Ahhh, OK. Sorry about that. Sometimes I forget to look under people's names to check where they live.
NZ My parents won't let me go vegetarian
- Thread starter Luis Halson
- Start date
Hey Luis,
good wishes from a fellow vegan at the other end of the world.
It seems your parents are not very open and do not value you making decisions for yourself. Most of their arguments strike me as selfish/controlling, they sound like jerks to me (apologies, but that is my impression).
How would they react to a more confrontational approach, e.g. you just not eating any more meat? Just veggies and leaving over the rest to be thrown away (I know, does not make much sense objectively, other than tell them you mean it).
They can not really force it down your throat, right? Or just not come to dinner at all if they refuse to cook something where you can not even eat the side dishes.
You might want to build up some clandestine stash of non-perishable food in your room or a secret place before it comes to, e.g. a hunger strike by you.
Maybe this book would help you and give you some ideas?
Generation V
Take a look and order it on kindle (free app for most phones available) if you are interested.
good wishes from a fellow vegan at the other end of the world.
It seems your parents are not very open and do not value you making decisions for yourself. Most of their arguments strike me as selfish/controlling, they sound like jerks to me (apologies, but that is my impression).
How would they react to a more confrontational approach, e.g. you just not eating any more meat? Just veggies and leaving over the rest to be thrown away (I know, does not make much sense objectively, other than tell them you mean it).
They can not really force it down your throat, right? Or just not come to dinner at all if they refuse to cook something where you can not even eat the side dishes.
You might want to build up some clandestine stash of non-perishable food in your room or a secret place before it comes to, e.g. a hunger strike by you.
Maybe this book would help you and give you some ideas?
Generation V
Take a look and order it on kindle (free app for most phones available) if you are interested.
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My mom was the same way, as she sees making food for others as a way to show love. But she has come around a lot over the years and she is very proud when she makes a tasty vegan meal for me and sometimes for the whole family. My dad really likes my vegan treats. I made him vegan peanut butter and chocolate cookies and dropped them off yesterday. He was so appreciative, and I'm sure he's gobbled up a good chunk of them by now, haha.
OP
OP
Andy_T, TofuRobot said that earlier on - that I just don't eat their meat until they realise they have to let me cook veg. I am doing that as a last resort, as it will annoy my parents.
We had a violent flatmate for the lockdown and we had to move out (normally we wouldn't be allowed to because of the lockdown but the police said that it was OK because our flamate was violent) . We are getting a new home with other flatmates tommorow (it has chickens, yay!). Maybe I could cook the vegan lasagna with them?
In the meantime, it looks like I will just have to keep using facts and talking to them about vegetarianism/veganism.
We had a violent flatmate for the lockdown and we had to move out (normally we wouldn't be allowed to because of the lockdown but the police said that it was OK because our flamate was violent) . We are getting a new home with other flatmates tommorow (it has chickens, yay!). Maybe I could cook the vegan lasagna with them?
In the meantime, it looks like I will just have to keep using facts and talking to them about vegetarianism/veganism.
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OP
OP
Now that we've moved, we are living in a big, rural house now. Our new flatmates are very friendly, and they have 3 free-range hens too (its winter here in New Zealand so they aren't laying right now).
I tried asking them again today, but less confrontational than usual. e.g. it would be like a nice chat, and I'm like telling them my arguments without making my point too confrontational. Managed at least to get a nice compromise of trying to eat a little less meat (it wasn't a really a "one day a week we eat veg" it was more of a "we will take a few meat-free days occasionaly as a family")
I tried asking them again today, but less confrontational than usual. e.g. it would be like a nice chat, and I'm like telling them my arguments without making my point too confrontational. Managed at least to get a nice compromise of trying to eat a little less meat (it wasn't a really a "one day a week we eat veg" it was more of a "we will take a few meat-free days occasionaly as a family")
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Have you or your parents tried cooking a pasta (example
esto) and putting the meat on the side? Then you can opt not to eat it and your parents can add it if they want to?Pasta Caponata is a good pasta dish to make. It's a traditional Italian dish which just happens to be vegan. I made it the other night and it's lovely. It's not a 'vegan version' which so often puts people off - this is the real deal, an authentic Italian recipe.
