US Guns in the U.S.

[Mischief]

I'm feeling bullied too.

 

[Andy_T]

You know what to do....

removed, was insensitive.

 

[Spang]

Is it okay to mock other groups of people, or just Libertarians?

 

[ledboots]

You know what to do....

Spoiler

Another cartoon.

 

[Spang]

Also, House Democrats are currently staging a sit-in for bad gun control legislation. Speaker Ryan had the cameras in the House Chamber turned off so the people can't watch, but he must have forgotten that it's 2016.

 

[Calliegirl]

I thought we were all Democrats here (we all seem to support either Bernie or Hillary, both Democrats) with a Republican making a rare appearance every so often.

 

[ledboots]

I thought we were all Democrats here (we all seem to support either Bernie or Hillary, both Democrats) with a Republican making a rare appearance every so often.

The people who aren't Democrats generally don't post their thoughts here on political matters. When we do, we realize once again that it was a mistake.

 

[FortyTwo]

:Feeling bullied, moves on:

You feel bullied, I feel like I could be targeted at any moment for being myself in public because someone decided that I didn't deserve to live.

If someone says they don't feel like the things that could prevent this scenario shouldn't be taken seriously as solutions, directly or indirectly, I'm going to fight it. If I find the argument absurd, then I'll respond to it in a way that I feel points out how absurd it is.

I don't feel the need to water down or go soft with my responses, in this discussion of all discussions.

If you feel the need to make this discussion about you feeling bullied, over something that wasn't even a personal attack (and... like, I've been pretty rude to people before. I've accepted punishments from moderators and administrators that I felt were totally fair because what I said could have been interpreted very personally. This isn't one of those times) then I have to question your investment. How much do you actually care about this? And if you don't really care that much about potential life-saving measures, then why do you want to tangle up actual discussion?

That being said, all opinions and everything else put aside - discussions like this can be incredibly emotionally exhausting. If you need to take a break from debating or arguing or whatever you want to call this, you should absolutely allow yourself that.

 

[FortyTwo]

Is it okay to mock other groups of people, or just Libertarians?

I will happily and openly mock Libertarianism for being ridiculous and dangerous.

Ayn Rand was a selfish, racist woman who worshiped billionaires and wrote terrible science fiction. A kind of mirror L. Ron Hubbard, but less overtly awful and with a less interesting life. Modern Libertarianism, as twentieth century Libertarianism, is a goddamn mess of a political movement that can't decide what it is and is primarily supported by twenty-something white men who think Fight Club is edgy in 2016. The only enjoyable Libertarian is Ron Swanson, who is a fictional character and isn't even an exaggeration of the movement.

 

[Freesia]

Yeah, I am all on board with the idea of being against "big government" (governments can be evil forces at times, and community is where I think it should be at), which is how libertarianism is probably supposed to be,

but the reality is a lot of libertarians believe that wealthy people should be favoured and the poor should fend for themselves...

tbh Ledboots you never struck me as a Libertarian as you actually care about people around you, unlike Ayn Rand - and other Libertarians I have encountered, you are nothing like them, perhaps you are conservative but not libertarian... that is my opinion anyway.

 

[Calliegirl]

The people who aren't Democrats generally don't post their thoughts here on political matters. When we do, we realize once again that it was a mistake.

Unfortunately my post didn't quite convey what I meant, most of my attention is on a sick dog.

I was trying to say, I wasn't singling out anyone here, just ideas I thought were dangerous or extreme.
Most people do need to be babysat and given guidelines (laws) and consequences (jail) on the correct way to act in public, and towards other people and property, otherwise they would run amuck. Whether that's telling them they can't have automatic weapons or that they have to drive a certain speed limit, I'd rather do what's in the interest of safety to everyone, rather than every person for themselves.

 

[FortyTwo]

It is difficult for me to be nice to people with professed conservative beliefs. Conservatism is positioned directly against the slope of progress. It's the reason the slope is inclined as heavily as it is.

Conservatism just makes it harder for people in bad positions in society to advance. People regularly suffer or die due to this mindset obstructing justice and slowing progress - people who wouldn't have suffered or died otherwise. Try as I might, I can't see how that could ever align with an external appearance of caring about others, unless those feelings are a performance. If those feelings are genuine then developing that split between ideology and emotions must take a lot of fooling oneself.

