US How Did The US Become Obsessed-Protein?

[KLS52]

I glanced back and protein-wise I did 65 grams yesterday and 62 grams Sunday. The four days prior I only managed 42-45. I'm finding I do better when I eat the mock meats like soy curls, seitan and Tofurky products.

 

[KLS52]

With regard to B12, I find it odd that the only b12 supplementation I do is using nutritional yeast and I've never been deficient. I have to ask but I get my levels checked at my yearly wellness exam.

 

[Lou]

With regard to B12, I find it odd that the only b12 supplementation I do is using nutritional yeast and I've never been deficient. I have to ask but I get my levels checked at my yearly wellness exam.

I don't think I have ever had my B12 levels checked. it's not part of the typical panel my doctor can order. Plus I've heard that the B12 test isn't that accurate.

 

[silva]

I don't think I have ever had my B12 levels checked. it's not part of the typical panel my doctor can order. Plus I've heard that the B12 test isn't that accurate.

The blood test isn't accurate. Dr Greger relies on MMA tests, which are done from urine--

Friday Favorites: How to Test for Functional Vitamin B12 Deficiency | NutritionFacts.org. Measuring methylmalonic acid levels or homocysteine directly are a more accurate reflection of vitamin B12 functional status. Methylmalonic acid can be a simple urine test; you’re looking for less than a value of 4 (micrograms per milligram of creatinine). “Elevated MMA is a specific marker of vitamin B12 deficiency while homocysteine rises in [the context of] both vitamin B12 and folate deficiencies”; and so, metabolic B12 deficiency is defined by an elevation in MMA levels or by elevation of homocysteine in people getting enough folate. Even without eating beans and greens, which are packed with folate, folic acid is added to the flour supply by law; and so, high homocysteine levels these days may be mostly a B12 problem. Ideally, you’re looking for a homocysteine level in your blood down in the single digits.

 

[Lou]

@KLS52, just a suggestion. Maybe on your "bad days' you have some kind of bonus protein.
My go-to is the chocolate p-b banana shake.
another option is Hiyayakko, a raw tofu Japanese appetizer.

 

[KLS52]

@KLS52, just a suggestion. Maybe on your "bad days' you have some kind of bonus protein.
My go-to is the chocolate p-b banana shake.
another option is Hiyayakko, a raw tofu Japanese appetizer.

Thanks Lou...my obsession is always calories...trying to stay just under my calories expended. My daily protein already includes a ripple protein shake...20 grams of protein and 200 calories.

I know I seem calorie obsessed but the issue is, I'm moving as much as I can with my limitations, and I only average (burning)1600-1800 calories a day. But if I just say the heck with it, I gain weight, albeit slowly, but I can't just keep having the scale go up and up. I'm at a healthy weight now. I really need to try and maintain it.

I just need to be accountable for what I put in my mouth. I'm snack obsessed. Lol. I laugh but it's really true. I cannot substitute snacks for protein just because I don't want to go over my calories. I think that is the bottom line. I am the only one who can control that.

 

[silva]

With regard to B12, I find it odd that the only b12 supplementation I do is using nutritional yeast and I've never been deficient. I have to ask but I get my levels checked at my yearly wellness exam.

Do you get the blood test, or urine?
Did you say you have the MTHR genetic thing? I just looked up fortified nooch-they use cyanocobalimin-not sure what that means for that, as it's not methalized. I don't really have any understaning of MTHR

 

[Lou]

Silk used to add carageenan but they stopped.
A lot of protein bars and stuff like that use soy isolates.

A long time ago I has a subscription to Men's health. And they had an article about how bad soy was. One of their main points was that it caused man boobs. they even had a picture. Turns out it was a guy with an eating disorder who was not only obese but drank something like a gallon of soy milk a day.

I cancelled my subscription and then I also started doing a lot of my own research.

and I used to sometimes have as much as 5 servings a day.

Speaking of soy.
this arrived in my NewsFeeder today

This Ingredient Has Earned A Bad Reputation — And Doctors Say It's Undeserved

This ingredient has been rumored to cause cancer and even grow “man boobs.”

www.huffpost.com

 

[LoreD]

Speaking of soy.
this arrived in my NewsFeeder today

This Ingredient Has Earned A Bad Reputation — And Doctors Say It's Undeserved

This ingredient has been rumored to cause cancer and even grow “man boobs.”

www.huffpost.com

I simply look at the group of people who have been drinking soymilk, and eating soy products for centuries. Some of the healthiest and fittest people in the world. And no man boobs. The only man boobs I've seen are on those carnivore body builders.

