Vegans and abortion

[peacefulveglady]

Does this look like only a fetus? Tell it to a eiman that lost her pregenancy and to hear from people like this its not a baby..

Mother shares incredible photo of baby miscarried at 11 weeks

"He had no physical abnormalities.... A perfect little nose and ear and face. 10 fingers and 10 toes," Jaelyn said, after the miscarriage of her son.

www.liveaction.org

 

[Lou]

BSV has a good video looking at both pro choice and pro life arguments thru a vegan lens.
Well researched, good production, too.

What happened to bite-sized vegan?

Anyone know? :eyes: Sorry if this question has already been addressed... I'm late to the party. :party:

www.veganforum.org

 

[kelmoy1976]

People have confided in me that their lives were ruined by abortion, it was the biggest regret they ever had. I think it is unreasonable for the planet's population to grow double in the next 40 years to 16 billion like it did since the population was at 4 billion the 1980s. I think for numerous reasons life was more satisfying in the 1980s than it is now. Some people are sexually active when they are too young because they want to prove they are 'good at it.' I think the peer pressure needs to be taken out of collective culture and people should work on themselves more and be more ready. We don't hear about this side from people. I didn't know them at the time. People get into comparing the number of children in families which I don't agree with. I think it is worth writing about as a way to get involved in a lasting way. Some people can be really cruel they would throw a baby shower for one person and for another person tell them they aren't prepared to raise a family. I am glad this topic was brought up. Probably in the future with age reversal people can have more time to plan families.

 

[Blues]

I don’t think I would have wanted to be aborted.

 

[Andy_T]

I would respectfully ask everybody who is interested in having a genuine, educated discussion of this challenging topic to read the following article:


The publication holding the original article is no longer available, but you can still find the last archived version here:

Excerpt from "Mind If I Order the Cheeseburger? And Other Questions People Ask Vegans" by Sherry F. Colb

It’s an excerpt from the very good book “Mind if I order the cheeseburger, and other questions that people ask vegans” by the late, great Sherry F. Colb.

 

[FredVegrox]

I indeed value my life, why should other lives not be valued? I would not want harmful treatment to others of other species, and I would not have unborn who are developed as many animals we see are by the time the unborn is known about be an exception. Oh, maybe someone will say something about their choice...

 

[KLS52]

Oh, maybe someone will say something about their choice...

That would be me.
As a practicing Catholic it would be "wrong" for me. It does not give me the right to decide for anyone else.

 

[allindogecoin]

Here in Australia there doesn't seem to be as much debate over abortion so I haven't had too much time to think of it. But I don't think most people are getting abortions just out of convenience. Usually it is because of something terrible such as rape or because they simply do not have enough money to look after a baby. This contrasts with animal agriculture where most people do seem to eat animals out of convenience or habit.

Something I should point out is the overpopulation issue. There was a recent study that found that this planet can comfortably support about 2.5 billion people living a typical Global North lifestyle. Fossil fuels are what has led to there being about 8 billion people on this planet now, but fossil fuels are depleting and EROI is declining, and this is showing up as inflation and cost of living pressure. So the answer is that we as a species need to engage in voluntary degrowth otherwise nature will impose involuntary degrowth on us, and it already has and that is why it is getting more and more difficult to have a baby. That being said, if more people ate less meat, lived in dense apartments rather than suburban houses, walked or cycled or took a train rather than drove a car, and engaged in digital entertainment rather than flying around the world of entertainment, the planet would be able to support many more people.

 

[pinkpetalbird666]

Abortion is just healthcare. I'm vegan and I like having access to healthcare.

 

[IamJen]

I indeed value my life, why should other lives not be valued? I would not want harmful treatment to others of other species, and I would not have unborn who are developed as many animals we see are by the time the unborn is known about be an exception. Oh, maybe someone will say something about their choice...

"unborn who are developed as many animals"

What animals would those be?

 

[Clairey 69]

Do you all understand if people stopped having children then there will be no one left? Abortion is killing an innocent baby out of a sacred place called the womb. How can you protest a life of a cow or animal from slaughter but not an innnocent little baby? When people die off they are replaced by brand new life called a newborn baby. I am shocked that all vegans support this evil procidure to slaughter innocent lives inside a mothers womb because its an inconvience or another mouth to feed or saying its hurting the environment. Do not say this is all about health care for woman. If you need an abortion it should be out of pocket and only if there is emergnacies.

