Animal Rights Domesticated Animals: What Are The Options?

[Lord Snot]

We have created a big problem by domesticating certain species. They are now largely reliant on human care, and even strays are at the mercy of the humans who see them or capture them. Millions and millions of them are kept in sub-standard conditions - a PDSA study found that, for example in the UK:

- 62% of dog owners leave their dogs alone for 5+ hours each weekday
- 17% of cats are not even registered with a vet
- 1.1 million rabbits live alone, without a companion

And those are the ones whose owners at least TRY to look after them. I don't have any stats for the numbers that are neglected or deliberately abused.

Many of these animals also eat a meat-based diet, contributing to the farming and enslavement of millions of other domesticated animals. Most pet food, if I understand it correctly, is made up of the off-cuts of meat or the pieces that are not too palatable for humans, but whether it can be considered a by-product of meat production for humans is debateable. Then there are non-domesticates like reptiles attached to industries where rodents and rabbits are bred and killed for the sole purpose of feeding pets.

The third largest problem is that rescues are overloaded with unwanted companion animals, either ones who had a home and then were abandoned (common in these times when people struggle financially) or ones who were bred carelessly and don't have homes to go to. There are an estimated 33,000 rabbits available for adoption in the UK and more people breeding them all the time.

Obviously, if people didn't keep pets/companion animals, these problems would largely disappear. You can't abuse an animal you don't have control over, and we wouldn't need to slaughter others to feed them. But what are our options?

1. Continue as we are.
2. Release all companion animals into the wild and let them fend for themselves.
3. Stop breeding them and let the species die out.
4. Stricter controls on breeding and pet care, making it more difficult to mistreat animals.

Discuss!

 

[TreeHugger]

Definitely stricter controls on breeding. If I see one more idiot from round here buy a puppy staff from a dodgy breeder when they know nothing about dog care and how much hard work it is, when our local rescue center is rammed with staffs, I will go mad.

 

[Lord Snot]

Definitely stricter controls on breeding. If I see one more idiot from round here buy a puppy staff from a dodgy breeder when they know nothing about dog care and how much hard work it is, when our local rescue center is rammed with staffs, I will go mad.

Do you think breeding is fundamentally okay, if it's responsible?

I saw this come up on a discussion on a rescue centre's website recently. The rescue owner commented that "breeding is necessary to keep bloodlines and breed standards intact" and I strongly, strongly disagreed. Breed standards and bloodlines are the reasons that pedigrees suffer from such a myriad of inherited health problems, and they are STILL being bred for appearance over health.

I hate the idea of not being able to have a companion animal. It brings me so much joy and love. I also think I bring joy to that animal, but it's still a selfish relationship on my part. I do think the world would have much less suffering in it if we didn't have companion animals at all.

I also don't think there is any such thing as "responsible" breeding when there are so many thousands of pets already in existence, waiting for homes.

 

[RabbitLuvr]

I would definitely like to see stricter breeding laws, at the very least. As much as I love having companion rabbits, I would love it even more if there were no domesticated rabbits.

An additional problem with rabbits, at least in the US, is they have a sort of dual status, as pets and also as a food animal. They are classified as "poultry" here, and very often are not covered by even the most rudimentary protections that dogs and cats get. They are also (incorrectly) considered rodents.

I am Facebook friends with someone who is actively working to try to get the poultry classification removed. I believe she has already submitted something to the USDA, and continues to fight for rabbits to be covered by the same laws that protect dogs and cats.

 

[Lord Snot]

That's awful RabbitLuvr. I'm pretty sure they are included here under the Animal Welfare Act 2006 which says companion animals must be given the five freedoms. Rabbit is not a very popular food here, I think most of it is imported, but I imagine there are separate laws governing meat rabbits.

Harry is a meat breed, I've had to stop googling for information about his weight, body condition etc. because loads of sites about breeding meat rabbits come up and it makes me so sad

Do you have any links to ways we can help your friend with her campaign?

 

[AeryFairy]

We definitely can't continue as we are, because it obviously doesn't work. Too many unwanted animals, not enough education. We also can't release all companion animals into the wild - they'd never survive, it would be totally irresponsible.

I'd like to see a ban on breeding for 'status'. Purebreeds, selective breeding... especially in cases where it causes physical problems for the animals. I'd also like to see a ban on selling animals; actually, I think if we were no longer allowed to sell animals, we'd see a fairly rapid decline in breeding.

As for strict regulations on pet care, I'd like to see some sort of testing put in place for all animals. When I adopted Ivy, our home was checked out, and we were quizzed on our knowledge of pet care. It was obvious we knew enough and cared enough to take proper care of her, and the environment was suitable. These kind of checks don't happen when people buy animals, and I really think they should be necessary.

