The social struggle is real

[g0rph]

Easter. Another "holiday" time where food is the focal point.
Just to clarify, I am the only vegan I know that lives anywhere near me. Dad of 2, family of 4.

I transitioned at the end of May 2022. So coming up to 11 months.
It was, I guess, much like the red pill on The Matrix film.
Early days, I managed s few summer BBQs along with Christmas reasonably well.
But I am more and more simply feeling depressed and isolated. I try to be social and friendly, but "Pass the lamb", "Anyone for more egg?", "Stick the (pork) sausages on the grill..." and I just feel sick.

It's making me a far less social person. I am finding it harder and harder to interact.

I thought that at my age, that it would be easy. I was wrong. I am not angry at these people. I love them. But there is no convincing, there is no getting through.

I dunno.

 

[Second Summer]

Sorry to hear you're having a rough time. Maybe you can take some small comfort in the knowledge that this is of course not an entirely unique experience, especially not for new vegans.

I had these kinds of experiences earlier in life. I felt quite alone, so I swore that any life partner I chose would share my values. At any cost. 20+ years later, I now live in a different country far away from my family/relatives and old friends. But my new family here - all three of us - are vegans!

Edit: Not suggesting you get a new family, just that it can take some time to get to a more comfortable situation!

 

[Deleted member 3018]

I can kinda relate. I'm not struggling with the problem that you have, but still.
It sucks.
Maybe doing some activism would help? That way you could find new friends with similar values and can do something that has a purpose.

 

[Brian W]

In Sweden it can be so hard to make any friends, let alone vegan friends. When you go for a walk in a natural area, it is punctuated by frequent BBQ spots where you can smell pungent smoked meat everywhere. When you do socialize, it is too often centered around food and drink. If you could think of a way of socializing without food being involved, things might be easier, but I don't know how you will achieve that.

 

[Lou]

my best advice is to go to the library and check out Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs, and Wear Cows:
by Melanie Joy. She has the best advice and way of thinking. If you don't like reading books she has written a lot of articles too. and if you don't like reading at all, the also has a lot of videos on YouTube. and a Ted Talk. oh and you can find her on some podcasts, too.

It may not be apparent from the title of the first book but her stuff is all about relationships. she is a Doctor of psychology.

I often recommend her stuff to people in this forum but I'm sure that her stuff is a great fit to help you with your issues.

About — Melanie Joy

www.melaniejoy.org

 

[Emma JC]

I am so sorry to hear you are having this struggle... here's the thing... a year ago that was you that was "Pass the lamb", "Anyone for more egg?", "Stick the (pork) sausages on the grill..." and I am not sure of your age but you spent a lot of years that way, as did most of us. My best advice is try to see things from their perspective too.

Do you do much of the cooking? if you do, awesome. If not maybe you need to start making lots of amazing food for them to tempt them to eat less animal products because they are too busy eating your food.

I do understand isolation and how it is easier to just stay away rather than participate where I am not comfortable and not just for food reasons. I am so fortunate that my spouse went vegan at the same time as I did and that makes life infinitely easier.

Hope things get easier soon.

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[Blues]

Maybe you could look for a plant base cooking class to join up to be around like minded people or if you are a competent cook you could set up classes in your area

 

[peakvegan]

Same round here. We are surrounded by farmland and the fields are full of baby lambs. My family frequently comment on them, saying how cute they are etc, then all tuck into roast lamb on Easter Sunday! I eat my soya sausage and keep my mouth shut (mostly) and try to remember that several years ago, I was that person too. Small steps: On Saturday we all ate a vegan lentil curry and that wouldn't have happened in the past. Plus desert on Easter Sunday was a vegan apple crumble. You can't win all the battles at once. Take comfort in your own personal contribution.

 

[g0rph]

I am so sorry to hear you are having this struggle... here's the thing... a year ago that was you that was "Pass the lamb", "Anyone for more egg?", "Stick the (pork) sausages on the grill..." and I am not sure of your age but you spent a lot of years that way, as did most of us. My best advice is try to see things from their perspective too.

Yes, I give out that advice too (on Reddit) quite often. That's essentially how I have managed so far

Do you do much of the cooking? if you do, awesome. If not maybe you need to start making lots of amazing food for them to tempt them to eat less animal products because they are too busy eating your food.

Yes, I do 99% of the cooking at home, all of it plant-based. We do a weekly take-out when they eat anything they like...
Essentially, even if I am the only vegan in a family of 4, there is approx the equivalent of 3 plant-based eaters living here

I do understand isolation and how it is easier to just stay away rather than participate where I am not comfortable and not just for food reasons. I am so fortunate that my spouse went vegan at the same time as I did and that makes life infinitely easier.

