Music Jack White says music industry is sexist

[ledboots]

:is not replying right now r/t the nausea:

 

[Amy SF]

Example, Katie Perry was just announced to be the halftime talent for the Super bowl of American football. Nearly all the comments on the sports sites are discussing her breasts.

Apart from her breasts can you suggest one single thing about Katie Perry that anyone would find interesting?

The point she was making was that at least one segment of the American population is apparently more interested in Katy Perry's anatomy than her music. This is called SEXISM. It is a double standard that holds that with men, it's all about the music and with women, it's how they look. The music industry responds to this by marketing women as sexual creatures first and musicians second. It's also why women have trouble working behind the scenes in the music industry; because of the way they are marketed in public, they're not taken seriously as technicians and producers.

 

[flyingsnail]

The point she was making was that at least one segment of the American population is apparently more interested in Katy Perry's anatomy than her music. This is called SEXISM. It is a double standard that holds that with men, it's all about the music and with women, it's how they look.

But women objectify male musicians all the time, the only double standard here seems to be that some male musicians fool themselves into thinking their success is all about their talent while with female musicians its all about their looks. Jack White's sentiment is, if anything, sexist...and self-serving.

 

[Clueless Git]

The music industry responds to this by marketing women as sexual creatures first and musicians second.

Yes. The music industry responds to it's target market.

Sexism in marketing is always a proportional response to how positively/negatively the market itself responds to sexism.

The prevalence of sexism amongst the masses is the cause, NOT the result, of sexism in mass marketing campaigns.

 

[Dedalus]

Perhaps, but has Jack White ever considered how popular his music would be if he was an obese, balding man in his 40's? Jack White seems to be oblivious to the fact that his appearance, and appeal amount women, is likely more related to his success than his abilities as a musician.

Success in the music business requires several seperate factors to fall into place. Luck, timing, connections, marketability and lastly, the strength of the artists material and the artists ability to sell it. How good looking one happens to be falls into the marketability category - but without at least 2 of the other factors, even talented musicians will need to keep their day jobs.

If you are at all familiar with Jack White - and I'm not so certain you are, you would know that White is acutely aware of the way marketing works - and therefore very much in touch with how that plays into selling records. He uses color (get it? Jack White) to create branding appeal.

Red, Black and White - The White Stripes
Black and Yellow - Third Man Records (White's record label.)
Blue - Jack White Solo

Google images on any of the above - it is not subtle image branding - it's bold, almost militant.

If your argument is'Jack White doesn't know what he's talking about anyway because he's oblivious to his own marketing appeal' then I disagree. On the contrary, he uses it well. But color branding is not sexism.

 

[Freesia]

But women objectify male musicians all the time, the only double standard here seems to be that some male musicians fool themselves into thinking their success is all about their talent while with female musicians its all about their looks. Jack White's sentiment is, if anything, sexist...and self-serving.

Um, no? I dont remember ever seeing a male musician gyrating in a music video in a skimpy latex speedo, shaking his butt and bending over because record companies suggest to him that it will be helpful for his image as a musician. For some reason male musicians are encouraged by their companies to just wear what they want as long as it is trendy, and have the focus on the music. Perhaps good looks might play a part in the success for some of them, but it is not exploited to the same extend as with female artists.

 

[Freesia]

I remember when Nelly Furtado released a few songs and then disappeared for a while. When she came back she was gyrating sexily in a tight minidress and all people were saying was how much better she was now than when she was just performing music videos wearing ordinary clothing.

But her music hadnt changed. Hotter? Yes. A better musician? about the same, but according to sexist popular culture, yes.

 

[Envy]

Um, no? I dont remember ever seeing a male musician gyrating in a music video in a skimpy latex speedo, shaking his butt and bending over because record companies suggest to him that it will be helpful for his image as a musician.

Probably not for commercial value, but I watched an old live video with KISS, and the amount of crotch action in that play was no less than what I've ever seen in any modern pop video.

Well, maybe that comes with a genre in where tight leather pants are mandatory rather than voluntary.

 

[Freesia]

But it is done more for rock shock value than to sell records to women salivating over Gene Simmon's crotch and protruding tongue. So, not the same thing.

 

[flyingsnail]

If your argument is'Jack White doesn't know what he's talking about anyway because he's oblivious to his own marketing appeal' then I disagree. On the contrary, he uses it well. But color branding is not sexism.

Jack White has strong appeal with women and it has nothing to do with "color branding". To what degree he has generated or exploited this appeal, one can only guess, but its an obvious factor in his success. Perhaps Jack White's comments on this matter are just an attempt to further his appeal among women.

Um, no? I dont remember ever seeing a male musician gyrating in a music video in a skimpy latex speedo, shaking his butt and bending over because record companies suggest to him that it will be helpful for his image as a musician. For some reason male musicians are encouraged by their companies to just wear what they want as long as it is trendy, and have the focus on the music.

Mate selection for men is more physical than women. My point is that, like female musicians, male musicians will often do a variety of things to appeal to women that have nothing to do with their musical talent. Male musicians aren't wearing skimpy clothing because that is not, in general, what appeals to women......but the vast majority of popular male musicians are attractive. If male musicians were actually selected on their talent, and not their looks, one would expect to find a lot more popular male musicians that are overweight, ugly, etc.