 

[Lord Snot]

We definitely can't continue as we are, because it obviously doesn't work. Too many unwanted animals, not enough education. We also can't release all companion animals into the wild - they'd never survive, it would be totally irresponsible.

I'd like to see a ban on breeding for 'status'. Purebreeds, selective breeding... especially in cases where it causes physical problems for the animals. I'd also like to see a ban on selling animals; actually, I think if we were no longer allowed to sell animals, we'd see a fairly rapid decline in breeding.

As for strict regulations on pet care, I'd like to see some sort of testing put in place for all animals. When I adopted Ivy, our home was checked out, and we were quizzed on our knowledge of pet care. It was obvious we knew enough and cared enough to take proper care of her, and the environment was suitable. These kind of checks don't happen when people buy animals, and I really think they should be necessary.

When I adopted Harry, the only question they asked me (Pets at Home) was "How much do you want to donate?" which was ZERO. They didn't ask me anything at all. They didn't ask if I knew how to look after a rabbit, if I had a hutch, if I was going to feed him to my pet python. Zilch. Of course they are an unscrupulous pet shop but I know that rescues are using their Adoption Centre in-store to put surplus animals, which can then be bought by anyone with no questions asked.

On the other hand, some rescues can be too strict with their requirements. One of my friends wanted to adopt another dog, but none of the centres she contacted would let her. They said it was because she lived in a tower block at the time and they weren't sure the dogs would get enough exercise, but I wonder if it was because she seems a bit rough (has a very Sahf-Lundun accent) or because she had two small boys, 5 and 7. It's not like a dog in a house gets any more exercise if the owner can't be bothered to take him out. She is a great pet owner, loves all her animals and they do get what they need. In the end, she went to a breeder and bought a puppy. I couldn't really blame her.

The lady I am adopting Jessica from runs her rescue single-handedly from home. She is about 40 miles away and understandably doesn't want to spend the petrol to do a homecheck, so she asked me for photos of my hutch and of Harry and we spoke for some time on facebook about rabbit care and what I was doing for Harry. That seems a good compromise.

 

[Muggle]

I'm all for licenses for owning a pet. The short-term consequences of introducing them aren't brilliant but in the long-term it would help so much.

I also want them to change the penalties for animal cruelty. At the moment, the maximum are up to 51 weeks in jail, up to £50,000 fine and a ban on owning animals, or just the species for a set amount of time or maybe a lifetime ban.
It's disgusting. It needs to be a lot harsher.

The government and the RSPCA trumps around on the Animal Welfare Act 2006 like it some great achievement and they should all get gold stars for it. It's a pile of ****.
According to the RSPCA and the law the following is perfectly acceptable animal welfare and is not cruel at all.
If you want to leave a dog in a crate/cage, you just have to make sure that they can stand up and turn around in it. It doesn't need to be any bigger, space for them to walk around in isn't needed according to the RSPCA. They have to have access to clean water at all times. Now, how long do you think you can crate a dog for? 5 hours? 10 hours? 12 hours? Correct answer is 23 hours and 59 minutes. You only have to attend to the dog once every 24 hours to give it food. You don't even need to bother getting them out of the crate.

And we're supposed to be the country with the best animal welfare laws. **** that.

 

[RabbitLuvr]

That's awful RabbitLuvr. I'm pretty sure they are included here under the Animal Welfare Act 2006 which says companion animals must be given the five freedoms. Rabbit is not a very popular food here, I think most of it is imported, but I imagine there are separate laws governing meat rabbits.

Harry is a meat breed, I've had to stop googling for information about his weight, body condition etc. because loads of sites about breeding meat rabbits come up and it makes me so sad

Do you have any links to ways we can help your friend with her campaign?

I think the Rabbit Welfare Association Fund does some good work in the UK, as far as education?

Rabbit was not a popular food here until the recent "locavore" movement, and when it got trendy to grow your own food. Some people who didn't want to give up meat, but who were unable to raise larger animals got rabbits to use for meat. It was then kind of pushed as a gourmet thing. Before that, rabbit was seen as a lower-class cheap meat.

Amelia is also a meat breed.

I will see if there is a way to help with the campaign to reclassify rabbits. She also runs a very popular program called Toys For Hops, where she has partnered with a rabbit-focused online store to send small toys to rabbits in shelters and rescues at Christmas. Last year may have been the first year for it, and she was able to send out 2000 toys. She also runs a small sanctuary for less-adoptable rabbits. (Disabled, behaviour issues, etc.)

 

[Lord Snot]

I've never heard of the Rabbit Welfare Association fund. Unfortunately the RSPCA is often seen as the authority on animal welfare and it's the first and only place most people think of when they're looking to donate or help animals. Most other national places are well below the radar, and local ones barely get a chance.

