Vegans Have a Moral Duty to Have Children

[vegan89]

I think this is an important discussion to have because many vegans, for reasons of their environmentalism, seem to be against having children. The fact is, if you don't have children, other people will. And their children will most likely not be vegans. And that means more animal suffering, more environmental devastation, and probably negative financial consequences for society (in the form of higher health care costs).

Alternatively, you have children. Sure, that might create some problems for the world... but ultimately, it's one way to bring more vegans into the world. And that has a range of different benefits:
1) More vegan voters ---> increased political strength of vegan movement ---> legislation to promote & spread veganism, subsidize meat alternatives, tax meat, etc
2) More vegan food consumers ---> increased consumer spending on vegan foods ---> increased corporate interest in producing vegan products that make it easier for non-vegans to go vegan
3) More vegans living in society ---> increased public exposure to vegan ideas through normal social interactions ---> more people decide to go vegan as they learn about it
4) More vegans in society ----> media companies produce media content to appeal to a vegan audience, which spreads veganism more rapidly through society

One argument against having children is that the children may decide not to be vegans. However, I think this is unlikely. Studies show children tend to have similar political views and dietary habits as their parents do... and veganism is obviously political and a dietary habit.

And if you are a committed vegan, you will have many opportunities while raising your kids to make sure they understand why veganism is important. You can have them watch a range of different documentaries and TV shows that provide a perspective that supports veganism like Cowspiracy, Dominion, Forks Over Knives, Speciesism: The Movie, Lucent, PlantPure Nation, ...etc. You can have them read and study books like The China Study, and look at the scientific research on websites like nutritionfacts.org explaining why animal products are so unhealthy.

Having children is a tremendous opportunity to change the world, and no vegan committed to changing the system should fail to seize that opportunity. The more the merrier.

 

[Lou]

I disagree completely

NOT having children is one of the most environmental friendly decisions you can make.

 

[Lou]

“Having a child is 7-times worse for the climate in CO2 emissions annually than the next 10 most discussed mitigants that individuals can do,” analysts at Morgan Stanley said.

Climate change is making people think twice about having children

A growing number of people are reluctant to bring a child into a world that's set to be ravaged by climate change in the coming decades.

www.cnbc.com

 

[Sax]

Hear that, vegan women? Start pumping out babies or you're shirking your moral duties!

We shouldn't bring life into the world to achieve political goals. And you could do a lot of activism with the time and resources that would go into raising children.

 

[silva]

No one should choose to raise children for anything other than a desire to love and nurture another as part of a family.
Your desire to advance your own world view by breeding (or adopting) has such an obsessive, manipulative, tone.

 

[Lou]

Hear that, vegan women? Start pumping out babies or you're shirking your moral duties!

We shouldn't bring life into the world to achieve political goals. And you could do a lot of activism with the time and resources that would go into raising children.

but... more kids mean more potential voters.

 

[Sax]

but... more kids mean more potential voters.

Hmmmm...Think we could sell abortion rights as a form of voter suppression?

 

[Lou]

Hmmmm...Think we could sell abortion rights as a form of voter suppression?

Probably not being that the people who can't get abortions are the ones most marginalized.

 

[vegan89]

We shouldn't bring life into the world to achieve political goals. And you could do a lot of activism with the time and resources that would go into raising children.

The first part is just a statement of opinion, and you did not provide supporting reasoning for it. I might concede that if you're a person who does not want children or to be a part of children's lives, perhaps choosing not to have them is good since that type of person is unlikely to be a good parent in the first place.

But if you're a vegan and you like the idea of having children, having children is a morally good thing for the reasons mentioned in my original post.

As for activism... if you raise smart kids, they might be doing their own activism from a young age. And with several of them, that means several times as much activism is happening as compared with whatever a single individual such as myself could be doing in the absence of children... particularly given I'm a person who works full time (unlike the kids).