 

[Freesia]

Forty-Two, I dont really find America any more "horrifying" than New Zealand- there is just a lot more weapons there... that is the biggest problem. But I guess I am more concerned about the American government than the populace. Like looking at a few examples...

Here is a woman who did not want to give her disabled daughter antispsychotics because they were making the girls behaviour worse... but the state told her she had to keep administering them... then the state came to her door when she exercised her right not to give her daughter something which was making her feel a lot worse.

Here is the story about an innocent woman who was pulled over by the police and then it just got worse and worse from that point on.

Woman Says She Endured 8 Days In Psych Ward Because Cops Didn't Believe BMW Was Hers

There are more examples I could come up with, but this is why I think every country, not America- we have more to fear from our governments than our citizens.

 

[Freesia]

If you think I am posting a lot of examples about America, I can counter with some things about NZ... did you know that our government harasses cancer patients who ar on welfare, trying to get them to look for work, even harassing them in hospital?

Over the last few weeks the media has become aware of 2 children with cancer who were homeless... there are also people with cancer and all sorts of illnesses and people who are blind, living on the streets of Auckland. Auckland is said to have 11,000 homeless people.

 

[Freesia]

Our government have recently made it harder to qualify for surgery, making people be in more pain to qualify, so you basically have to be in agony to get a back operation or hip replacement...

Also a number of pensioners in NZ, struggling on a pension, are afraid to heat their homes in the winter because they dont have the money, so they stay in bed all day... luckily this winter we are having a warmer one.

 

[Spang]

Ayn Rand was a selfish, racist woman who worshiped billionaires and wrote terrible science fiction.

Ayn Rand was an awful person and should be criticized when necessary.

I will happily and openly mock Libertarianism for being ridiculous and dangerous.

There are silly and dangerous ideas all over the political spectrum. I think the idea of supporting any and all gun control legislation, no matter how ineffective it will be at curbing gun violence, and no matter how disproportionately it will affect communities of color, is both silly and dangerous.

 

[FortyTwo]

There are silly and dangerous ideas all over the political spectrum. I think the idea of supporting any and all gun control legislation, no matter how ineffective it will be at curbing gun violence, and no matter how disproportionately it will affect communities of color, is both silly and dangerous.

That's fair. I'm definitely going to be paying attention to proposed legislation, not just blindly supporting it.

The single thing I want to make clear, in all of this, is that we need to be doing something about this. That this is a real, huge problem, and that it can only be solved, in any meaningful way, by controlling the sale of firearms. How this plays out is definitely a matter of discussion. You're spot-on there. But that it should play out is, to me, common sense, and anyone trying to stop it from playing out is directly contributing to the continuation of mass shootings in this country.

 

[FortyTwo]

@Freesia - I hear you. I don't have the energy right now to respond to everything you said individually (it's 3 in the morning here and I have things to do tomorrow) but I definitely get what you are saying.

 

[Moll Flanders]

Most people do need to be babysat and given guidelines (laws) and consequences (jail) on the correct way to act in public, and towards other people and property, otherwise they would run amuck. Whether that's telling them they can't have automatic weapons or that they have to drive a certain speed limit, I'd rather do what's in the interest of safety to everyone, rather than every person for themselves.

Yes, UK people often complain about having what they see as a nanny state and I think it can lead to some people being infantilized, but clearly you need to have laws to protect the safety of everyone. I don't drive but whenever I'm in a taxi I am astounded by how dangerous and reckless some drivers on the road are.

 

[ledboots]

Unfortunately my post didn't quite convey what I meant, most of my attention is on a sick dog.

I was trying to say, I wasn't singling out anyone here, just ideas I thought were dangerous or extreme.
Most people do need to be babysat and given guidelines (laws) and consequences (jail) on the correct way to act in public, and towards other people and property, otherwise they would run amuck. Whether that's telling them they can't have automatic weapons or that they have to drive a certain speed limit, I'd rather do what's in the interest of safety to everyone, rather than every person for themselves.

All automatic weapons are already illegal in the US and have been for decades. So called Assault Rifles are not automatic, they just look scary.