I'm 64 years old and have been vegetarian for 40 years and vegan for 1.5 years. I'm horrified at US election (I live in Virginia) and would like to retire outside of U.S. Which country (ies) would you recommend based on a combination of low cost of living, acceptance (and pragmatism) of vegan life style, and ease of immigration for retirees with acceptable levels of income?
Outside US vegan places to retire
- Thread starter retiringvegan
- Start date
I'm a couple years less and also thinking about being an expat. Most of my friends, some from Mexico, are pretty set on Mexico. I think I run too warm for that climate!
It all depends on what you mean by low cost of living. You would also have to take into account any language barrier if you decide on a non English speaking country. I believe that no country has an ideal vegan lifestyle.
Some areas of Portugal (Algarve) have a large vegan expat community. However, the rest of the country isn't particularly a leader of animal rights and veganism. Bullfighting in Southern Europe is still popular with some of the population.
One important factor for seniors when considering to move abroad is access to a reliable and good health care. 64 is apparently the dodgy age where most people start to decline.
www.internationalinsurance.com
You could also consider just moving to a more progressive and vegan friendly area such as Portland. My friend's son (who is a Brit) lives there and apparently it is very vegan friendly and also eco friendly.
I am a member of many expat forums/FB groups and a majority of people once they hit their mid/late 60's are returning home. Being an expat isn't as rosy as it would seem. Moreover the language barrier and not feeling 'at home' especially if you have to go into a care facility, is daunting.
Some areas of Portugal (Algarve) have a large vegan expat community. However, the rest of the country isn't particularly a leader of animal rights and veganism. Bullfighting in Southern Europe is still popular with some of the population.
One important factor for seniors when considering to move abroad is access to a reliable and good health care. 64 is apparently the dodgy age where most people start to decline.
The Best Healthcare in the World: Country Rankings
Discover the countries with the best healthcare in 2024 and learn about the key factors that make Italy, Singapore, and Iceland top the list.
www.internationalinsurance.com
You could also consider just moving to a more progressive and vegan friendly area such as Portland. My friend's son (who is a Brit) lives there and apparently it is very vegan friendly and also eco friendly.
I am a member of many expat forums/FB groups and a majority of people once they hit their mid/late 60's are returning home. Being an expat isn't as rosy as it would seem. Moreover the language barrier and not feeling 'at home' especially if you have to go into a care facility, is daunting.
I would suggest that unless you have already done a lot of travelling (outside of the USA) that you do that first before making such a huge decision. I also understand wishing to leave and don't blame you. I moved within Canada back in 1999, to a place I knew no one and was thousands of miles from my friends and family. I did it out of fear of Y2K and discoverd that after 3 months I didn't really care about that fear anymore and just wished to go home, which I did.
When my honey and I were looking for a new town/place to live a few years ago, we went and stayed in that town for a number of days, in a hotel and discovered very quickly that it was not a place for us as we did not feel comfortable at all.
Maybe consider leaving for a month or so, at a time, to see what it is like to live (not just visit a resort) in other parts of the world. You may already have done this in your life and if you haven't then it seems this might be a good time to do so.
All the best with your decision and remember not to make hasty decisions when you are experiencing grief.... I join you in the grief and it isn't even my country.
Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com
Graeme M
Forum Legend
I'm curious what you see as being the reason to leave? Any Western nation is typically about 1/3 hardcore left-wing, about 1/3 hardcore right-wing and about 30% swinging. Most elections often end up around 50/50 in the end except when the public is particularly unhappy about something. What I'm getting at is that it's always likely that a LW government will be replaced by a RW government sooner rather than later - our political systems are geared to do just that. From here in Australia, I don't see any huge reasons to be unhappy about where things will go - Trump's previous presidency seemed to go OK except during Covid but many governments struggled with that.
What I am getting at is that there was always going to be a Republican government again. Trump is a bit of a weirdo, but so is Joe Biden. Why should this presidency/Republican government be a major reason to leave the US?
What I am getting at is that there was always going to be a Republican government again. Trump is a bit of a weirdo, but so is Joe Biden. Why should this presidency/Republican government be a major reason to leave the US?
