Sorting this all out...

[TitanRay]

Right now, I have transitioned to phase who knows what because it started with eating mostly legumes and very little meat to reduce my grocery bill at home, to eating very little meat when out, to eating no meat when out, while leaning heavily on dairy and eggs. I decided to do a slooowww transition to vegan, watched a documentary about factory farming and kill floors upon recommendation, and that propelled my transition to warp speed. Here I am after a social week trying to figure out how to lean into this because I'm learning that eating at home is easy but eating a vegan diet at other people's homes and at most restaurants is extremely difficult.

I'm also extremely frugal, and I don't want to eat a veggie burger on a bed of lettuce every time I go to a restaurant for $30 a meal, especially since I prefer what I prepare much more. If I don't rip the band-aid, I'll continue to begrudgingly eat food that does not align with my values to keep my social life and to ease my people-pleasing ways. The thing is, to everyone around me, a hamburger bun is a hamburger bun, not a symbol of exploitation. Shrimp sitting on a platter of ice is not a sentient, over-sourced crustacean... A burger isn't an abused cow, or multiple abused cows, who tried to escape being slaughtered after living their whole life on a factory farm in deplorable conditions. It's just a juicy puck that only ever was and could only ever be a meat patty. I know this because that was the way I thought less than a year ago. I stand out like a sore and awkward thumb, and I really, really don't like that... But I also really feel like there can't be grey areas: You're either feeding the machine with consumerism, or you're starving it by withholding your dollars.

I also struggle with eating AND throwing the dairy and eggs in my home away because an animal suffered greatly, and it seems cruel to eat it, but it seems worse for it to end up in the trash. I also find myself uncomfortable with the judgment. We can eat something from the garden and discuss the entire process from A to Z while eating it, and it's all accolades, "yay, you! You grew a garden, and here WE all are eating the fruits of your labor". But when we abstain from meat and animal byproducts, we often endure judgy glares or dismissiveness, and oddly enough, people NEVER want to discuss how their steak and butter ended up on their plate. It's not polite dinner conversation, especially mid-bite. Any suggestions for social gatherings about other people's discomfort with my diet, and how to handle dairy and eggs in-house while transitioning, like a nearly full container of mayonnaise, are greatly appreciated.

 

[flowergirl0298]

This is the hardest part of becoming vegan isn’t it- socialising around food. I find most people accept that I am vegan and even apologise when eating animal products around me- I usually just mumble that I’m not the one you need to apologise to.
Unfortunately I don’t have suggestions for you as I now socialise less because of all the reasons you mentioned. The menus have improved for vegan options but having to sit and watch people consume without conscience has become too much for me. Choose gatherings that don’t include food is my only suggestion.

 

[g0rph]

The social aspect is the most difficult.
But in the end it's simply a case of letting people know you don't eat meat, milk and egg products.
Then if you are invited around somewhere then maybe simply ask if you should bring your own food. There are really only 2 responses to this...either they say "no, no, we have it covered" or "ah sure, that would be great".

With restaurants, check menus before going. My family is not vegan, but I basically only go to restaurants where they have at least one clear vegan option...and sure, sometimes it's a burger. No mind, it usually comes with fries and salad and in a previous life I may very well have chosen the Angus burger anyway.
If I end up being invited somewhere out of my control then they always have fries and salad, and I make do.
The tip here is to not worry about cross-contamination. i.e. If they fry non-vegan food in the same fat, I really don't care as my purchase is not paying for that stuff and any mild cross-contamination isn't gonna kill me. So don't sweat it.

One other thing is to not worry about mistakes (unless they are blindingly obvious), either by yourself or restaurants...
eg... I bought some vego nuggets, made some, ate a portion and then (wrong order I know), read the packet. They had egg white as an ingredient. I finished them and made a mental note not to buy that brand again. No point wasting...the damage as they say is already done.
Same with restaurants. If you've asked for a vegan burger and it says "vegan mayo" in the menu, don't keep double checking... I did that from the beginning and it's just a road to more stress.
Eat the burger, enjoy the mayo or aioli and leave it at that. If they made a mistake with the sauces then they did.