You'll enjoy getting to know the chickens. They are one of my favorite animals.
OP
OP
The chickens are quite nice. They are SO loud 
! One day I'll ask our flatmates to cook the Caponata with me (the recipe sounds delicious Michael UK!)
Bad news: our flatmates are cooking chicken stew for all of us today
. Any more things I can tell my parents? (when I ask them their response is still "In a family, the cook makes the food for the whole family" or other similar silly arguments)
! One day I'll ask our flatmates to cook the Caponata with me (the recipe sounds delicious Michael UK!)Bad news: our flatmates are cooking chicken stew for all of us today
. Any more things I can tell my parents? (when I ask them their response is still "In a family, the cook makes the food for the whole family" or other similar silly arguments)Maybe ask them what that means for the family in a couple of years, when they can't try to control what you eat. Are you going to be less of a family because you're not all eating the same thing? Are your family bonds really that fragile, that they depend on you eating the same thing at every meal?The chickens are quite nice. They are SO loud
Bad news: our flatmates are cooking chicken stew for all of us today
The Master Of Design
Forum Practitioner
Just show them these pictures and statistics you found, also mention that many celebrities are Vegans,Vegeterians. I don't know how old are you. If you are a teenager rebel against them, say you are not going to eat, etc. Few days like this and they will be more open to change. Also tip. If you find a recipe online and buy those ingredients in advance they probably will cook it since you already got the ingredients.
I made an e-book with easy and delicious recipes a week ago plus you can order all ingredients online.
You can download it here, just need google account: Redirecting...
Update us how it goes!
OP
OP
The Master of Design, their "health" argument is no longer relevant - I managed to convince them that meat is NOT a health food. Their main argument is just "We live together as a family in the same house, so we eat the same meals". They also say that when I moove out of their house in a few years I can go veg and they will respect that, but as long as I am in their home I will eat meat.example
I'm about to go web-hunting for good facts and stats about the environmental, health, ethical etc. reasons to go vegetarian. Maybe I could even point out that veg diets are cheaper!
I'll just have to keep pressuring them to let me go vegetarian. I'll give myself 8 days to change their opinion, and if I can't I'll just not eat meat anymore.
Hello crocodile, we all live in the same house as a family. My wife and I only eat a plant-based diet, my two sons are both omnivores, as are the two dogs! We all manage to eat what we want, even 'when we want', so different meal times are catered for. When the dogs get bored of what they're eating we mix it up a little. Catering for your individual requirements isn't rocket science and your parents argument is a little lame. I think you're wasting your time by trying to educate them though and will achieve nothing more than irritating them. When I was your age (43 years ago!), I had to stay at the table and eat what I was given until it was gone (thankfully we had a dog) - and sometimes I was sat at the table for an hour or more after everyone else had finished - but I would have hoped that we lived in a more enlightened age these days - given what you say though, perhaps not.
OP
OP
Day 1: I asked them for the millionth time to let me go vegetarian, but it didn't help at all. I started drafting a letter to my parents to let me stop eating the poor animals. Remember, if I can't convince them by day 8 I can just refuse the meat they give me - they aren't going to force-feed me with a tube, like some people heartlessly do to the poor ducks and geese in foie gras production.