This particular US government is downright dangerous. I personally view Trump as more dangerous than Putin.
I don't blame anyone wanting to leave what is heading toward being a fascist run state.
And to be honest, your generalisation of hardcore left and right are WAY off the mark.
The left in the USA are further right than the right here in Sweden.
The USA has become a totally divided US v THEM society.
But now Trump has gained pretty much full control, which he did not in 2016, the coming changes could be disastrous for many people, not least of which minorities, LGBT and women in general.
You could not pay me enough to live there...(California at a pinch).
With project 2025 and the power to implement it, I worry for the rational people who live there. Just look at the people he is putting in his cabinet!
As for "Trump is a bit of a weirdo, but so is Joe Biden"
Joe Biden is getting old and a bit senile, but he seems fairly decent.
Trump is a sexual predator, a thief, someone who mocks the disabled and war veterans (whilst dodging it himself), a convicted felon, a habitual liar and quite obviously a narcissistic sociopath. He is a disgusting human being.
Comparing them is laughable.
Graeme M
Forum Legend
I don't know you or your background, but you are in Sweden so I imagine your take is necessarily built from second-hand knowledge - likely the left-leaning media. I'm interested in why an American might want to leave, given that Trump is overwhelmingly preferred by the US population.
To clarify something, I didn't mean that there is a strong far-left contingent in the US population, but rather that about a third will support the left come what may, as will a third support the right. It's the swinging voters that most Western political parties want to convince. As a result, it's usually true that after a while any government will change. But abandoning your country because the party you don't support wins government seems rather odd to me.
Clearly Trump will either do a good or bad job, and in the latter case be turfed out in four years. If he does the former, then leaving seems a bit rash because the country might be a lot better for that.
@Graeme M Currently, the United States constitution sets a limit of 2 terms for the President. Most other elected officials can stay in office so long as they keep getting re-elected. I'm a little embarrassed to admit this article had some things I wasn't aware of (*+* WARNING: click at your own risk):
en.wikipedia.org
I think president Franklin Delano Roosevelt was the only one to ever serve more than two terms. Donald Trump is the first president in my country's history to be re-elected for his second term after losing an election at the end of his first term- but as things stand, he's out for good once this term ends. (Or perhaps sooner than that- he's the only president to have been impeached twice as it is, and he can be impeached a third time if he gives enough people a reason to do that.) I'm not currently worried about some sort of revolution happening, with Trump becoming dictator; I hope I'm not being naive.
(*+* : I usually avoid using Wikipedia because they keep bugging me for a donation when I access their website, and I think they should get something for their work- but I wanted to give their website credit since I got this info there. And I don't have a PayPal account.)
Term limits in the United States - Wikipedia
I think president Franklin Delano Roosevelt was the only one to ever serve more than two terms. Donald Trump is the first president in my country's history to be re-elected for his second term after losing an election at the end of his first term- but as things stand, he's out for good once this term ends. (Or perhaps sooner than that- he's the only president to have been impeached twice as it is, and he can be impeached a third time if he gives enough people a reason to do that.) I'm not currently worried about some sort of revolution happening, with Trump becoming dictator; I hope I'm not being naive.
(*+* : I usually avoid using Wikipedia because they keep bugging me for a donation when I access their website, and I think they should get something for their work- but I wanted to give their website credit since I got this info there. And I don't have a PayPal account.)
« C’mon, how bad could it possibly get? JUST GIVE HIM A CHANCE!
He just wants to make the country great again »
- German voters, 1933
He just wants to make the country great again »
- German voters, 1933
Ecuador used to be an excellent expat destination. I know they had some trouble there a while back, but still is worth investigating in my opinion.
Mexico does has some very dangerous areas, without a question, but there also many great and safe expat communities there too. Again, worth researching.
Other options might include Thailand, France, Portugal, etc. I'm not sure what the top ten expat destinations are these days, but a little research goes a long ways. YouTube is useful for more picturesque description.