I even once ordered the plant-based sausage and was convinced it was meat. So I pestered the waiter. In the end the chef had to come out and convince me... Final result...it was plant-based and now I was super-stressed and had made a massive fuss in the restaurant. It was clearly different to sausages other members of the group had ordered, so I should have simply gone with the flow. You do your part in asking for vegan stuff and unless they plop a T-Bone steak in front of you, or a chicken leg, then I'd simply assume it's all clear.
I guess it does depend where you are though.

By the way, I've not done it myself, but if you're still worried here, just state that you don't eat meat and that you have a milk and egg allergy... Places are much more likely to be extra careful.

 

[TitanRay]

This is the hardest part of becoming vegan isn’t it- socialising around food. I find most people accept that I am vegan and even apologise when eating animal products around me- I usually just mumble that I’m not the one you need to apologise to.
Unfortunately I don’t have suggestions for you as I now socialise less because of all the reasons you mentioned. The menus have improved for vegan options but having to sit and watch people consume without conscience has become too much for me. Choose gatherings that don’t include food is my only suggestion.

Hello, thank you for the advice. I'm newly plant-based, but I am not young, so I reserve a little judgement because, aside from a few previous tries, I've eaten meat my entire life. I know very well that most people do not see their food as an animal. Personally, I thought that I was being much more conscious by avoiding meat while consuming dairy and eggs simply because I thought the animal was not slain for me to buy it. I wholeheartedly believe every person should be taught where their food comes from at an early age. Marketing shows happy cows on dairy farms, not the dark side of factory farming and animal abuse.

 

[TitanRay]

The social aspect is the most difficult.
But in the end it's simply a case of letting people know you don't eat meat, milk and egg products.
Then if you are invited around somewhere then maybe simply ask if you should bring your own food. There are really only 2 responses to this...either they say "no, no, we have it covered" or "ah sure, that would be great".

With restaurants, check menus before going. My family is not vegan, but I basically only go to restaurants where they have at least one clear vegan option...and sure, sometimes it's a burger. No mind, it usually comes with fries and salad and in a previous life I may very well have chosen the Angus burger anyway.
If I end up being invited somewhere out of my control then they always have fries and salad, and I make do.
The tip here is to not worry about cross-contamination. i.e. If they fry non-vegan food in the same fat, I really don't care as my purchase is not paying for that stuff and any mild cross-contamination isn't gonna kill me. So don't sweat it.

One other thing is to not worry about mistakes (unless they are blindingly obvious), either by yourself or restaurants...
eg... I bought some vego nuggets, made some, ate a portion and then (wrong order I know), read the packet. They had egg white as an ingredient. I finished them and made a mental note not to buy that brand again. No point wasting...the damage as they say is already done.
Same with restaurants. If you've asked for a vegan burger and it says "vegan mayo" in the menu, don't keep double checking... I did that from the beginning and it's just a road to more stress.
Eat the burger, enjoy the mayo or aioli and leave it at that. If they made a mistake with the sauces then they did.

I even once ordered the plant-based sausage and was convinced it was meat. So I pestered the waiter. In the end the chef had to come out and convince me... Final result...it was plant-based and now I was super-stressed and had made a massive fuss in the restaurant. It was clearly different to sausages other members of the group had ordered, so I should have simply gone with the flow. You do your part in asking for vegan stuff and unless they plop a T-Bone steak in front of you, or a chicken leg, then I'd simply assume it's all clear.
I guess it does depend where you are though.

By the way, I've not done it myself, but if you're still worried here, just state that you don't eat meat and that you have a milk and egg allergy... Places are much more likely to be extra careful.

Thank you for the advice! I'm just getting used to reading the package for everything I consume. I am cautious and hold myself accountable, but I am not torturing myself. I am surprised how pervasive animals and their byproduct are in our diet.