That would be perfect, but whilst she is fine with eating plant-based 90% of the time, she is unlikely ever to go vegan

Hope things get easier soon.

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

Thanks for that...

 

[g0rph]

my best advice is to go to the library and check out Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs, and Wear Cows:
by Melanie Joy. She has the best advice and way of thinking. If you don't like reading books she has written a lot of articles too. and if you don't like reading at all, the also has a lot of videos on YouTube. and a Ted Talk. oh and you can find her on some podcasts, too.

It may not be apparent from the title of the first book but her stuff is all about relationships. she is a Doctor of psychology.

I often recommend her stuff to people in this forum but I'm sure that her stuff is a great fit to help you with your issues.

About — Melanie Joy

www.melaniejoy.org

I'll look it up.
And, I love reading! I go through 2 or 3 books a week during summer My Kobo is packed with stuff!
(Mostly sci-fi, fantasy, horror mind you )

 

[g0rph]

In Sweden it can be so hard to make any friends, let alone vegan friends. When you go for a walk in a natural area, it is punctuated by frequent BBQ spots where you can smell pungent smoked meat everywhere. When you do socialize, it is too often centered around food and drink.

So, so true. Summer is BBQ and the smell of cooking flesh. I shouldn't complain, that was me not that long ago.

If you could think of a way of socializing without food being involved, things might be easier, but I don't know how you will achieve that.

Now winter is behind us, the motorbike is getting used. Second trip out today, and at least it's a cafe and cups of coffee. Sure, others go for non-vegan cakes and stuff, but that's not a major distraction. And nowadays there is usually at least one vegan option.

 

[g0rph]

Same round here. We are surrounded by farmland and the fields are full of baby lambs. My family frequently comment on them, saying how cute they are etc, then all tuck into roast lamb on Easter Sunday! I eat my soya sausage and keep my mouth shut (mostly) and try to remember that several years ago, I was that person too. Small steps: On Saturday we all ate a vegan lentil curry and that wouldn't have happened in the past. Plus desert on Easter Sunday was a vegan apple crumble. You can't win all the battles at once. Take comfort in your own personal contribution

Indeed. I do. I guess sometimes emotions just bubble up.

 

[Roy R]

Easter. Another "holiday" time where food is the focal point.
Just to clarify, I am the only vegan I know that lives anywhere near me. Dad of 2, family of 4.

I transitioned at the end of May 2022. So coming up to 11 months.
It was, I guess, much like the red pill on The Matrix film.
Early days, I managed s few summer BBQs along with Christmas reasonably well.
But I am more and more simply feeling depressed and isolated. I try to be social and friendly, but "Pass the lamb", "Anyone for more egg?", "Stick the (pork) sausages on the grill..." and I just feel sick.

It's making me a far less social person. I am finding it harder and harder to interact.

I thought that at my age, that it would be easy. I was wrong. I am not angry at these people. I love them. But there is no convincing, there is no getting through.

I dunno.

So sorry to hear this @g0rph, after 17 years I've given up, there was one person who I am closest to (a younger cousin) and I can't even convince her, I also feel quite alone - there doesn't seem to be any solidarity. I just can't get my head around someone who doesn't care even after they've been shown and told about what's going on. It just seems to go in one ear and out the other.

She just doesn't like animals - I can see it and feel it, mice, rats, pigeons, cats, dogs. She absolutely does like humans though - I can see that 100%.

I was always of the opinion that education is the key to ending suffering but I'm not so sure now. It's like they have no real love in their hearts. Just selfishness.

This was one of the reasons I'm glad I never had children, I would be heart broken if they ever started eating meat after raising them as a vegan. It seems worse for me that the younger generation turn a blind eye as they have all the information there right at their fingertips thanks to those heroes in the activist community risking their lives, and they have all of the alternative options to choose from food and clothing wise.

It would be interesting to know what prompted you to transition though, do you think whatever you saw or read about would maybe prompt them to (if they haven't seen or read about it already of course)

Could you maybe take them to an animal sanctuary so they could meet a little baby lamb or piglet or chicken etc and get them to make a real world connection? (are there any in Sweden?) If they are disgusted at handling them then I guess you have your answer. Obviously some vegans don't necessarily love animals but see that it is unjust to treat them in the way we do.

Have you seen the film Okja? - it's a good one for the family. Maybe it would spark some discussion rather than watching an out right documentary on the subject.

 

[Lou]

I'll look it up.
And, I love reading!

Why we love dogs is great and you should read it. but I was thinking that it might not be the best Melanie Joy book for you.

She also wrote Beyond Beliefs. I haven't read it yet but just from the book jacket I think it might be even more relevant to your needs.