 

[KLS52]

Do you get the blood test, or urine?
Did you say you have the MTHR genetic thing? I just looked up fortified nooch-they use cyanocobalimin-not sure what that means for that, as it's not methalized. I don't really have any understaning of MTHR

I don't understand it either. Yes, I have the mutation. I got tested because my sister had it. I get the blood test. Is a urine test better?

I remember you mentioning about using the unfortified B12 but I always use the fortified. I don't know if I'm doing good or bad by doing that.

 

[silva]

I don't understand it either. Yes, I have the mutation. I got tested because my sister had it. I get the blood test. Is a urine test better?

I remember you mentioning about using the unfortified B12 but I always use the fortified. I don't know if I'm doing good or bad by doing that.

Dr Greger has called the blood test unreliable. I wondered about what the nooch was fortified with and remembered you had that genetic thing. I don't quite understand, but isn't it that you need b12 and/or folate methylized? Could be you're not getting as much b12 from nooch as you think?

Friday Favorites: How to Test for Functional Vitamin B12 Deficiency | NutritionFacts.org

Many doctors mistakenly rely on serum B12 levels in the blood to test for vitamin B12 deficiency.

nutritionfacts.org

This is from AI. I know I've read Gregers response that with the MTHFR mutation he advises methylcobalamin, instead of his usual cyano, but can't find it--
The best B12 for MTHFR mutations is generally methylcobalamin or hydroxocobalamin because they are bioactive forms that the body can use directly without a conversion process that may be impaired by MTHFR mutations. Methylcobalamin is a popular choice due to its bioavailability, while hydroxocobalamin is another effective, readily usable form. Avoid cyanocobalamin, as it's an inactive form that requires an extra conversion step and contains cyanide, making it less ideal for MTHFR support.

 

[Tom L.]

@silva Thank you for your posts about how some people can't properly metabolize the cyanocobalamin form of vitamin B-12. I was somewhat aware of the different forms, but didn't know some people could not use cyanocobalamin (which is the form I've been using for two decades or more). I often see "Vitamin B-12" listed as a nutrient on various foods, but I don't think it specifies which kind. I remember once mentioning my vegan diet to my doctor, and asking him specifically about a possible B-12 deficiency; he told me he knew what to check for.

One of the links you posted above also mentions folate. If that's what I think it is, I'm sure I'm not low on that. I eat almost as much spinach as Popeye (I exaggerate only slightly), and generally love leafy dark green vegetables- I always have.

ETA: I just googled "folate", and I was correct: most of my favorite foods are rich in it. If there were such a thing as folate poisoning, I would have expired from it quite some time ago. Again, I exaggerate only slightly. No- scratch that- it's no exaggeration.

 

[Emma JC]

@silva Thank you for your posts about how some people can't properly metabolize the cyanocobalamin form of vitamin B-12. I was somewhat aware of the different forms, but didn't know some people could not use cyanocobalamin (which is the form I've been using for two decades or more). I often see "Vitamin B-12" listed as a nutrient on various foods, but I don't think it specifies which kind. I remember once mentioning my vegan diet to my doctor, and asking him specifically about a possible B-12 deficiency; he told me he knew what to check for.

One of the links you posted above also mentions folate. If that's what I think it is, I'm sure I'm not low on that. I eat almost as much spinach as Popeye (I exaggerate only slightly), and generally love leafy dark green vegetables- I always have.

ETA: I just googled "folate", and I was correct: most of my favorite foods are rich in it. If there were such a thing as folate poisoning, I would have expired from it quite some time ago. Again, I exaggerate only slightly. No- scratch that- it's no exaggeration.

please do extensive research before abandoning cyanocobalamin as it is what I take also and I have researched it and feel very secure with my choice

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[silva]

@silva Thank you for your posts about how some people can't properly metabolize the cyanocobalamin form of vitamin B-12. I was somewhat aware of the different forms, but didn't know some people could not use cyanocobalamin (which is the form I've been using for two decades or more). I often see "Vitamin B-12" listed as a nutrient on various foods, but I don't think it specifies which kind. I remember once mentioning my vegan diet to my doctor, and asking him specifically about a possible B-12 deficiency; he told me he knew what to check for.

One of the links you posted above also mentions folate. If that's what I think it is, I'm sure I'm not low on that. I eat almost as much spinach as Popeye (I exaggerate only slightly), and generally love leafy dark green vegetables- I always have.