Food is such a social connection, and, personally speaking, I have historically focused on the menu. We have whole gatherings centered around what will be eaten, and who will provide what... The good thing is, when it comes to gatherings at someone's home, I've always been the one to bring the fruit. The bad thing is, I am not a picky eater, and it's convenient because I'm a people pleaser. I will usually say, "We can have whatever because I really don't care" and now I can't. I did bring my own plant-based burger to a recent gathering, and it was uncomfortable; we are social beings, so anything that sets us apart can feel like a threat, which will lead to social isolation. Luckily, I have supportive friends, and I will work on advocating for myself.

Restaurants... I think my mindset will have to move from the delicious things I will eat to the benefits of socializing because I can't justify $30 drops on veggie patties and fries unless simply based on that alone unless I'm coming from the perspective that the bill is covering the location, the staff, the utilities, etc., while still benefiting from being included and out and about with my friends.

 

[Emma JC]

one way some of us deal with this issue is to eat before you meet up with someone, eg restaurant, and then you can just order a salad or something small/vegan and don't feel ripped off - also take a dish to share when you go to someone's home and then eat the parts of the meal that are vegan that they have provided - I had a days long family reunion last year that was about an hour or so from my home, so I stayed home and ate breakfast before going, brought food and left before dinner which invariably was based around meat - I have many enjoyable hours with family and didn't make a fuss nor was I fussed over as they all know that I love them, I just don't love all their food

finishing the food in your refrigerator is not an issue...

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[Tom L.]

Welcome, @TitanRay . I assume you're unhappy abut the egg and dairy others in your household buy, don't eat, and then get discarded. That definitely sucks. I don't know what to do about it, though.

I think any flak you're getting about your veganism will subside soon: people will adjust to the fact that you've made this change in your life, it's working for you, and you're enjoying the change. Bringing your own main course and eating the vegan side-dishes shouldn't be a problem for the rest of the folks at the meal. But you wrote above: "....I'm also extremely frugal, and I don't want to eat a veggie burger on a bed of lettuce every time I go to a restaurant for $30 a meal, especially since I prefer what I prepare much more." WHAT??!! I love veggie burgers as much as anyone, and I'm sometimes a little annoyed that veggie burgers are often a bit more expensive than meat burgers- but $30 for a vegan burger (or ANY burger) is too much. I'm thinking about Burger King's "Impossible Whopper", which is one of my go-to vegetarian meals when I eat out; I think it's close to their normal Whopper in cost.

 

[allindogecoin]

Yes I agree this is the most difficult part of veganism. I think the main thing I should point out first to try not let yourself descend into misanthropy. I know this from experience. There is a dark side and a light side latent within all of us that is constantly in flux. Also embrace solitude but don't be completely isolated. Also keep having faith in humanity even if evidence and observation clearly shows that faith in humanity is misplaced or delusional.

Focusing on eating vegan in social settings, one option is to is to do the Peter Singer "vegan at home" option which is to eat vegan at home but vegetarian when eating out, and when eating out, rather than focusing on vegan ethics and animal suffering, lean into Buddhist vegetarianism eg read the Lankavatara Sutra or visit Ubud or Chiang Mai or Taiwan etc and research Buddhist vegetarianism. You will then have interesting Buddhism to talk to people about. When I was vegetarian, I found I didn't really need to talk about Buddhism. People did not really have issues with vegetarianism but being a male vegetarian seemed to raise eyebrows but this I assume was mostly curiosity rather than malice. I also found that Buddhist vegetarianism has a very interesting and fascinating history, so I am enjoying reading more and more about it, and I often talk to people in social situations about it and they tend to react well to it compared to e.g. if I talk about factory farming or CAFOs.

In practice, if you are vegan at home and vegetarian when you eat out, there is a good chance you will be about 98% vegan, so that is quite good. Obviously this depends how often you eat out. This is what I did for a while before I went fully vegan.

