Class society - how does it work?

[Pickle Juice]

Are you making a distinction between economic class and social class Indian Summer? I have observed that while it is not too difficult to move up or down economically, especially down, it is not so easy to be accepted socially by other classes than that into which you were born and raised. In fact, I have observed that it is almost more difficult to be accepted socially by those on a lower economic scale than oneself, if one has moved downward economically.

 

[Second Summer]

Are you making a distinction between economic class and social class Indian Summer? I have observed that while it is not too difficult to move up or down economically, especially down, it is not so easy to be accepted socially by other classes than that into which you were born and raised. In fact, I have observed that it is almost more difficult to be accepted socially by those on a lower economic scale than oneself, if one has moved downward economically.

I'm aware there is a difference, but I didn't go into that much detail in my OP. (I've found that too much detail in the OP tends to kill the discussion before it even begins!)

 

[mlp]

Are you making a distinction between economic class and social class Indian Summer? I have observed that while it is not too difficult to move up or down economically, especially down, it is not so easy to be accepted socially by other classes than that into which you were born and raised. In fact, I have observed that it is almost more difficult to be accepted socially by those on a lower economic scale than oneself, if one has moved downward economically.

Yeah, I was going to say that here in the U.S. at least, there are a lot of different layers to class - money, and within that, whether it's *old* or *new*; intellectual/artistic; educational, including which particular schools (not necessarily the same as intellectualism); profession, with some fairly distinct subcategories within professions; celebrity. It's as though each layer were transluscent, and the end result of one's placement is all of them layered over each other.

I come from a long line of German peasants. My family here (my stepfather) were farmers with a small farm. Money was in very short supply. My sister was the first person in the entire extended family to attend college, and has two degrees. I was the second, with two post graduate degrees. We have one younger cousin who attended college. No one in the generations after ours has attended college. I'm comfortable with everyone from blue collar to the very wealthy, but I don't think I *belong* to any particular class, never have.

A funny note: In St. Louis, people *place* each other by asking what high school they attended - of course, that only works for native St. Louisans. People are really weird about how they categorize each other.

 

[Spang]

Here's an interesting article about High Heels and Distinction Among Women:

In a previous post I reviewed the history of the high heel. Originally a shoe for high-status men, it was adopted by the lower classes. Elites responded by heightening the heel. The higher the heel, the more impractical the shoe. Eventually the working classes couldn’t keep up with the escalation because they had to, you know, work. Sociologically, this is an example of what Pierre Bourdieu famously called “distinction.” The rich work to preserve certain cultural arenas and products for themselves. This allows them to signify their status; you know, keep them from getting confused with the masses.

I think something similar is going on today among women.

Certain class advantages make it easier for upper middle class and wealthy women to don high heels. High heels can really only be worn routinely by women who don’t work on their feet all day (I’ll grant there are dedicated exceptions). Valet parking makes it a whole lot easier to wear shoes that hurt to walk in, so does not having to take the bus.* Having money, in itself, means that nothing stands between you and buying things that are impractical.

So, high heels function to differentiate women who can afford to be impractical with their footwear — both monetarily and in practice — from women who can’t.

 

[mlp]

^^^ There's a lot of truth in that.

One of the things that irritates me about so many American TV shows is that so many of them have their female characters who are doctors, lawyers, police officers, etc., wear these ridiculously high heels and tight, revealing, clothes. IRL, you don't see that because not only is it impractical, you just wouldn't be taken seriously.

 

[Freesia]

Ive always rebelled against high heels. They are beautiful but they mean you have to take taxis everywhere, and if you go out at night you end up with really sore feet. I look for either trainers or a shoe with a 2-3 inch heel.

 

[ledboots]

Ive always rebelled against high heels. They are beautiful but they mean you have to take taxis everywhere, and if you go out at night you end up with really sore feet. I look for either trainers or a shoe with a 2-3 inch heel.

Me too. But I'm a nurse, and all I care about is vegan and comfortable on my feet.

 

[beancounter]

I can proudly say that I've never worn high heels.

 

[thefadedone]

Ive always rebelled against high heels. They are beautiful but they mean you have to take taxis everywhere, and if you go out at night you end up with really sore feet. I look for either trainers or a shoe with a 2-3 inch heel.

Me too. But I'm a nurse, and all I care about is vegan and comfortable on my feet.

Just sneakers for me.