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The Master Of Design
Forum Practitioner
I was once living with my family and had similar issues so I will tell you what worked for me. First I told them animals have heart, brain and feel pain like we do, and it's much like our dog. Show them footages of slaughterhouses and say: this is what we support when we eat meat and we don't have to. I REFUSE to be part of it as I believe this is not how we should live. If they are religious say "The bible says "you shall not kill" and eating meat is the same thing as if we kill them indirectly." You have to have confidence in yourself and your beliefs. If you believe this is the right thing to do you have to stand for your right in your family. You have to understand your parents don't know everything and that they can learn from you too. It will require much strength from you and you might even have to fight them in arguments. If they still want to control you, say you feel they want to control you and you won't forgive or forget how they treated you and you don't want to eat with them on the same table unless they are willing to at least hear what you have to say and respect your choice.
And at the end, if you can't win over them to pursue them to eat vegetarian/vegan tell them they don't have to, you did your part you gave them information and it's up to them what they will choose to eat and so it's up to you to have the right to eat what you want.
Another approach is that as I said earlier buy ingredients and find easy recipes like those in my e-book. Have some freelance work, or if you have some savings, start cooking yourself, or ask them to cook for you, if they don't want to ignore them for a while if that's what requires.
Note: This is just my personality and you might be a bit different, but whatever approach you choose don't close your eyes to the truth. It will make you stronger and prepare you for many other things in life. I always demand respect whether that may be in my family, friends, or relationships. That's the only right way to live if you ask me.
OP
OP
Day 2: I finished writing the letter to my parents. I don't know if my parents have read it (yet).
Master of Design, you have some good advice! I already have like 20 pictures of cruel "farms", but many people have told me that is not the best approach. However, now that you said that it worked for you, I think I'll use them today !
Master of Design, you have some good advice! I already have like 20 pictures of cruel "farms", but many people have told me that is not the best approach. However, now that you said that it worked for you, I think I'll use them today !
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OP
OP
Day 3: Did nothing.
Day 4 (today): They read my letter on Day 3, and my dad had a 15 minute speech with me. He was supported by my mum. The speech said that he thought vegan food is expensive, that veg diets are unhealthy and he said that it is expensive.
However, he also said in his speech that he made up a compromise - that I can eat a little less meat than before, as long as he deems it practical and healthy, but if I ask him to let me go vegetarian, he will make us go back to a meat lovers diet.
Flaws in his speech:
- Vegetarian diets are cheaper than meat-eating (don't know about vegan since dairy replacements (e.g. soymik) are more expensive and I don't know about egg replacements e.g. flaxseeds)
- Vegetarian diets are healthier than meat eating. He still thinks meat is a health food, and he said that the sources saying that veg diets are healthier I found are for adults and do not apply for children, and he still thinks meat is the only source of calories. He also says that because we "only" eat about 100 g of meat daily it doesn't apply for us.
- Vegetarian diets are more sustainable. He has a conspiracy theory saying that the sources that say that vegan diets are better for the environment are "fake news", and meat production is better for the environment than vegetable growing.
- He says that on New Zealand they do treat livestock well (and then he goes and buys cage eggs, which I had to convince him out of, although he still buys cage chicken meat and I can't convince him out of that)
He also has the image of a preachy offensive vegan that bullies anyone who dares to eat meat.
Day 4 (today): They read my letter on Day 3, and my dad had a 15 minute speech with me. He was supported by my mum. The speech said that he thought vegan food is expensive, that veg diets are unhealthy and he said that it is expensive.
However, he also said in his speech that he made up a compromise - that I can eat a little less meat than before, as long as he deems it practical and healthy, but if I ask him to let me go vegetarian, he will make us go back to a meat lovers diet.
Flaws in his speech:
- Vegetarian diets are cheaper than meat-eating (don't know about vegan since dairy replacements (e.g. soymik) are more expensive and I don't know about egg replacements e.g. flaxseeds)
- Vegetarian diets are healthier than meat eating. He still thinks meat is a health food, and he said that the sources saying that veg diets are healthier I found are for adults and do not apply for children, and he still thinks meat is the only source of calories. He also says that because we "only" eat about 100 g of meat daily it doesn't apply for us.