But regardless, I'm skeptical of the idea that an activist can just go out and provide information to members of the public willing to talk to them, and that this will change them into vegans at the drop of a hat. The typical food consumer seems to make their food decisions based more on on taste and price than on moral considerations regarding animal slaughter, environmental consequences, or health.

No one should choose to raise children for anything other than a desire to love and nurture another as part of a family.
Your desire to advance your own world view by breeding (or adopting) has such an obsessive, manipulative, tone.

Factory farming & slaughter is so horrible that I don't see a problem with being manipulative or obsessive in this way if it helps achieve my goal of promoting veganism.

 

[Sax]

The first part is just a statement of opinion, and you did not provide supporting reasoning for it.

It seems so self evident I didn't think it needed explaining. Children aren't a means to an end. I'd love to have more kids raised vegan but calling it a moral obligation is a step too far. If you dial it back to calling it a moral good I would agree with that.

Probably not being that the people who can't get abortions are the ones most marginalized.

Nevermind, attempted humor

 

[FlandersOD]

I disagree completely

NOT having children is one of the most environmental friendly decisions you can make.

I would also recommend addoption over having children!

 

[FlandersOD]

Also to clarify I support the right to abortions of all animals.
I mean hearing about gazels not being allowed access to abortion clinics in the wild is an utter travesty! [Should this be a seperate thread?]

 

[FlandersOD]

I think this is an important discussion to have because many vegans, for reasons of their environmentalism, seem to be against having children. The fact is, if you don't have children, other people will. And their children will most likely not be vegans. And that means more animal suffering, more environmental devastation, and probably negative financial consequences for society (in the form of higher health care costs).

Alternatively, you have children. Sure, that might create some problems for the world... but ultimately, it's one way to bring more vegans into the world. And that has a range of different benefits:
1) More vegan voters ---> increased political strength of vegan movement ---> legislation to promote & spread veganism, subsidize meat alternatives, tax meat, etc
2) More vegan food consumers ---> increased consumer spending on vegan foods ---> increased corporate interest in producing vegan products that make it easier for non-vegans to go vegan
3) More vegans living in society ---> increased public exposure to vegan ideas through normal social interactions ---> more people decide to go vegan as they learn about it
4) More vegans in society ----> media companies produce media content to appeal to a vegan audience, which spreads veganism more rapidly through society

One argument against having children is that the children may decide not to be vegans. However, I think this is unlikely. Studies show children tend to have similar political views and dietary habits as their parents do... and veganism is obviously political and a dietary habit.

And if you are a committed vegan, you will have many opportunities while raising your kids to make sure they understand why veganism is important. You can have them watch a range of different documentaries and TV shows that provide a perspective that supports veganism like Cowspiracy, Dominion, Forks Over Knives, Speciesism: The Movie, Lucent, PlantPure Nation, ...etc. You can have them read and study books like The China Study, and look at the scientific research on websites like nutritionfacts.org explaining why animal products are so unhealthy.

Having children is a tremendous opportunity to change the world, and no vegan committed to changing the system should fail to seize that opportunity. The more the merrier.

I see your point but if you add school and social circle to it really comes to form of extreme indoctrination, heck brainwashing into a particular ideology which doesn't make the world better it while also fueling demand for travel[which fuels demands for cheap airlines] aswell as other services and fact of the matter is you are providing a better argument for why it's wrong to have children if you have bad ideas than why an individual should have children. These are also good argument to go into early addoption but if one has a carnist family they'll try to most likely indoctrinate one and ones children towards carnism.

 

[Danielle]

Children are their own people, people are very stubborn. If someone doesn't want to be vegan, you can't convince them. You can try, but it's a waste of time. The only way people will go vegan is if they have those believes themselves, and even then they could end up not living up to them. Maybe they'll fail and be an ex vegan. They'll just complain "my controlling mother wants me to be vegan, but I don't" Children love rebelling.

 

[shyvas]

. Maybe they'll fail and be an ex vegan. They'll just complain "my controlling mother wants me to be vegan, but I don't" Children love rebelling.

