Vegan vs. Vegetarian: More Differences Than Similarities? ft Gary Yourofsky

[flyingsnail]

Just because one being potentially suffers less than another, or just because the utilitiy derived from a being's suffering is more per hour than another makes no difference. Quantifing the degree of suffering isn't the point. Suffering is suffering.

Quantifying the degree of suffering is the point when someone is arguing that a vegetarian promotes suffering more than someone that eats meat but no dairy and eggs as was claimed in the video. My comments in this thread were made in relation to the claim in the video.....but apparently if you make any comment about dairy or eggs that isn't a vegan cliche you're some how giving an argument for dairy and egg consumption.

If one is going to talk about what actions cause more suffering than others....then obviously we need a way of measuring suffering.

You cannot measure suffering against productivity without moving it from philosophy to economics

One uses information from outside disciplines in philosophy all the time, but in this case how do you come to an understanding of what actions result in the most suffering without considering the economics of the respective production?

Not only that, but it sounds very much like an Omni justification argument.

How so? So its an "omni justification" when you suggest that dairy and eggs involves less suffering than meat but a whole different matter when you claim that meat involves less suffering? It would seem to be the opposite, after all, the latter is encouraging meat consumption over dairy.

 

[Clueless Git]

Every omnivore I've ever met also promotes dairy and eggs. If you honestly think a vegetarian who promotes dairy and meat is promoting more cruelty than an omnivore who promotes dairy and eggs, this conversation is over.

Did you mean that omnis promote the cruelties of both meat and dairy (milk and eggs) whilst vegetarians only promote the cruelty of dairy, RF?

If so that is correct.

It's almost definitely correct that dairy claims less individual animals lives too.

The point is that the suffering of each individual animal exploited for dairy is greater and longer than the suffering of each individual animal that is exploited for meat.

Subpoint being that each animal exploited for dairy only ends up suffering the same fate as each animal exploited for meat, slaughter, anyway.

 

[Clueless Git]

And a conversation that probably never happened ...

Goebels: We have the time for getting Jews into the gas chambers down to an all time low Mein Fuhrer.

Hitler: You evil b'stard Goebels! Can't we work them till they're totaly knackered and then gas them anyway?

Goebels: Feck this, I'm voting UKIP next time round.

 

[rainforests1]

Did you mean that omnis promote the cruelties of both meat and dairy (milk and eggs) whilst vegetarians only promote the cruelty of dairy, RF?

If so that is correct.

It's almost definitely correct that dairy claims less individual animals lives too.

The point is that the suffering of each individual animal exploited for dairy is greater and longer than the suffering of each individual animal that is exploited for meat.

Subpoint being that each animal exploited for dairy only ends up suffering the same fate as each animal exploited for meat, slaughter, anyway.

If we're saying omnivores cause more suffering than vegetarians, then we should focus all of our energy on getting omnivores to change. I've never seen any reason to believe arguing between vegans and vegetarians has accomplished anything.

 

[Clueless Git]

I've never seen any reason to believe arguing between vegans and vegetarians has accomplished anything.

You ever seen any reason to believe arguing between vegetarians and omnis has accomplished anything, RF?