I would love to participate in something like that! Like sending a shoebox of toys, blankets etc. to a rescue, the way people send boxes to soldiers or to orphanages abroad.

 

[TreeHugger]

Do you think breeding is fundamentally okay, if it's responsible?

I saw this come up on a discussion on a rescue centre's website recently. The rescue owner commented that "breeding is necessary to keep bloodlines and breed standards intact" and I strongly, strongly disagreed. Breed standards and bloodlines are the reasons that pedigrees suffer from such a myriad of inherited health problems, and they are STILL being bred for appearance over health.

I hate the idea of not being able to have a companion animal. It brings me so much joy and love. I also think I bring joy to that animal, but it's still a selfish relationship on my part. I do think the world would have much less suffering in it if we didn't have companion animals at all.

I also don't think there is any such thing as "responsible" breeding when there are so many thousands of pets already in existence, waiting for homes.

I'm never exactly sure how I feel when this convo comes up. I don't think I know enough about it (statistics and consequences and such) to say what should and shouldn't be done.

I like the idea of licenses for animals. Certainly licenses to breed animals if people should be allowed at all. To get a license your living situation etc. should be evaluated and the license should have to be renewed periodically and absolutely no live animals to be sold in shops whatsoever. Not sure how this would be enforced though?

On a whole our countries view on animals needs to change, people need to see them as individuals, not commodities, then things like better law enforcement for cruelty and living conditions would improve and people would adopt rather that buy etc.

I'm all for licenses for owning a pet. The short-term consequences of introducing them aren't brilliant but in the long-term it would help so much.

I also want them to change the penalties for animal cruelty. At the moment, the maximum are up to 51 weeks in jail, up to £50,000 fine and a ban on owning animals, or just the species for a set amount of time or maybe a lifetime ban.
It's disgusting. It needs to be a lot harsher.

The government and the RSPCA trumps around on the Animal Welfare Act 2006 like it some great achievement and they should all get gold stars for it. It's a pile of ****.
According to the RSPCA and the law the following is perfectly acceptable animal welfare and is not cruel at all.
If you want to leave a dog in a crate/cage, you just have to make sure that they can stand up and turn around in it. It doesn't need to be any bigger, space for them to walk around in isn't needed according to the RSPCA. They have to have access to clean water at all times. Now, how long do you think you can crate a dog for? 5 hours? 10 hours? 12 hours? Correct answer is 23 hours and 59 minutes. You only have to attend to the dog once every 24 hours to give it food. You don't even need to bother getting them out of the crate.

And we're supposed to be the country with the best animal welfare laws. **** that.

What a complete joke

 

[Muggle]

I've never heard of the Rabbit Welfare Association fund. Unfortunately the RSPCA is often seen as the authority on animal welfare and it's the first and only place most people think of when they're looking to donate or help animals. Most other national places are well below the radar, and local ones barely get a chance.

Yep. One of the reasons why I love the rescue charity from work so much is because of the lady who runs it. Now, if a stray dog went into a RSPCA centre (back when they accepted stray dogs, they refuse them now) that needed a £6,000 operation to save their life, the RSPCA would have them put to sleep rather than pay for the op because it costs too much money. Luckily, this dog was picked up by our rescue charity. She paid for the operation out of her own money because there wasn't enough funds from the charity money for it. The RSPCA gets millions upon millions of pounds a year. This charity really doesn't get that much. Everything comes from the adoption fees (which some people aren't very happy about paying. Don't know why they think they're entitled to a free dog from a charity), the two charity shops and any donations.

 

[Muggle]

Another thing that I really think needs to be addressed is that people need to have a plan in place if they can't keep their pet. So many people ring up work asking to bring their dogs in and we don't have the space. So some of them threaten to put their dog to sleep if work won't take them.
We've always planned what we would do if we couldn't keep our pets any longer. Obviously, we want to keep them for their whole life but sometimes life happens and things have to change. If the worst case scenario does come up, we know exactly what's going to happen to our dogs and we made sure we'd planned it before we got the dogs.

 

[AeryFairy]

Another thing that I really think needs to be addressed is that people need to have a plan in place if they can't keep their pet. So many people ring up work asking to bring their dogs in and we don't have the space. So some of them threaten to put their dog to sleep if work won't take them.
We've always planned what we would do if we couldn't keep our pets any longer. Obviously, we want to keep them for their whole life but sometimes life happens and things have to change. If the worst case scenario does come up, we know exactly what's going to happen to our dogs and we made sure we'd planned it before we got the dogs.

Companion animals need to be treated in a similar manner to children. If they're being abused, authorities need to intervene and you should lose them. If you're adopting them, checks need to be in place to make sure you aren't gonna eat them or something. And you damn well need to plan for the future (not that people give up/kill their kids in times of financial difficulty... but most people plan for their deaths and so on, asking relatives if they would take them in).