My first choice would probably be Mexico for locally sourced fruits and vegetables. It is also quite affordable to live in Mexico. I had a friend that lived there for over two decades, but he recently passed away. He loved Mexico.
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Mexico does has some very dangerous areas, without a question, but there also many great and safe expat communities there too. Again, worth researching.
Other options might include Thailand, France, Portugal, etc. I'm not sure what the top ten expat destinations are these days, but a little research goes a long ways. YouTube is useful for more picturesque description.
My first choice would probably be Mexico for locally sourced fruits and vegetables. It is also quite affordable to live in Mexico. I had a friend that lived there for over two decades, but he recently passed away. He loved Mexico.
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This isn't like Labour/Tory in the UK, or Australia Labor/ Liberal+National
This isn't Bush v John Kerry or Obama v McCain
This is an uber-extreme example. It has strong echoes of 1933 Germany rhetoric.
I'm not sure I have seen a more naive sentence.
Project 2025 if Trump decides to push through the agenda...
Women's abortion rights could be all but removed on a Federal level.
LGBT rights will vanish, overturning the right of gay marriage.
Climate change research will be ended and positive climate actions reversed.
Ending federal efforts to combat online disinformation
“Schedule F” reforms, that would force tens of thousands of civil servants — including in agencies that protect civil rights — to serve the president’s political aims instead of serving the public interest.
among other things.
And I wouldn't be at all surprised if he tries to get the "2 term rule" overturned. Don't forget he admires both Putin and Kim Jong Un.
Graeme M
Forum Legend
I realise we all have our opinions, but for me that smacks of crazy tin-foil hat stuff. It bothers me that so many people say stuff like this - it shows how easily people are manipulated by the media. At the end of four years, the people will vote and their wishes served. If nothing else, Trump is for the people.
I think that's a rational response.
I would say that Thailand isn't a vegan friendly country due to the way the treat animals; especially dogs.
France also isn't a very vegan friendly country and the cost of living is expensive. There is not only a sense of isolation when you're a vegan over here but also a feeling that this country is quite backward. They still have bullfighting in the south and there are over a million hunters.
I also find that many people are easily manipulated by the mainstream media. Moreover, I wonder how many people have actually left the US as they said they would?
Graeme M
Forum Legend
I saw a news item today that mentioned some person did actually do that. It would be interesting to know. Did you see that the other day some poor deluded person killed himself and his family over Trump's election success? This is just terrible - imagining Trump to be some evil monster who wants to create a fascist stae is simply bizarre, but making rash decisions as a result is very sad. The media really is a problem, and I think social media in particular, together with the cult of celebrity, has done so much damage to our societies and the public forum.
lol...I was merely suggesting expat countries that are popular for retirement, as in the ever-changing top ten. No need to attack my suggestion. For me retirement means being able to afford to live comfortably. FYI, a Google search will provide similar results to my suggestions.
Thanks for your input though Shyvas. I'd be interested where you suggest the OP retires that doesn't have any form of animal cruelty, if such a place exists? Some maybe worse than others for sure. That is not so easy to define, as you can read below.
The Best & Worst Countries for Animal Welfare Are Difficult to Measure
An imperfect but important ranking system, explained.
sentientmedia.org
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Are being serious? Trump is all about what's best for Trump. You think he care's about "the people"?
I have no doubts that Trump and his administration will be a disaster for the majority of US Americans. (And for the world, mainly because of climate change denial, but also US foreign policy.) I believe a majority of Europeans share my belief the Trump administration will be a disaster.
However, I very much doubt he will be able to get a third term. First of all, he will be very old by then, and also because this requires a 2/3 majority in the Senate to change the law, and no one is ever going to get a 2/3 majority - as long as there are still relatively free and fair elections. I don't think 4 years is enough time to kill off democracy in the US to that extent, but if US voters continue to elect authoritarian-leaning post truth politicians like Trump in the future, then yes. But by then Trump will be much too old, or even dead and buried.
I think Americans have a duty to try and fix their country while it's still possible, so for democracy supporters to move abroad at this point is maybe not helpful.
