Philosophy of being a vegan.

[Vegan Nomad]

As a nomadic person, I do speak with people from most of the world, and I have found that some vegans are very extreme in their approach toward meat-eating people.
And as a vegan myself, I choose to be vegan and live by my philosophy that it is the right thing for me in my life.
But I think it is correct to let others decide what they want to eat.

I just watched a YouTube discussion between vegans and meat-eaters, and was shocked how extreme the vegans were, whereas the meat-eaters said time and time again, "I respect your choice to be a vegan" but non of the vegans said anything about the choice the meat-eaters has, except for "You have a choice to not eat meat"

Is it common for the vegan community to be very one-sided in its way of thinking?

This OP is not meant to step on anyone, vegans or meat-eaters. It is only a question that I have been thinking of.

 

[silva]

As a nomadic person, I do speak with people from most of the world, and I have found that some vegans are very extreme in their approach toward meat-eating people.
And as a vegan myself, I choose to be vegan and live by my philosophy that it is the right thing for me in my life.
But I think it is correct to let others decide what they want to eat.

I just watched a YouTube discussion between vegans and meat-eaters, and was shocked how extreme the vegans were, whereas the meat-eaters said time and time again, "I respect your choice to be a vegan" but non of the vegans said anything about the choice the meat-eaters has, except for "You have a choice to not eat meat"

Is it common for the vegan community to be very one-sided in its way of thinking?

This OP is not meant to step on anyone, vegans or meat-eaters. It is only a question that I have been thinking of.

People that identify as vegan are as different as any other group. For me, and most everybody in this group, we do our best to live our lives with the least harm.
I do my best to keep vegan, but for me it's all about what I can do and not obsessing over everything. I feel people should do the least harm they need to do. I'm in the US where eating plant based, at least mostly, would be beneficial for everyone.
I do realize for many in this world using animals provide a much needed benefit .
As long as we accept the rich and rampant capitalism this world would be a far better place.
There is no reason for anyone to harm another without need

 

[Vegan Nomad]

People that identify as vegan are as different as any other group. For me, and most everybody in this group, we do our best to live our lives with the least harm.
I do my best to keep vegan, but for me it's all about what I can do and not obsessing over everything. I feel people should do the least harm they need to do. I'm in the US where eating plant based, at least mostly, would be beneficial for everyone.
I do realize for many in this world using animals provide a much needed benefit .
As long as we accept the rich and rampant capitalism this world would be a far better place.
There is no reason for anyone to harm another without need

I agree that capitalism has a big problem with it when it comes to animal welfare, and I would like to see more people become vegetarian or vegan, but in their own time

 

[Lou]

You make a good point.
Let me give you my take on it.

First of all, I don't believe it's one-sided at all. The Carnist culture is pretty intolerant of vegans in general. Vegans are regularly mocked by Carnists. In one study that I cited here in the vegan forum (which I can't find now) vegans are hated. Google "Vegan Hate". Many articles have been written about people hating vegans.

Like @silva, I live and let live but I totally understand why some vegans may appear "extreme". What would. be appropriate behavior if you found yourself in a round table discussion with serial killers?

 

[Vegan Nomad]

You make a good point.
Let me give you my take on it.

First of all, I don't believe it's one-sided at all. The Carnist culture is pretty intolerant of vegans in general. Vegans are regularly mocked by Carnists. In one study that I cited here in the vegan forum (which I can't find now) vegans are hated. Google "Vegan Hate". Many articles have been written about people hating vegans.

Like @silva, I live and let live but I totally understand why some vegans may appear "extreme". What would. be appropriate behavior if you found yourself in a round table discussion with serial killers?

If I sat at a table with serial killers, I would listen to them and their stories, then, of course, I would have some questions for them. But I would not directly say "my way (non-violence) is the only correct way to live. Killing is both wrong and illegal, but we do deal with human beings, even if they are killers.

 

[Graeme M]

As a nomadic person, I do speak with people from most of the world, and I have found that some vegans are very extreme in their approach toward meat-eating people.

Have you met other folk with extreme views? I think we can classify many groups of people as having extreme or very harshly judgmental views of other groups. Examples are everyday folk objecting to vegans/veganism, vegans objecting to everyday folk, left-wing folk hating conservative or right-wing folk, very religious peoples' objections to pro-choice people, black hatred of whites and so on. So have you found something odd or just business as usual for people?

What matters, I think, is why people have these views. Do vegans hold extreme views/opinions for good reasons or are they acting in bad faith? Does that tell us something about them, or their cause?