 

[Lord Snot]

Yes, people often see their pets as disposable. You can really see it in these times, when people need to cut back on spending one of the first things to do is often the dog or the cat because they are seen as a luxury expense.

Yep. One of the reasons why I love the rescue charity from work so much is because of the lady who runs it. Now, if a stray dog went into a RSPCA centre (back when they accepted stray dogs, they refuse them now) that needed a £6,000 operation to save their life, the RSPCA would have them put to sleep rather than pay for the op because it costs too much money. Luckily, this dog was picked up by our rescue charity. She paid for the operation out of her own money because there wasn't enough funds from the charity money for it. The RSPCA gets millions upon millions of pounds a year. This charity really doesn't get that much. Everything comes from the adoption fees (which some people aren't very happy about paying. Don't know why they think they're entitled to a free dog from a charity), the two charity shops and any donations.

I had the same experience with them. When I was about 14 I found a stray cat who was having trouble breathing, I called the RSPCA and then said I could bring her in to have her euthanised. I asked why they wouldn't treat her and they said it wouldn't be worth it due to cost. In the end I paid for her treatment out of the money I'd been saving for years!

 

[mlp]

Options 1 and 2 are unethical. My preference would be for option 3, but the likelihood of that happening is roughly equal to the likelihood of humans interacting responsibly and ethically with nonhuman animals - in other words, zilch. So, option number 4 is the only viable one.

 

[Tom L.]

I think I'd go with 4, although there's certainly merit in 3.

One thing I really don't get is breeding for breed preservation. The wild relatives of our domestic cats and rabbits still exist, and if our pet cats and rabbits stopped breeding tomorrow forever, their species would still go on without human care. I think wolves and dogs are close genetically, also. Domestic cattle I would be sorry to see go extinct, because the wild Aurochs from whom they decended no longer exists; I think they were killed off after humans went from hunting wild oxen to keeping tame ones. (Or maybe they were just crowded out by their domesticated descendants).

One thing, though... when we know about all the lousy things people do to animals in their care- from breeding them irresponsibly so that they don't have a home ready for them, to breeding them with traits that are not in the animal's best interests, to outright abuse- it's easy to forget how wonderful a lifve an animal can have when in the care of someone who knows what the animal needs and cares enough to give it to them.

 

[Lord Snot]

One thing, though... when we know about all the lousy things people do to animals in their care- from breeding them irresponsibly so that they don't have a home ready for them, to breeding them with traits that are not in the animal's best interests, to outright abuse- it's easy to forget how wonderful a lifve an animal can have when in the care of someone who knows what the animal needs and cares enough to give it to them.

But is it worth bringing animals into the world who will be abused or neglected in order to give others a happy life? If we stop breeding them they will simply never exist, so nobody has missed out and nobody is at risk of harm.

I don't think it would be a sad thing for cows (or any other domesticated species) to go extinct. They aren't part of a natural food chain and wouldn't have the same disastrous impact on other species as a wild animal species dying out. The only people it would affect would be humans, and it would affect us for the better. Individuals and their lives matter much more to me than a species.

 

[Moll Flanders]

3. Stop breeding them and let the species die out.
4. Stricter controls on breeding and pet care, making it more difficult to mistreat animals.

It is a very unpopular view with most pet owners but I hope 3 will happen one day, but at the moment 4 is the more realistic target.

I saw this come up on a discussion on a rescue centre's website recently. The rescue owner commented that "breeding is necessary to keep bloodlines and breed standards intact" and I strongly, strongly disagreed.

I was reading a very pro-rescue dog forum and even some people involved in rescuing animals on there said they would get a dog from a breeder to get a particular breed.

 

[SummerRain]

Option three.

I think ultimately there's something fundamentally wrong with breeding domestic animals. I think it's wrong to change the way animals are for our benefit, be that to make dairy or pull machinery, or be that companionship.

In reality, that point of view has no effect on my life. I still think adopting pets is a great thing to do, just that it's wrong to breed them. I still think that stricter policies on owning pets is the right thing to do in the here and now, and I think there are a lots of other, immediate, problems that are more important than my idealistic view that ultimately we shouldn't have pets. Including breeding "pure breed" animals with inherent disorders, over population of rescues (and the need for more adopting and more neutering), cruelty to animals, etc.

I like pets, I'd love to adopt a pet and one day I hope to adopt several. But for me that's not an okay reason to breed pets according to our own preferences, to be dependent on us. I liked meat too, but I stopped eating it because what we enjoy and what is right aren't always the same things. But like I said, it's a philosophical position really, whether I pick 3 or 4 doesn't actually make a difference to how I behave, or what action I think should be taken now (realistically).