The things I used to eat...

Tmcarlson3

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Hello, I'm Thomas. New here, and new to veganism. I stopped eating all things animal in January 2019 primarily for health reasons. A big step, although I had gradually moved in a plant-based direction over 2018.

Then came August 2019. Travel to my hometown in the Midwest, family, old friends, old habits... I think "relapse" is the best way to describe those couple weeks. Steaks, fried chicken, pig roasts, you get the idea. Oh, and beer. The plant-based diet nearly eliminated my taste, and tolerance, for alcohol. But a belly full of pulled pork makes a critter thirsty.

After Labor Day, I was back home, trying to remember how to have breakfast without bacon, when I was flattened with raging case of gout. A self-inflicted wound, I'd say.

A couple rounds of harsh medications and a very strict diet put me back on my feet. By "very strict", I mean I minimized all dietary purines - those compounds that lead to uric acid which can lead to gout. So I avoided not just meats, but also plant-based purines (legumes, spinach...).

Once feeling well, I brought a full spectrum of plants back to my table. And, WHAM! Gout again. More meds, back to quinoa & cabbage for a while.

So, my current theory is: 7-8 months of plant-based life put me in sort of a factory-reset. Running my diet off the rails in August produced a predictable result. And now... do to my whipsaw behavior, I have some hypersensitivity to dietary purines? Maybe I can gradually reintroduce more plants? Anyone with similar experience?

This got way longer than I planned, so I'll spare you more medical info, except that besides the gout, I appear otherwise healthy, near ideal weight, liver & kidneys are working fine. I appreciate any feedback.
 

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First off, let me be the first to welcome you to the Vegan Forum. Glad you are here and happy to see a new vegan.

I'm no doctor but nutrition is a bit of a hobby for me. my familiarity with gout is pretty peripheral.

It has been my impression that to avoid gout all you had to do was stop drinking alcohol and become a vegetarian. I have two friends who have bouts of gout and when speaking to one of them I mentioned this and he gave me a long list of plant foods that cause gout (asparagus, peas, beans, lentils, and cruciferous veggies, etc). This didn't seem right to me and I googled it. And just from my cursory research, I found that I was right. Although some plants contain purines they also contain phytochemicals and polyphenols (whatever they are). The important thing is that these substances actually reduce uric acid and comorbidities (whatever that is).

I don't usually recommend seeing a dietician but I think this might be warranted in your case. And you know if your doctor writes a referral, your Health Insurance will probably pay for it. (Come to think of it, I'm surprised this wasn't done in the first place).

BTW, don't see a "nutritionist" but see a "Registered Dietician". Not that there aren't any good nutritionists but RDs are formally trained, tested, and monitored. Anyone can call themselves a Nutritionist. Also, physicians have little training in nutrition, dieticians are the experts.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Please check out this article. there is a video that goes with it.



Further reading
- https://www.everydayhealth.com/arthritis/gout/your-anti-gout-food-plan/
- https://healthyeating.sfgate.com/gout-vegetarians-9294.html
-https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0261561419301293
-https://veganhealth.org/gout-and-plant-based-diets/
- https://www.blackmores.com.au/arthr...uscle/can-vegetarianism-protect-you-from-gout
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6722549/
 
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Tmcarlson3

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Thanks Lou. I know recent studies suggest plant-based purines shouldn't cause gout, but you've provided more info. I might look into the RD route.
 

Emma JC

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welcome Thomas and congrats on your journey into veganism

We have all fallen off the wagon on our way to here and it seems you just fell particularily hard.

I would also suggest that you consider a quick reset with maybe a two week potato diet or something similarly simple.

If you google Mary McDougall's Potato diet you will find out more info. Krocks in the Kitchen (YouTubers) have lost a ton of weight (over the past year+) and they started with the two week potato diet and then did it again on their one year anniversary just to keep the year in perspective.

Good luck and try to find a plant-based Registered Dietician, it makes it easier.