 

[yakherder]

Reminds me of the scene in Triple xXx where Vin Diesel wakes up in a situation in a bar, but figures out it's staged when he notices the waitress is wearing high heels, and it's therefore not really a waitress.

 

[SummerRain]

I think the class system in the UK is really interesting, because it's so ingrained you barely notice it.

My parents would say they were working class I am sure, they come from working class families and there's a lot of pride involved in being "working class" (or there was, before working class became synonymous with not actually working) but they have definitely moved to "middle class" now, in their jobs, salaries, values and taste. I think they'd be offended if I told them so though. I guess their generation, in my family, bridge the gap between working and middle class - my parents and their siblings children all go to university and have jobs in science/business/etc, but their parents worked in trades, factories or as cleaners. It must be a strange place to be, but also nice, to see your children having better opportunities than you and your parents did.

I think it's interesting how important taste is to the class system too, especially within the middle classes. I was bought up with a strong sense of what was tasteful and what wasn't (not tasteful: wearing lots of designer labels, flashy cars, big TVs, an interest in celebrities, very casual clothes i.e. tracksuits, ready meals... the list is endless) and you just accept it without question, it's ingrained. I watched an interesting program about class and taste and it made me realise how many ridiculously meaningless things have ascribed "taste", and how strong and emotional peoples reactions to taste are, including my own.

 

[Moll Flanders]

BBC - BBC Lab UK - About the Great British Class Survey
Here is a class survey on the BBC website, for people who really want to know where you stand you can take a test.
BBC - Lab UK - The Great British Class Survey

ETA:

BBC News - The Great British class calculator: What class are you?

I did this test and apparently I'm Technical middle class.

Result: the class group you most closely match is:
Technical middle class
This is a small, distinctive and prosperous new class group. According to the Great British Class Survey results, lots of people in this group:

• Mix socially with people similar to themselves
• Work in research, science and technical fields
• Enjoy emerging culture such as going to the gym and using social media.

 

[Second Summer]

Thanks for posting that, Moll. It seems our friends' professions have a strong bearing on which class we belong to. I hadn't thought of that.

 

[yally]

I am emergent service worker. Which is culturally and socially cool, financially sucky. I'm cool with that.

 

[Moll Flanders]

I think that class test is skewed towards homeowners and people with some savings.

Here is another test: Are you a pleb?

My result:
You are the middlest of the middle class. You are fuelled by hummus and centre-left politics. You would never refer to anyone as a pleb.

 

[Spang]

Result: the class group you most closely match is:

Emergent service workers

This class group is financially insecure, scoring low for savings and house value, but high for social and cultural factors.

 

[das_nut]

I am emergent service worker. Which is culturally and socially cool, financially sucky. I'm cool with that.

So am I, oddly enough. We're social kin!

Then again, I'm not British so maybe it's a tad confused.

On the pleb test, I'm the middlest of the middle class. It's kind of scarily accurate: "You are fuelled by hummus and centre-left politics." Aye!

/Maybe I should take tests designed for Americans. But that wouldn't be fun...

 

[Swamp-Dweller]

How about classless??

 

[Kitties]

I may make half way decent money, but do I work for it.

I've never thought of myself as ambitious. I just try to survive. There seems to be this thought that money, and lots of it, is happiness. I don't think that's necessarily true. Though having enough money to not have to worry about money all the time does matter. My goal is to get to the point where I can work less and hopefully live very cheaply.

There is a nursing assistant where I work who has told me he has no desire to go to collage but he doesn't really like his job. He said he woudln't mind a warehouse or factory job but we don't have many jobs like that anymore. I have a vintage bookcase made in San Francisco. It's still labeled. Someone supported themselves and perhaps even a family by making furniture. We don't do that so much anymore. Now it's education. education. education. I don't think an education is for everyone. People used to make things in my country (USA) things people wanted to buy. But not anymore. People could make it without an education.

I think I went way off topic. I just don't envy. I never really have. I've been broke but never hungry because of it. I'm happy enough with what I have. I could eat better but I basically had sugar for lunch after shopping at Trader Joe's today

I also find my workplace a little study in class. The front office is the higher upper class and those of us who actually work the floor seem to be considered crap. I actually had the assistant administrator (*****) tell me after giving me **** how "dedicated to healthcare" she is. All while she sits on her *** and we go weeks never seeing administration on the floor.

 

[Moll Flanders]

I know this is an old thread but I just saw an American class test where you can look at your living room and work out what class you belong to.

I got 73 which means I am apparently 50-100: High prole (working class).

THE LIVING