I don't think Justin Bieber's "Boyfriend" is any more dignifying than Katy Perry singing in skimpy clothing. Both are just attempts to appeal to a particular demographic.

I don't know, at times I think society can be oblivious to the ways men get objectified.

 

[Clueless Git]

If your argument is'Jack White doesn't know what he's talking about anyway because he's oblivious to his own marketing appeal' then I disagree.

More an observation than an argument, Ded.

That observation being that sexism from the music industry is largely (I'd concede not entirely) a response to demand for sexist stuff from the music industries customer base.

The only counter argument/observation would have to be that the music industries customer base is not predominantly sexist.

If you are at all familiar with Jack White - and I'm not so certain you are, you would know that White is acutely aware of the way marketing works

I have no idea who Jack White is at all, Ded.

I have no doubt that JW is acutely aware of how marketing works though. I'm a marketer myself.

The greatest marketing trick of all is to have your customer base believe it's you that's the problem, NOT them.

A good example of that one in action is the meat industry. The way it keeps the cash rolling in is to keep it's consumers (the true driving force behind animal exploitation?) consciences nice and squeaky clean.

Under no circumstances does any pedlar of filth want it's customers to be prompted to take a good hard look at themselves.

 

[Clueless Git]

But it is done more for rock shock value than to sell records to women salivating over Gene Simmon's crotch and protruding tongue. So, not the same thing.

There's an element of males being turned on by their eyes and females more so by their ears in this.

 

[rainforests1]

I thought rock music is dominated by male listeners. Most of Jack White's fans are male, I would think.

It is a double standard that holds that with men, it's all about the music and with women, it's how they look. The music industry responds to this by marketing women as sexual creatures first and musicians second.

Lady Gaga, Kelly Clarkson, Adele, and Alicia Keys are some of the many females in music that wouldn't be considered sexy, and there is a very long list of male singers throughout music history that would be considered good looking.

 

[Blobbenstein]

some sort of handsomeness is perhaps beneficial to a performer regardless of sexual attraction. If someone looks attractive/handsome etc then that adds to the glamour, and they and their music is taken more seriously generally, maybe.

 

[Dedalus]

Jack White has strong appeal with women and it has nothing to do with "color branding". To what degree he has generated or exploited this appeal, one can only guess, but its an obvious factor in his success. Perhaps Jack White's comments on this matter are just an attempt to further his appeal among women.

I do not question White's personal appeal, it helps - but I don't believe for a second that he got where he is today with just his looks. It's just not that simple. CG can school you further on color branding - it's Marketing 101. When you read 'Coca-Cola' what image comes to mind? See?

If male musicians were actually selected on their talent, and not their looks, one would expect to find a lot more popular male musicians that are overweight, ugly, etc.

There are plenty of overweight, non-GQ material musicians that are successful, selling millions of records. You aren't looking hard enough.

 

[Dedalus]

That observation being that sexism from the music industry is largely (I'd concede not entirely) a response to demand for sexist stuff from the music industries customer base.

The only counter argument/observation would have to be that the music industries customer base is not predominantly sexist.

Right. IE: Those making reference to Katie Perry's breasts on sports commentary forums are *not* buying Katie Perry's records.

A good example of that one in action is the meat industry. The way it keeps the cash rolling in is to keep it's consumers (the true driving force behind animal exploitation?) consciences nice and squeaky clean.

Under no circumstances does any pedlar of filth want it's customers to be prompted to take a good hard look at themselves.

That is a good analogy, CG, which was why I wasn't giving the music industry a pass for marketing specifically to a sexist customer base. Just like I don't give factory farming food corporations a pass for marketing meat to their customer base.

 

[flyingsnail]

I do not question White's personal appeal, it helps - but I don't believe for a second that he got where he is today with just his looks. It's just not that simple. CG can school you further on color branding - it's Marketing 101. When you read 'Coca-Cola' what image comes to mind?

I think I'll skip the schooling from CG and, as I mentioned, my point has nothing to do with "color branding". I didn't suggest that Jack White success was solely based on his looks but rather that, as with women, looks play a big role in success in pop music whether you're male or female.

There are plenty of overweight, non-GQ material musicians that are successful, selling millions of records. You aren't looking hard enough.

There are some, but there are also some unattractive and successful female musicians as well. But one has to consider that the standard of attractiveness is different for men and women, men are more concerned with physical appearance where as women are more concerned with displays of dominance (among other differences). The issue shouldn't be isolated to looks, the general question is whether women's success in pop music depends more on factors unrelated to their musical talent than men. I see no reason to believe that is the case.

 

[Freesia]

There's an element of males being turned on by their eyes and females more so by their ears in this.

It is music though. I dont listen to it to be turned on at all. I listen to it because it entertains, soothes, inspires.

 

[Freesia]

Lady Gaga, Kelly Clarkson, Adele, and Alicia Keys are some of the many females in music that wouldn't be considered sexy.

A strange list you put together, they are all conventionally pretty, and sexy to many- a number of men like women who are plump as well as the men who like women who are slender.

 

[Freesia]

I don't know, at times I think society can be oblivious to the ways men get objectified.

I would reply to your post but it is ridiculous and I have a headache.