I once met a girl on Vancouver Island who was bought up as a vegan. Her mum was a single parent and raised her alone. When she became an adult she became an omni and I sensed it was because as a youngster, her mum didn't give her a choice.

 

[FlandersOD]

To be honest it's actually extremely selfish to make children in this environment.

 

[beancounter]

Well, there is no guarantee that your children will choose to be vegan when they become adults.

 

[David3]

Let's stay on the topic of child-bearing and its impact on veganism.

The abortion debate is well described and (re)rehashed elsewhere.

 

[Tom L.]

One argument against having children is that the children may decide not to be vegans. However, I think this is unlikely. Studies show children tend to have similar political views and dietary habits as their parents do... and veganism is obviously political and a dietary habit.

And if you are a committed vegan, you will have many opportunities while raising your kids to make sure they understand why veganism is important. You can have them watch a range of different documentaries and TV shows that provide a perspective that supports veganism like Cowspiracy, Dominion, Forks Over Knives, Speciesism: The Movie, Lucent, PlantPure Nation, ...etc. You can have them read and study books like The China Study, and look at the scientific research on websites like nutritionfacts.org explaining why animal products are so unhealth

Perhaps. My family was quite normal in that they were fond of pet species, and not what would generally be considered cruel to animals, but ate meat. I can't explain exactly why, but the notions that
1) some animals were "food" while others were "pets", and
2) someone could "humanely slaughter" a "food animal" and still have even a minimal level of concern for them, just never made sense to me.

I think this is an important discussion to have because many vegans, for reasons of their environmentalism, seem to be against having children. The fact is, if you don't have children, other people will. And their children will most likely not be vegans. And that means more animal suffering, more environmental devastation, and probably negative financial consequences for society (in the form of higher health care costs).

Alternatively, you have children. Sure, that might create some problems for the world... but ultimately, it's one way to bring more vegans into the world. And that has a range of different benefits:
1) More vegan voters ---> increased political strength of vegan movement ---> legislation to promote & spread veganism, subsidize meat alternatives, tax meat, etc
2) More vegan food consumers ---> increased consumer spending on vegan foods ---> increased corporate interest in producing vegan products that make it easier for non-vegans to go vegan
3) More vegans living in society ---> increased public exposure to vegan ideas through normal social interactions ---> more people decide to go vegan as they learn about it
4) More vegans in society ----> media companies produce media content to appeal to a vegan audience, which spreads veganism more rapidly through society

One argument against having children is that the children may decide not to be vegans. However, I think this is unlikely. Studies show children tend to have similar political views and dietary habits as their parents do... and veganism is obviously political and a dietary habit.

And if you are a committed vegan, you will have many opportunities while raising your kids to make sure they understand why veganism is important. You can have them watch a range of different documentaries and TV shows that provide a perspective that supports veganism like Cowspiracy, Dominion, Forks Over Knives, Speciesism: The Movie, Lucent, PlantPure Nation, ...etc. You can have them read and study books like The China Study, and look at the scientific research on websites like nutritionfacts.org explaining why animal products are so unhealthy.

Having children is a tremendous opportunity to change the world, and no vegan committed to changing the system should fail to seize that opportunity. The more the merrier.

For the most part, I think this is true; we inherit a lot of personality traits from our parents. But it doesn't always work out this way. I explained above why I deviated from the omni diet my relatives and friends followed. Similarly, a child raised vegan might have an innate desire to conform, feeling uneasy about not "fitting in" (a common human tendency). Or, they might not feel any fellowship with or good will for animals. Or they might innately crave meat, etc more than their parents did.

Maybe I believe this because I don't know many vegans, and most of them were not raised vegan.

 

[Graeme M]

I have no strong views about whether to have children or not other than to note that there are too many people. But I don't think the OP's argument is compelling. If other people continue to have children while vegans do too, are relative proportions of vegans and non-vegans likely to change? Given vegans will likely have fewer children on average, I'd think not. Plus, you cannot be confident that your children will be vegan - it is, after all, a personal choice.