I think maybe in some cases it might be kinder to abort the foetus before it develops into a baby for different reasons but I can see your point.

 

[Vegana Misantropia]

Do you all understand if people stopped having children then there will be no one left? Abortion is killing an innocent baby out of a sacred place called the womb. How can you protest a life of a cow or animal from slaughter but not an innnocent little baby? When people die off they are replaced by brand new life called a newborn baby. I am shocked that all vegans support this evil procidure to slaughter innocent lives inside a mothers womb because its an inconvience or another mouth to feed or saying its hurting the environment. Do not say this is all about health care for woman. If you need an abortion it should be out of pocket and only if there is emergnacies.

I completely understand your point of view, even though I have a different opinion.
I don't speak for all vegans, and I don't know anyone who thinks the way I do, but I have a rather misanthropic and even existentialist perspective.
I believe your argument is somewhat valid when it comes to vegan parents. If those of us who want to protect animals choose not to have children, we become an even smaller minority, since many people stop being "vegan" whenever it's convenient for them, while, on the other hand, carnists continue to reproduce.
So personally, I support abortion rights, but I also think that if we want to increase our numbers, it's not enough to convert people to veganism—we should also have children ourselves, even though there's no guarantee that our children will become vegans.
Besides, I don't believe any baby is truly innocent if every human being has the potential to become destructive.

 

[allindogecoin]

I completely understand your point of view, even though I have a different opinion.
I don't speak for all vegans, and I don't know anyone who thinks the way I do, but I have a rather misanthropic and even existentialist perspective.
I believe your argument is somewhat valid when it comes to vegan parents. If those of us who want to protect animals choose not to have children, we become an even smaller minority, since many people stop being "vegan" whenever it's convenient for them, while, on the other hand, carnists continue to reproduce.
So personally, I support abortion rights, but I also think that if we want to increase our numbers, it's not enough to convert people to veganism—we should also have children ourselves, even though there's no guarantee that our children will become vegans.
Besides, I don't believe any baby is truly innocent if every human being has the potential to become destructive.

I don't know the exact statistics but I believe very few children raised vegan grow up to continue to be vegan. What seems to happen is that nowadays is that when we are raised we tend to be influenced by not just our parents but also e.g. social media, friends, etc. Maybe nowadays AI is doing a lot of influencing and raising of children and young adults.

 

[Andy_T]

Something I should point out is the overpopulation issue. There was a recent study that found that this planet can comfortably support about 2.5 billion people living a typical Global North lifestyle. Fossil fuels are what has led to there being about 8 billion people on this planet now, but fossil fuels are depleting and EROI is declining, and this is showing up as inflation and cost of living pressure. So the answer is that we as a species need to engage in voluntary degrowth otherwise nature will impose involuntary degrowth on us, and it already has and that is why it is getting more and more difficult to have a baby. That being said, if more people ate less meat, lived in dense apartments rather than suburban houses, walked or cycled or took a train rather than drove a car, and engaged in digital entertainment rather than flying around the world of entertainment, the planet would be able to support many more people.

In my opinion, that is another difficult discussion.

Yes, the planet can "comfortably support about 2.5 billion people living a typical Global North lifestyle" - and as you point out, this means that there are actually 2 options.

One would be to reduce the population to that number, the other would be to reduce that lifestyle to something more sustainable.

Unfortunately, most people in power in Western countries consider the second option to be preposterous and mainly focus on the first one...

Also, one might mention - sorry, just saw your username - the greedy and evil concept that is the basis of all kinds of bitcoin and similar.

 

[Andy_T]

I don't know the exact statistics but I believe very few children raised vegan grow up to continue to be vegan.

I, too, would love to see actual statistics about that one.
There are very few people who are actually raised vegan due to the ethical values of their parents or society.

I understand if those who are raised more or less vegan because of lack of money would want to change that, and I also understand that typically, everybody who ever tried out a vegan or vegetarian lifestyle for 3 weeks is considered an "ex vegan", but I would not guess that the majority of people who were raised vegan due to the values of their parents decide to change that.