It might be useful to compare the US to Russia, to see how democracy is not guaranteed to survive authoritarian post truth politicians, given enough time. For Russians it is now too late to fix their country through democratic means, and I think the democratic world has a duty to try and help Russians who flee their homeland.
However, I very much doubt he will be able to get a third term. First of all, he will be very old by then, and also because this requires a 2/3 majority in the Senate to change the law, and no one is ever going to get a 2/3 majority - as long as there are still relatively free and fair elections. I don't think 4 years is enough time to kill off democracy in the US to that extent, but if US voters continue to elect authoritarian-leaning post truth politicians like Trump in the future, then yes. But by then Trump will be much too old, or even dead and buried.
I think Americans have a duty to try and fix their country while it's still possible, so for democracy supporters to move abroad at this point is maybe not helpful.
It might be useful to compare the US to Russia, to see how democracy is not guaranteed to survive authoritarian post truth politicians, given enough time. For Russians it is now too late to fix their country through democratic means, and I think the democratic world has a duty to try and help Russians who flee their homeland.
Lou
Forum Legend
@Graeme M Currently, the United States constitution sets a limit of 2 terms for the President. Most other elected officials can stay in office so long as they keep getting re-elected. I'm a little embarrassed to admit this article had some things I wasn't aware of (*+* WARNING: click at your own risk):
Term limits in the United States - Wikipedia
I think president Franklin Delano Roosevelt was the only one to ever serve more than two terms. Donald Trump is the first president in my country's history to be re-elected for his second term after losing an election at the end of his first term- but as things stand, he's out for good once this term ends. (Or perhaps sooner than that- he's the only president to have been impeached twice as it is, and he can be impeached a third time if he gives enough people a reason to do that.) I'm not currently worried about some sort of revolution happening, with Trump becoming dictator; I hope I'm not being naive.
(*+* : I usually avoid using Wikipedia because they keep bugging me for a donation when I access their website, and I think they should get something for their work- but I wanted to give their website credit since I got this info there. And I don't have a PayPal account.)
That was as a good article and very informative. A lot of people believe you don't need term limits as long as you have elections. In this country, that has been a good enough guardrail. but there has been a movement to enact term limits.
The one place that its somewhat obvious we need term limits are where judges are appointed to life long office.I
yes. several tried to be elected to a third term but failed. In 1951 the 22nd amendment made a two term limit for the president official.
And as your article pointed out, for much of our history, a two term limit was an unwritten rule.
no, Grover Cleveland was. Also of note there are many similarities between Trump and Cleveland. Cleveland's presidency is remembered for its scandals, corruption, infidelity, ... although compared to trump Cleveland was a choir boy. And maybe not as bad as president as he is remembered.
Unless they repeal the 22nd amendment. Or perhaps by force.
Graeme M
Forum Legend
As an interested but distant observer, I hope this is not the case. I rather doubt it will be, however I don't think Trump can fix many systemic problems facing the world today. A biggie is that I don't think we are likely to see any significant improvement in economic conditions, if by that we mean growing prosperity and strengthening economies. Almost certainly the move towards renewable energy will be a costly one that must seriously impair the capacity of modern countries to foster further economic development. Which would be ironic given that a big part of green economic policy is to find ways to empower capitalism in the face of a growing lack of cheap energy from fossil fuels.
As you suggest, it is very unlikely Trump will or could be elected to a third term. And given it's unlikely he can do much to make America great again, it's possible a revitalized Dems will be successful at the ballot box.
That's a great point. All this tin-foil hat stuff about Project 2025 etc is simply not worth worrying about. Get on with living life and vote for what's best at the next election. Unfortunately, I think we in the West may have to get used to a slowly deteriorating society and there probably are no genuinely effective political solutions.
Sure, Trump's a narcissistic egotist who sometimes does dumb stuff but there are few leaders who are not like that. Our Aussie PM is of that kind, and our Labor PM of a few years ago, Kevin Rudd (who is currently our ambassador to the US) is a prime example as well. So too conservative (?) ex-PM Malcolm Turnbull and the ever-nutty Scott Morrison. Things will be largely fine for the few years till he can be voted out, IF he does a poor job.