 

[Vegan Nomad]

Have you met other folk with extreme views? I think we can classify many groups of people as having extreme or very harshly judgmental views of other groups. Examples are everyday folk objecting to vegans/veganism, vegans objecting to everyday folk, left-wing folk hating conservative or right-wing folk, very religious peoples' objections to pro-choice people, black hatred of whites and so on. So have you found something odd or just business as usual for people?

What matters, I think, is why people have these views. Do vegans hold extreme views/opinions for good reasons or are they acting in bad faith? Does that tell us something about them, or their cause?

Yes, I meet people from all walks of life, everything from the person on the street to billionaires, I have met neo-nazi people and I have met Christian monks to Buddhist monks. Some people, especially those with a lot of money, often, but not always, critique Vegan people for being extreme, without realizing they are a bit extreme themselves too.
In a way, we all have both sides within us, the extreme and the "I don't give a....." side of us.

 

[g0rph]

As a nomadic person, I do speak with people from most of the world, and I have found that some vegans are very extreme in their approach toward meat-eating people.
And as a vegan myself, I choose to be vegan and live by my philosophy that it is the right thing for me in my life.
But I think it is correct to let others decide what they want to eat.

I just watched a YouTube discussion between vegans and meat-eaters, and was shocked how extreme the vegans were, whereas the meat-eaters said time and time again, "I respect your choice to be a vegan" but non of the vegans said anything about the choice the meat-eaters has, except for "You have a choice to not eat meat"

Is it common for the vegan community to be very one-sided in its way of thinking?

This OP is not meant to step on anyone, vegans or meat-eaters. It is only a question that I have been thinking of.

I don't have any extreme approach towards carnists in real life. I can't really as I don't know any other vegans.

When it comes to debate it is another thing though.
And the "I respect your choice, why not respect mine" is a very weak response.
The choice essentially comes down to avoiding harm or harming. The two choices are not equally worthy of respect.

Would I "respect" the choice of someone to rape or steal? No. Then why on earth would I respect the choice that leads to suffering?

And I say this as someone that the more extreme vegans would call non-vegan, mainly because of some of my opinions...

 

[Lou]

Would I "respect" the choice of someone to rape or steal? No. Then why on earth would I respect the choice that leads to suffering?

rape or steal?
you are pulling your punches.
how about enslave, mutilate, and murder.
However carnists get very defensive when you use that kind of terminology and then stop listening. If you are vegan and in a discussion with Carnists best to use a different tact.

 

[deadknight]

As a nomadic person, I do speak with people from most of the world, and I have found that some vegans are very extreme in their approach toward meat-eating people.
And as a vegan myself, I choose to be vegan and live by my philosophy that it is the right thing for me in my life.
But I think it is correct to let others decide what they want to eat.

I just watched a YouTube discussion between vegans and meat-eaters, and was shocked how extreme the vegans were, whereas the meat-eaters said time and time again, "I respect your choice to be a vegan" but non of the vegans said anything about the choice the meat-eaters has, except for "You have a choice to not eat meat"

Is it common for the vegan community to be very one-sided in its way of thinking?

This OP is not meant to step on anyone, vegans or meat-eaters. It is only a question that I have been thinking of.

Very good that you think veganism to be the right thing for you in your life - I keep thinking about veganism being the right thing for the animals. It is only a secondary side-effect that it seems to be the right thing personally for me.

I am really, really one-sided. Did not "choose" to be a vegan, so it is not a choice. It is something essential for me, something that I will never argue. This is just an essential thing that can be expected. Veganism is not a potential choice of two alternatives.

I think it is correct to let others decide what they want to eat - but not whom they want to eat.

You are free to decide what to do - more specifically: what to eat - until your decisions do not hurt others' right to life, dignity, safety and other essential things like that. Opting for carnism does violate these rights.

Carnists who say they respect my choice do not make me happier. I just cannot get what their "respect" means. How is it expressed?
They do not respect the animals' right to live so I am not going to compose a psalm in D-minor to show how I appreciate them respecting my choice.

If someone decides to kill - or pay others to kill -, or buys any products of the death-and-theft-and-rape industry, that's something I will never respect. I used to be a vegetarian apologist - later, a vegan apologist - and now I see it was extremely unbrave of me.
Lately, instead of respecting others' choices in my environment, I educate them. This obviously seems to work.

 

[Ahimsa24/7]

I DON'T respect the choice of meat eaters. Not in the slightest.

It's not a victimless choice like vanilla or chocolate, or IPA vs. lager.

If only those who didn't own slaves would have respected the choice of those who did own slaves ... then we'd still have slavery.