ETA: I just googled "folate", and I was correct: most of my favorite foods are rich in it. If there were such a thing as folate poisoning, I would have expired from it quite some time ago. Again, I exaggerate only slightly. No- scratch that- it's no exaggeration.

Emma's right about cyanocobalimin. Dr Greger specifically advises that form as it is stable. Other forms can degrade so the strength on the package isn't necessarily whats it contains. He isn't concerned about the small amount of cyanide (except I think in kidney patients?)
It's stable for years. I keep a second bottle in the fridge

 

[Tom L.]

@Emma JC @silva Thank you both for the information! I wasn't thinking about not taking the B-12 supplement any more- I know I need it. The small amount of cyanide it might have isn't nearly enough to do me harm. Also, I keep most of the tablets in the refrigerator. I have a few in a smaller container in the cupboard; those are the ones I nibble on every day.

I'm not worried about an overdose; I just don't see the point of taking a whole tablet with about 80 times the RDA of anything. I figured the manufacturers just find it easier to make an overdose-size tablet if it's going to have B-12 and nothing else. Multivitamin tablets don't have nearly that much B-12- just 100% or so of the RDA. As it is, I think I wind up taking about 10 times the RDA of B-12 each day.

 

[Lou]

@Emma JC @silva Thank you both for the information! I wasn't thinking about not taking the B-12 supplement any more- I know I need it. The small amount of cyanide it might have isn't nearly enough to do me harm. Also, I keep most of the tablets in the refrigerator. I have a few in a smaller container in the cupboard; those are the ones I nibble on every day.

I'm not worried about an overdose; I just don't see the point of taking a whole tablet with about 80 times the RDA of anything. I figured the manufacturers just find it easier to make an overdose-size tablet if it's going to have B-12 and nothing else. Multivitamin tablets don't have nearly that much B-12- just 100% or so of the RDA. As it is, I think I wind up taking about 10 times the RDA of B-12 each day.

The rationalization for taking large doses of B12 has to do with how little of it gets absorbed.
Perhaps @silva can point you to the right article where the math is done for us. I know both her and I have posted it to the forum before.
In a nutshell, the first 30% of the RDA per meal is totally absorbed. after that only 1% gets absorbed. So you can take small doses of 30% three times a day. Or you can take one large dose once a day. or even a larger dose once a week.
Dr Gregar haș an article where he explains all this.

 

[Tom L.]

@Lou That sounds familiar, although I don't remember exactly when or where you and @sliva posted it. I lean toward smaller doses more often.

 

[Emma JC]

Thank you for your posts about how some people can't properly metabolize the cyanocobalamin form of vitamin B-12. I was somewhat aware of the different forms, but didn't know some people could not use cyanocobalamin (which is the form I've been using for two decades or more). I often see "Vitamin B-12" listed as a nutrient on various foods, but I don't think it specifies which kind. I remember once mentioning my vegan diet to my doctor, and asking him specifically about a possible B-12 deficiency; he told me he knew what to check for.

quick follow up - Dr Greger's last two videos were, once again, about B12 - and he is quite clear that Cyanocobalamin is the best for most people - cool timing

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[Emma JC]

speaking of protein - Derek Simnett did a "price per gram" for protein video yesterday and it was very comprehensive and well worth watching

spoiler alert - the cheapest for the most amount was split red lentils

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[silva]

@Lou & @tom & @KLS52

From Supplementing Vitamin B12 | NutritionFacts.org

For adults under age 65, the easiest way to get B12 is to take at least one 2,000 mcg supplement each week or a daily dose of 50 mcg. Note that these doses are specific to cyanocobalamin, the preferred supplemental form of vitamin B12, as there is insufficient evidence to support the efficacy of the other forms, like methylcobalamin.

As we age, our ability to absorb vitamin B12 may decline. For those over 65, the supplementation should probably be increased up to 1,000 mcg of cyanocobalamin each day.

Instead of taking B12 supplements, it is possible to get sufficient amounts from B12-fortified foods, but we would have to eat three servings a day of foods each providing at least 85 percent of the Daily Value (on the Nutrition Facts label), with each serving eaten at least four to six hours after the last (the target is 2 mcg three times a day). For B12-fortified nutritional yeast, for example, two teaspoons three times a day may suffice. For most of us, though, it would probably be cheaper and more convenient to just take a supplement.