Emma JC
 

Emma JC

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I may be naive but I can't imagine in 2019 a Pro Meat RD. Especially for a victim of gout.

There are tons and tons of ProMeat doctors so a ProMeat RD isn't much of a stretch IMO.

Emma JC
 

Lou

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There are tons and tons of ProMeat doctors so a ProMeat RD isn't much of a stretch IMO.

Emma JC

Maybe. but we all know that doctors aren't trained in nutrition. RDs are.
But I do realize that my "world view" is pretty skewed.
But sure , it wouldn't hurt to ask the Dietician.
 
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Tmcarlson3

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Thanks for the advice. Probably a good point, Emma. I know more "Keto" folk than plant-based, and a few are professionally guided. By a RD? Well I don't know that...
 

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welcome Thomas and congrats on your journey into veganism

We have all fallen off the wagon on our way to here and it seems you just fell particularily hard.

I would also suggest that you consider a quick reset with maybe a two week potato diet or something similarly simple.

If you google Mary McDougall's Potato diet you will find out more info. Krocks in the Kitchen (YouTubers) have lost a ton of weight (over the past year+) and they started with the two week potato diet and then did it again on their one year anniversary just to keep the year in perspective.

Good luck and try to find a plant-based Registered Dietician, it makes it easier.

Emma JC

I'm just curious about a two week potato diet. What kind of benefits would one obtain from it ?;)
 

Emma JC

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It can be very confusing and disorienting to try to switch, cold not-turkey, and so it makes it easier to just concentrate on eating one thing for a time period.

My bad, it is actually called Mary's Mini and you don't have to choose potato, you can choose any starch you prefer. Most choose potatoes as there are so many options including sweet potatoes. You then add any green and yellow non-starch vegetables and eat as much as you like until you are full. It is a healthy way to lose some weight fairly quickly and it is really a precursor to a whole food plant-based lifestyle.

This article explains it better than I can.

https://www.brandnewvegan.com/articles/what-is-a-marys-mini

A quote from the above article: "Well, let’s look at it for a minute. Whole, starchy foods, like potatoes, sweet potatoes, etc actually have all the macro and micronutrients you need. So you could theoretically live on just those alone and be perfectly fine for 10 days."

If you google "Mary's Mini" you will find lots of references to it and if you google "spud fit andrew taylor" you will find someone who did potatoes for a year.

Emma JC
 
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Charles Gibson

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Welcome, all. I am also a beginner here, just starting to use the forum. I was a supporter of Keto and adhered to such diets for about 3 years, so I have some experience. About Keto diets, . I used it at the beginning of my journey, for a healthy being. And now I want to switch to a fully vegan diet, that's why I registered :)
 
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Tmcarlson3

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Hey, welcome Charles!

I haven't been around much, but I sure appreciate the genuine feedback here. I'll give you an update on what I (think I've) learned about myself, gout, and diet, over a few painful months. Perhaps let me know if I make sense.

Recap: after a decent start - 6+ months - of self-guided veganism, I really went off the rails with a couple weeks of meat & alcohol. I earned brutal case of gout. I went back to a very limited vegan diet and took several rounds of meds (prednisone & colchicine, + lots of NSAIDS). The gout would subside, then come roaring back once I finished the meds. It seemed everything I ate beyond cabbage & quinoa absolutely nuked my feet.

I finally got a referral to a registered dietician. However, by the time my appointment rolled around, I was healed, and I have other places to spend the money.

As I said, I had severely restricted my diet. I was losing weight, and I wasn't overweight to begin with. My Dr said, "yes, you're losing weight, but hey that's good! Heavier you are, the worse the gout". Stay with the low-purine diet, and we'll get you on maintenance meds". Great...