 

[Jamie in Chile]

I agree with posts like the above one, at least in theory. In practice, I don't act like that because I have relationships to maintain with family, work colleagues, friends and it just won't work, and people are not open to it. so...

 

[Jamie in Chile]

As a nomadic person, I do speak with people from most of the world, and I have found that some vegans are very extreme in their approach toward meat-eating people.
And as a vegan myself, I choose to be vegan and live by my philosophy that it is the right thing for me in my life.
But I think it is correct to let others decide what they want to eat.

I just watched a YouTube discussion between vegans and meat-eaters, and was shocked how extreme the vegans were, whereas the meat-eaters said time and time again, "I respect your choice to be a vegan" but non of the vegans said anything about the choice the meat-eaters has, except for "You have a choice to not eat meat"

Is it common for the vegan community to be very one-sided in its way of thinking?

This OP is not meant to step on anyone, vegans or meat-eaters. It is only a question that I have been thinking of.

Such vegans are quite common but there are also plenty that are quite different, and just very quietly going on about their own lives without questioning others. In fact, one of the reasons I know this is I've seen loads of such posts on this forum over the years.

 

[fakei]

I DON'T respect the choice of meat eaters. Not in the slightest.

It's not a victimless choice like vanilla or chocolate, or IPA vs. lager.

If only those who didn't own slaves would have respected the choice of those who did own slaves ... then we'd still have slavery.

It has been said that if we knew the right course of action we wouldn't have a choice. It is not clear what an arrogant attitude can achieve, either for the one that displays it or for the one he is trying to communicate with.

It is possible that slavery ended for economic reasons.

 

[Lou]

It is possible that slavery ended for economic reasons.

Some people consider that a factor.

but I don't think it ranks at the top.
Although the civil war helped make slavey illegal in the US, many other countries have outlawed slavery - mostly for moral reasons.

Only the Atlantic slave trade ended. Slavery still exists today. One estimate is that there are 50 million slaves world wide.

 

[fakei]

Some people consider that a factor.

but I don't think it ranks at the top.
Although the civil war helped make slavey illegal in the US, many other countries have outlawed slavery - mostly for moral reasons.

Only the Atlantic slave trade ended. Slavery still exists today. One estimate is that there are 50 million slaves world wide.

I get the impression the main driving force was economic in the more developed countries, or regions, and it was not by chance it coincided with the industrial revolution; this empowered the discontented, in particular since the institution was abhorrent, and in some cases hastened the process and made the suppression of slavery more violent and abrupt.

The same way the driving force behind the plant based movement seems to be economic.

This at the material level, analyzing the spiritual causes behind it would be a different story.

 

[Lou]

I get the impression the main driving force was economic in the more developed countries, or regions, and it was not by chance it coincided with the industrial revolution; this empowered the discontented, in particular since the institution was abhorrent, and in some cases hastened the process and made the suppression of slavery more violent and abrupt.

The same way the driving force behind the plant based movement seems to be economic.

This at the material level, analyzing the spiritual causes behind it would be a different story.

can't disagree.
In both Europe and the US the anti slavery movements origin was with morals.
I think the same could be said for vegan/plant based.

 

[fakei]

can't disagree.
In both Europe and the US the anti slavery movements origin was with morals.
I think the same could be said for vegan/plant based.

Everything humans do is justified with morals including genocide and ethnic cleansing.

Slavery was already immoral at the the beginning of the European expansion, but then the economic pressure was towards slavery. Here in Portugal during the 14th century after the end of the Reconquista the combination of economic growth, plague and dissolution of feudalism led to shortage of rural workers, so slaves were on demand. The economy of the New World based on sugar cane production became an even greater incentive to slavery.

By the 18th and 19th Century the industrial revolution was in course and slaves were not adequate to factories, beet sugar took over and indentured servitude replaced slavery where it was needed.

 

[fakei]

BTW the above is not to endorse or promote a materialistic understanding of reality, I believe the force moving the world we perceive is spiritual.

 

[g0rph]

rape or steal?
you are pulling your punches.
how about enslave, mutilate, and murder.
However carnists get very defensive when you use that kind of terminology and then stop listening. If you are vegan and in a discussion with Carnists best to use a different tact.

I was using the words rape and steal in human terms.
I don't agree with redefining words to fit the actions we take against non-human animals.
Rape - Is forced, non-consensual sexual assault against a human.
Stealing is taking something that belongs to another person.

So, yes, I tend not to use them when discussing what we do to animals.

I saw someone arguing on reddit that we should use murder for animals...but IMO slaughter is a more violent word, and apt.
Murder is unlawfully killing another person...by definition.