If you want to go 100% vegan then another option is to be a vegan for health. So you can call yourself vegan and say it is for health reasons or you can call yourself vegetarian (and maybe Buddhist vegetarian) but you are "on a diet" and you are very focused on good health. This means that in practice you can avoid eggs and dairy because you want to avoid saturated fat and you want to avoid cheese because of high levels of advanced glycation end products and saturated fat. So e.g. you can call yourself vegetarian, order the vegan option or ask the restaurant to take out any eggs, cheese etc, and then if someone asks why you don't have eggs, tell them you are careful about your health and want to avoid saturated fat. If going this route, be sure to have a counter to those who think saturated fats are harmless or even healthy. Do your reading into this. For example, eggs are a good source of choline, so someone may say that if you don't eat eggs you will not get enough choline, but you can simply say, "I get my choline from sunflower/soy lecithin." Something important is to not only do your research but to also be upfront about what you don't know (called "epistemic humility"). At the end of the day, knowledge and truth is not 100% but we try the best we can, and your wording should strike a good balance between being firm and confidence but also expressing openness to change and acknowledging the complexity of nutritional science. So you can say, "According to my research, I have been reading that saturated fat raises bad cholesterol and can cause inflammation..." and if the debate gets too intense you can tone it down and say, "...good point, I have not heard of that and I will research more into what you have said."

I know you mention you are frugal and like to replace meat with lentils, which is very smart. I think you can use this to turn any awkward conversations into a conversation about money. Eg if someone asks about your diet, you can tell them about how you are focused on being healthy but also you are finding you are saving a lot of money by replacing meat with lentils. This is something I have done but I found that there are many people who try to argue against you by saying that the amino acid profile in lentils is not good e.g. they may say lentils are low in leucine or methionine. So this is where you need to research the cost per protein and cost per leucine. Also read up into how it is not settled that methionine is good for you as there is a lot of research that suggests that restricting methionine could boost longevity. Leucine is important for building muscle and lentils have a low protein to calorie ratio as well as low leucine levels. However, I assume lentils are not your only source of plant protein. There are other sources of plant protein with higher protein to calorie ratio or leucine levels eg hemp protein or pea protein. Even something like soymilk has good amounts of protein in it.

With the "vegan for health" strategy, one important principle I think is to focus your energy on defending veganism rather than attacking omnivorism. This makes it far easier. In my opinion, if done properly, it is possible to eat a healthy omnivore diet eg if you don't eat too much eggs (less than two per day) to minimise saturated fat; if you cook any meat with moist low heat rather than dry high heat (to minimise AGEs, HCAs, and PAHs); if you avoid red meat due to concerns about heme iron and neu5GC; and if you avoid salami, sausages and bacon (nitrates, nitrites, phosphate additives). So it is possible, I think, to be healthy on an omnivore diet, but it seems hard. But the same can apply to veganism. You need to be mindful of some nutrients you may be low in e.g. B12, iodine, choline, zinc, etc and purposefully make sure you get them, so that can be hard too, but it's not hard if you develop the habit to eat healthy, and that applies to both veganism and omnivorism. As for attacks on veganism, mostly it will be relating to possible nutrient deficiencies. If people raise it, e.g. if someone says, "what about B12?" then just tell them exactly what you eat to get B12 e.g. nutritional yeast, soy milk, and/or a supplement. If you focus exactly on what you do rather than population level studies, it grounds everything in concrete actions that you actually do, so there is less room for debate. Also when you feel you are being attacked, be sure to be firm and assertive in defending yourself first but then put the burden of evidence back on the person making the accusation e.g. if someone says, "Doesn't soy reduce your testosterone and makes you less manly," this is when you say, "Well, based on my research, soy is not harmful. Soy isoflavones are healthy for you. They are anti-inflammatory and reduce cancer risk. I eat lots of tofu, tempeh, edamame, and soymilk. But feel free to e-mail me your research. I'm open to new ideas."

Something else I should mention is that if you are "performing" in social settings for a while, you may feel you are not being authentic or may even feel isolated because you cannot be authentic. This is like being at work where you cannot often be your true authentic self because you may need to perform in order to earn a paycheck. So to be authentic, it is a good idea to try to find some people who really know you whether that is a vegan or maybe even a non-vegan or vegetarian who is a good friend you can talk more honestly to. If there is no one, perhaps an AI chatbot can substitute for a truly understanding human but perhaps not.