Then, a light bulb exploded over my head! Ok, I've taken my dietary purines about as low as one can. I'm not consuming anything remotely associated with gout. No meats of course, but I found that when gout is actively flared up, many plants also contribute. I was losing weight. But, as I lost weight, burning my reserves, was I not metabolozing animal tissue? I think the majority - 2/3?- of purines (those compounds that lead to uric acid, which can lead to gout) in our bodies come from the natural breakdown of old cells. At this point, I had seen two different Drs and read dozens of articles on gout. But I had never googled the terms "weight loss" and "gout" together. BAM! Gout is definitely associated with crash diets. And I was certainly on an unintentional crash diet. Wow.

So, I made it my mission to just crank up my caloric intake with any foods that didn't seem to immediately worsen my condition. Dairy is one of those. Lots of full-fat yogurt & cheese along with the plant-based diet. After 3 months of pain, often unable to walk, I healed in about 24-36 hours. No drugs. Zero symptoms after 4 days. Wow.

Now I'm back to a nearly plant-based diet with a wide variety. I even had a (one. As in 1) pint of beer this week. No I'll effects. I'm so happy. I haven't gone back to the Dr. I don't see a need. People have asked if I'll go on a "maintenance med". I don't see the point.

Does this make sense? Long story, but perhaps it can be helpful to others. Thanks for reading!
 

SapphireLightning

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There are tons and tons of ProMeat doctors so a ProMeat RD isn't much of a stretch IMO.

Emma JC

I started working at a hospital this past May, and since I had never eaten nor worked at such a place before, I figured that there would be tonnes of plant based options served to their patients and in the cafeteria (The options nearly completely overlap). Wow boy oh boy was I wrong.. The typical breakfast I see there is Bacon, eggs, sausage links, white toast with butter and tater tots cooked in oil. The lunch and dinner options don't fair much better. There is always a "vegan option" which is only oatmeal for breakfast (none of the cereals are anything but sugar and honey...) and the salad bar for lunch and dinner. And of course the salad bar is often cross contaminated because people aren't careful with tongs, so chunks of hard boiled egg in the spinach, or a piece of cooked chickens in the hummus, or cottage cheese everywhere...

Sorry for the rant... At least they do occasionally serve up something that is specifically vegan, which is nice, but wow was not expecting bacon in a hospital...


Oh, and Hi Charles! Welcome!
 
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Tmcarlson3

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I started working at a hospital this past May, and since I had never eaten nor worked at such a place before, I figured that there would be tonnes of plant based options served to their patients and in the cafeteria (The options nearly completely overlap). Wow boy oh boy was I wrong.. The typical breakfast I see there is Bacon, eggs, sausage links, white toast with butter and tater tots cooked in oil. The lunch and dinner options don't fair much better. There is always a "vegan option" which is only oatmeal for breakfast (none of the cereals are anything but sugar and honey...) and the salad bar for lunch and dinner. And of course the salad bar is often cross contaminated because people aren't careful with tongs, so chunks of hard boiled egg in the spinach, or a piece of cooked chickens in the hummus, or cottage cheese everywhere...

Sorry for the rant... At least they do occasionally serve up something that is specifically vegan, which is nice, but wow was not expecting bacon in a hospital...


Oh, and Hi Charles! Welcome!


I've spent little time in hospital. Thankfully near-zero as a patient. But I volunteer with a local Food Rescue organization, and I've had occasion to pick up food - extra prepared meals - from a large hospital here in Colorado Springs & delivered to local mission that serves homeless citizens. While I'd prefer the hospital food over no food, I've been struck by the general unhealthiness of the fare. Your experience seems right in line with what I've seen

~TC
 

silva

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I'm just curious about a two week potato diet. What kind of benefits would one obtain from it ?;)
It's mostly to reset your taste buds to get you off the cravings for oils, sugar and salt from processed foods.
I did it (kinda) for a week back a few months and can see the benefit. You could eat the one starchy food you pick plain, and a couple of non starchy veggies, but the starch was what you could have 3 times a day- and whenever you got hungry.
My problem is I can loose my cravings, think wfpb foods are fine--but then wake up as if it never happened, craving junk with a vengence. I've done great for maybe two months, then relapse.
I'm still on relapse right now.
 
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