- Vegetarian diets are more sustainable. He has a conspiracy theory saying that the sources that say that vegan diets are better for the environment are "fake news", and meat production is better for the environment than vegetable growing.
- He says that on New Zealand they do treat livestock well (and then he goes and buys cage eggs, which I had to convince him out of, although he still buys cage chicken meat and I can't convince him out of that)
He also has the image of a preachy offensive vegan that bullies anyone who dares to eat meat.
The Master Of Design
Forum Practitioner
Obviously you have a too soft approach but I don't know your age. No matter how old are you, you can stand for your right. Tell him about many celebrities who are Vegans/vegetarians and ask him how come they are living so good and ask your dad if he's smarter than Einstein who also became vegeterian. Ask him if he's strong as Nimai Delgado who was born vegetarian and never tried meat. Ask your dad how does he know what's "fake news" and what's not. Ask him specifically from what sources he heard. Are they from the meat industry? If so don't he think that they are selling him "fake news". Also, ask him what he thinks morally is right to do. If he has or had a dog don't he thinks it's the same and it's wrong? If he says he loves animals don't he thinks it's a hypocrite thing to eat them.
Find Jon Venus meal plans preparations on youtube they will help you to see the cost and how you can do meal preparations too. If you want to change something you change it no matter what. So, hold to your side, don't be afraid of your father because the worst-case scenario is that he can slap you and so what. Believe me, my father would leave me on the street to walk 20km to home on 40 degrees without having breakfast yet because I didn't want to listen to him. And many times we had fights and it took me years to win and now he knows he can't argue with me.
David3
Forum Legend
I'm going to provide a contrasting viewpoint here, while still acknowledging that Master of Design's approach can work.
Luis, although it's too late now, I think that this outcome would have been better if your approach was much more relaxed. Instead of presenting your (factually well-established but) rather aggressive case, you could have simply started by making some beans in the kitchen, and adding them to your meals. No mention of vegetarianism was ever necessary. You could have just told your family that you tried some beans at school, and you'd like to have some at home. Over time, you could have eaten more beans and less meat. Your family might have even joined you.
Luis, your family's argument is not about facts. It is about your parents' desire to raise you a certain way, determined according to their sensibilities. They believe that they know better than you, and (considering that you're only 15 years old) this is probably true in many respects. In regards to vegetarianism, they are incorrect. They may be afraid of losing their ability to guide you in other, more critical ways. They may fear that your vegetarianism will lead to other choices - ones that they disagree with (progressive politics, for example).
Luis, my advice is to relax, and accept your parents' compromise to eat less meat and more beans/lentils. Relax - it takes time for people to change. Over time, your parents may also relax their fears about vegetarianism. It won't be long before you are living independently, and then you can do what you wish. I didn't become a vegan until I was 22 years old. I’m now 51.
Luis, although it's too late now, I think that this outcome would have been better if your approach was much more relaxed. Instead of presenting your (factually well-established but) rather aggressive case, you could have simply started by making some beans in the kitchen, and adding them to your meals. No mention of vegetarianism was ever necessary. You could have just told your family that you tried some beans at school, and you'd like to have some at home. Over time, you could have eaten more beans and less meat. Your family might have even joined you.
Luis, your family's argument is not about facts. It is about your parents' desire to raise you a certain way, determined according to their sensibilities. They believe that they know better than you, and (considering that you're only 15 years old) this is probably true in many respects. In regards to vegetarianism, they are incorrect. They may be afraid of losing their ability to guide you in other, more critical ways. They may fear that your vegetarianism will lead to other choices - ones that they disagree with (progressive politics, for example).
Luis, my advice is to relax, and accept your parents' compromise to eat less meat and more beans/lentils. Relax - it takes time for people to change. Over time, your parents may also relax their fears about vegetarianism. It won't be long before you are living independently, and then you can do what you wish. I didn't become a vegan until I was 22 years old. I’m now 51.
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