"Vegans, vegetarians, and meat eaters can feel like they’re living in different worlds. Many vegans and vegetarians struggle to feel understood and respected in a meat-eating culture, where some of their most pressing concerns and cherished beliefs are invisible, and where they are often met with defensiveness when they try to talk about the issue. They can become frustrated and struggle to feel connected with meat eaters. And meat eaters can feel disconnected from vegans and vegetarians whose beliefs they don’t fully understand and whose frustration may spill over into their interactions. The good news is that relationship and communication breakdown among vegans, vegetarians, and meat eaters is not inevitable, and it is reversible. With the right tools, healthy connections can be cultivated, repaired, and even strengthened. In Beyond Beliefs, internationally recognized food psychology expert and longtime relationship coach Dr. Melanie Joy provides easy-to-understand, actionable advice so you can: • Learn the principles and tools for creating healthy relationships • Understand how to communicate about even the most challenging topics effectively • Recognize how the psychology of being vegan/vegetarian or of being a meat eater affects your relationships with others, and with yourself "​

​

Another book (that I have read) is The Joyful Vegan. It was one of the first "vegan book" I read and it was, for me, a paradigm shift.

 

[Col]

I have myself also felt this this Easter g0rph.
A meat-eating friend reminded me I should be tolerant of others who do not have the same reasons for becoming vegan that I did,
but there is the isolation which I have found got to me over Easter somewhat.

 

[Second Summer]

Sorry to hear, Col. I know what you mean.

I guess we all ought to make sure we attend all the vegan events that we can manage - and strike up those conversations! On the old boards (VB and VV) we tried to meet up more in person. I met many wonderful people, both in the US and a few here in the UK.

Around 2005 (has it really been that long ...?) I spent some time in the US, especially Chicago where my wife is from. They had a very active, friendly and welcoming vegan community over there at the time. I imagine something like that might exist in larger cities elsewhere as well, especially here in the UK. Maybe these are easier to get involved in for younger people. Although vegans come in all age groups!

 

[g0rph]

I have myself also felt this this Easter g0rph.
A meat-eating friend reminded me I should be tolerant of others who do not have the same reasons for becoming vegan that I did,
but there is the isolation which I have found got to me over Easter somewhat.

The problem with that response is that it is very close to the "personal choice" argument, where the "personal choice" of the slaughtered animal is completely disregarded ;(
Ask them if they would be tolerant if you kept a slave, or enjoyed shooting random dogs with a bb gun because that gave you pleasure.
And of course, I wouldn't ask that myself, but it's how I feel "inside". Which is the key to the stress.

 

[Col]

The problem with that response is that it is very close to the "personal choice" argument, where the "personal choice" of the slaughtered animal is completely disregarded ;(
Ask them if they would be tolerant if you kept a slave, or enjoyed shooting random dogs with a bb gun because that gave you pleasure.
And of course, I wouldn't ask that myself, but it's how I feel "inside". Which is the key to the stress.

Thanks mate I hope you had a bit of vegan chocolate for yourself

 

[g0rph]

Thanks mate I hope you had a bit of vegan chocolate for yourself

Nope. I had a soggy vegan sausage and some potato salad.

 

[Veganite]

I deal with this all the time with my own family, and the odd friend. I think they've learned to live with the fact, but they still don't hold back the jokes, or the meat, when hosting any events. I don't know if I feel isolated, but I do feel like a target for their ridicule.

Lately, as my family is mostly overweight and obese, they've been dieting, or trying to diet to lose weight. They are all focused on keto diets. Why? Because it allows them to eat all the meat and fatty foods they want.

I tried having a conversation about this, recently, and they tell me all that information I provided has been completely debunked. They start quoting some cardiologist called, Dr. Bret Scher, that promotes high meat & animal fat diets. They tell me that his information is new and debunks everything a plant-based doctor would tell you.

My point here is that arguing with them in any way or form is pointless, and even frustrating. Personally, unless the event is held outdoors, I usually don't attend, as I don't want to smell all the dead animals cooking inside a house. Turkey for example, I find the smell repulsive. Sadly, I just don't go to these family events anymore.

I haven't given up on my family. Like you, I love them dearly. I just limit social events I find uncomfortable. They seem to understand that at least.

To be honest, I wish I was as good at debating the lifestyle as someone like Earthling Ed. I try quoting a few plant-based doctors and get torn to shreds. If I try pleading with them on animal rights and the cruelty of factory farming, I get brushed off. They always have an excuse. Since I am not good at debating the plant-based and/or vegan argument, I don't try anymore. The only way I talk about it is if I'm asked.

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