simply because they don't appear to have an intellectual conception of "death"). But it makes no sense to me to treat dogs, cats, horses, parrots, and other "pets" so differently from cows, pigs, or other animals who are seen as "food". I've interacted extensively with cats, dogs, rabbits, gerbils, and 1 hamster. I have also kept an assortment of fish; they haven't been nearly as interactive with me and certainly don't appear to feel affection/love/whatever, but they appear to be conscious and sentient. I cannot say the same for the many plants I've kept.
I also have no idea what you mean by the statements I've bolded:
I don't necessarily equate killing an animal and killing a human, and I don't currently believe animals fear death (simply because they don't appear to have an intellectual conception of "death"). But it makes no sense to me to treat dogs, cats, horses, parrots, and other "pets" so differently from cows, pigs, or other animals who are seen as "food". I've interacted extensively with cats, dogs, rabbits, gerbils, and 1 hamster. I have also kept an assortment of fish; they haven't been nearly as interactive with me and certainly don't appear to feel affection/love/whatever, but they appear to be conscious and sentient. I cannot say the same for the many plants I've kept.
I also have no idea what you mean by the statements I've bolded:
I've been vegetarian since 1972 (I was still eating fish 4 years prior to that), so I've come across statements like this many times over the years; most people I know seem to feel that way. Perhaps you 'love animals' somewhat the way I "love" plants. I enjoy them, like being surrounded by them, cultivate them, and acknowledge the vital part they play in the ecosystem; I support efforts to preserve and rescue plant species in danger of extinction. But I view them in a very fundamentally different way than animals: I do not care for them as individuals, because they do not appear to experience existence consciously as individuals, any more then the white blood cells in my body or the epithelial cells lining my mouth do. Maybe you could start a culture of those cells of mine- and they would be alive. But they wouldn't be any more aware of anything than my black walnut tree, the grass in my yard, or my houseplants.
Chryssie
Internet Junkie
When I first became vegetarian, it was probably more about health than ethics. I was raised on farms and that lifestyle was all I knew. We ate our own pigs, drank our own cow's milk, and later raised feeder cattle which means you are raising them to be slaughtered. So I always ate meat and never even thought about it. I came to the veg lifestyle rather late in life about 12 years ago. All the publicity about health issues related to red meat concerned me. We started eat less and less red meat and I became unable to even deal with looking at it. After going vegan and joining Veggie Boards, I learned much more about the ethics of animal product consumption and my sensitivity went very high. I agree with everything that has been said about animal's being sentient beings and see no difference between a cow and a dog. If it is ok to eat one, why is it so horrifying to eat the other? I think this is hypocrisy in its highest form. I also think the environment suffers from animal production as has been stated also. I think the term "humanely slaughtered" is an oxymoron.
There is no reason why anyone should be killed because I think they would taste good or their skin would be convenient to use.
Every animal species wants to live, wants to avoid pain and fear.
I also grew up on a farm. I have no illusions about the cruelty of nature. But, as a human animal, I have the brain power to recognize what my actions do to others, and to make choices accordingly.
Every animal species wants to live, wants to avoid pain and fear.
I also grew up on a farm. I have no illusions about the cruelty of nature. But, as a human animal, I have the brain power to recognize what my actions do to others, and to make choices accordingly.
I don't agree with you about this, Tom.
I don't think that nonhuman animals think about death in advance, the way humans do, the whole "woe is me, for someday I shall surely die" angst that we humans are so prone to.
But I do think they recognize and often fear imminent death. I think back on my youth when I was freaked out by spiders and would vacuum them up. They would run from the vacuum hose.
They recognize death in others, too. When my duck Dagwood's mate, Penelope, was killed, I buried her on a rise overlooking the pond. I did it after I had put the other ducks in for the night, so they didn't see me do it, and her grave was in a spot where the ducks had never gone before. Yet the next morning, Dagwood went to her grave and sat there all day until nightfall, not even leaving to eat or drink.
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Chryssie
Internet Junkie
I agree with Mischief on this point. There is evidence that elephants and other animals grieve so they do have an understanding of death. There are also stories of farm animals escaping on the way to slaughter. Since they fight so hard to survive at some level they "know" what death is.
There are many reasons why people choose to become vegetarian. Some do it for health reasons, others for environmental or ethical issues. People may also choose to become vegetarian as part of their religious or spiritual beliefs. Ultimately, each person must decide what is best for their own health and lifestyle.
David3
Forum Legend
Humane slaughter is bs, because you are cutting their life short so you can eat them. The only way to humanely kill is if you're euthanizing an animal that is suffering and there's no treatment.
It is not about killing them humanely. It is about not killing them.
I have always been an animal lover. I have always been a kind and nice person…
As a child, I would get upset and anxious about animal cruelty. I would cry. I would watch and love Disney movies about animals and ask if people ate such and such an animal (Guinea pigs, pheasants, etc). I would get upset if the answer was yes, they do eat them, etc.
I feel that it is wrong to kill an animal quickly and painlessly when we don’t need to (e.g when not necessary for self-defence or euthanasia, or subsistence hunting/slaughter out of necessity for survival), just as it is wrong to do the same to a human for an unnecessary reason. They are sentient beings, subject to experiences and subject to a life, and, when killed by us, they are robbed of that. They probably don’t want to die; they will run away and try to avoid being killed, and cry and scream in terror.
It’s not just factory farming that’s bad, it’s all farming that involves standard practice harm and killing of animals unnecessarily…
But please don’t take offence - it’s not about you personally. I still offer you kindness and a free virtual hug…
q_nekochan
Newcomer
I never felt good eating meat or thinking about animals that are suffering because we put them in captivity. Human body resembles plant-eaters and not carnivores, so with the right supplements and healthy food, there's no reason to hurt animals and the enviroment with the meat industry.
beforewisdom
Forum Legend
To answer the title question, vegetarianism is much older.
Modern animal agricultural methods, clothing production, and scientific research created the inspiration/need for veganism.
With the exception of college housemate all of the vegetarians I have met have been from an older generation.
My college housemate's reason for being vegetarian is that it offered more options and fewer hassles. At least in my metropolitan that is almost dated thinking as well.
My opinion about dairy from reading up on nutrition and animal cruelty issues is that "milk is liquid meat".
Modern animal agricultural methods, clothing production, and scientific research created the inspiration/need for veganism.
With the exception of college housemate all of the vegetarians I have met have been from an older generation.
My college housemate's reason for being vegetarian is that it offered more options and fewer hassles. At least in my metropolitan that is almost dated thinking as well.
My opinion about dairy from reading up on nutrition and animal cruelty issues is that "milk is liquid meat".
VeganRachel
Forum Legend
The thinking of "vegetarians" in the 60's and 70's was that they were making a humane choice. But they were not conscious that consuming
eggs and dairy meant the breeding, mutilation, separating mothers and babies, cruelty and slaughter of cows and chickens.They seemed to believe
that flesh consumption was cruel but forgot about the rest of it. Some vegetarians consume eggs, some dairy, some both. Some vegetarians are
strict, that they do not eat eggs or dairy. Some "vegetarians" consume fish as they do not see them as animals. I think its' a choice, compared to veganism, that allows them to feel more 'Flexible" when out with friends or familiy, making meals, etcetera. However they are trying to be kind and it may be a transition step to veganism, I feel it can be one step away from eating flesh. If someone is willing to inflict pain or cows and/or chickens, whats' next?.
