Am I not a vegan then?

[Brian W]

The Vegan Society seem fond of continually changing the definition of the term "vegan" ever since the time it was taken over by animal rights activists and kicked out it's founder who was the one who originally coined the term vegan as a purely dietry choice to distinguish it from "vegetarian." Once upon a time, one could say that one is vegan for health reasons or ecological reasons but now, one is not technically a vegan unless it is for the animals. According to the definition here, ( Animal Liberation Front Founder Proposes New Definition Of Veganism ) I cannot call myself a vegan because I don't believe in the moral imperative to preach - I just make my own choices in my own life and want to leave it there. Of course I find myself discussing the issues with other people quite naturally from time to time but I don't feel in any way that I must or ought to and I don't see why it should form a part of the definition.

 

[PTree15]

"A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."

^^^ That definition is on the Vegan Society's website.

I think you can still call yourself a vegan if you're following the lifestyle. I'm happy when anyone goes vegan, regardless of the reason, because I started out as a "health" conscious vegetarian myself. When I learned more about the horrors of industrial food production, flesh and dairy in particular, it became about the animals for me. And I do care deeply about the environment, so it's a bonus to have another reason to be vegan.

The word "promote" is pretty broad. It doesn't say preach; you can technically promote by example, no? I don't preach, either, but I'm happy to discuss the reasons to go vegan if I'm asked. It comes up a lot, especially when I provide a vegan dish at a potluck, for instance. The discussion inevitably turns to why I went vegan, and I explain as politely as possible, but I'm frank about it. If it gets one person to consider consuming fewer animals or animal products, I consider that a win.

I think it's hard enough to consider getting people to go vegan without the pressure of having to preach. Some people just aren't comfortable doing that. I think it's a mistake to include a requirement in the definition for promotion. It almost sounds like proselytizing, and I'm not a fan of that.

 

[GingerFoxx]

In my opinion, living the lifestyle is leading by example, and promoting by extension of that. I know I personally am not the outspoken/preachy sort, but I will answer questions when asked, to a certain degree.

 

[Jamie in Chile]

Once upon a time, one could say that one is vegan for health reasons or ecological reasons but now, one is not technically a vegan unless it is for the animals.

I don't agree with this, although it depends whose definition you use. I think if you don't use animal products you are a vegan, regardless of reason.

However...then again.... vegan is defined quite strictly, with the majority of vegans including the UK vegan society believing that you shouldn't call yourself vegan if you say eat cake at a birthday party or eat non-vegan pastas and breads.

Now, if you really are a health or environment vegan, and not an ethical vegan, then why would you care about tiny amounts of animal products in processed foods or whether some beer is vegan or not. It doesn't matter from a health or environment perspective. So, presumably, in practice health and environment vegans are not that strict about it, which in the opinion of the majority of vegans including the UK vegan society, does not make them vegan at all.

Also, if you are a health or environment vegan, you wouldn't have any reason to avoid non-vegan clothes and other non-food products, which, according to most, makes you either not vegan or "dietary vegan" or "plant based" or whatever.

However if you are health and environment vegan, but don't care about animal ethics, but do strictly avoid processed food with tiny traces of animal products and avoid non-vegan clothes and other non-vegan products, perhaps because you are just following along with your other vegan friends or whatever other reason you chose to be strict about it, then you are just as vegan as anyone.

None of the above is my opinion. I'm just describing how it seems that the majority of vegans and the UK vegan society sees it. Personally I think that the environment and health vegans should be welcomed more uniformly and clearly and compassionately. I think those looking to tighten up the definition are making a strategic mistake that may even lead to less veganism. Personally, I would like to see a simpler definition prevailing either: "Vegans do not use animal products" or "vegans do not use animal products as far as possible and practical". And I think the interpretation of that definition should be loosened up a little.

 

[Poppy]

I wish it were easy to be perfectly vegan, but it really is not.

 

[Val]

Once upon a time, one could say that one is vegan for health reasons or ecological reasons but now, one is not technically a vegan unless it is for the animals.

Brjed! ("Delirium"). This assumption looks like a speculation,- i just can't figure out yet for what reason. If a person has high moral standards - then becoming/being vegan for health (for the environment) is inseparable in his mind from becoming vegan for the animals (though it might take some time realizing that). I mean, is it really that important what "trigger" leads you to making this life-changing decision? The more important thing is to become vegan eventually. You don't have to be a vegan activist and run around with banners and pour red paint on everything to "prove" that you love animals and that you're a "true" vegan. When i first went vegan, i was constantly blaming myself, that i'm kind of a "wrong" vegan, and that the fact that i went vegan for health reasons only, makes me a bad person. But(!) it turned out that it's all the matter of time and self-education. This is weird, but at the same time (with blaming myself), i couldn't believe that the ethical side of the problem was getting as important to me as health/environmental sides. (No wonder, as my whole life i'd been taught that animals are being raised for us to eat, and that we need to eat animal products simply to survive,- i guess, that partly was the heritage of Soviet era and hungry years during/after Perestroika). But i began to realize gradually, that i CAN'T eat animals anymore (just because). And i don't care if someone calls me a vegetarian instead of a vegan,- because i've gone through a long way, full of slip-offs, doubts, misunderstanding and bullying, and violence towards me, because i was "killing myself with a horrible unnatural vegan diet" (in doctors' and my mom's opinion). Of course, i'm trying to avoid animal products in clothes and cosmetics as much as possible (except, there are a lot of hidden ingredients around, so i have to double-check everything, and even then i'm not sure). But thank god, i have very distinctive autoimmune reactions to animal stuff in my food, so i don't ever have any temptation to devour something wrong because "my left leg wants it". But again, i don't regret, that i HAVE TO avoid it, because now, consciously eating something animal-derived would make me shiver, and make my left eye blink (haha, it happens when i'm not ok).

 

[Tom L.]

I suppose a few people follow vegan practices for reasons other than animal rights/welfare, but I don't think too many people do. Cardiovascular disease and Type 2 diabetes run in my family- the first on my Mom's side, the second on my Dad's. So I'm pretty sure it's done me a lot of good to avoid the saturated fat and sugar that I would have been eating if I still consumed eggs, milk, non-vegan sweet baked goods... (I swear I crave sweet things like donuts more now than I did as a child!!!!).

BUT.... if my only reason for eating the way I do was to stay healthy, I honestly don't know that I would have had to be so strict about it. @Indian Summer or the other mods can delete this post if he thinks it should be deleted, but sometimes I give in to temptation and eat something that isn't vegan (specifically something like a donut, cinnamon bun, or brownie). I'm not excusing this, even though it happens very rarely.

 

[silva]

Well.... what other reason would someone have for avoiding products that exploit animals?

What I so dislike is when people say vegans should only eat whole, unprocessed plants. Health is a personal decision and choice, and while I realize babies and children can't decide for themselves, that's true about everything

 

[silva]

I suppose a few people follow vegan practices for reasons other than animal rights/welfare, but I don't think too many people do. Cardiovascular disease and Type 2 diabetes run in my family- the first on my Mom's side, the second on my Dad's. So I'm pretty sure it's done me a lot of good to avoid the saturated fat and sugar that I would have been eating if I still consumed eggs, milk, non-vegan sweet baked goods... (I swear I crave sweet things like donuts more now than I did as a child!!!!).

BUT.... if my only reason for eating the way I do was to stay healthy, I honestly don't know that I would have had to be so strict about it. @Indian Summer or the other mods can delete this post if he thinks it should be deleted, but sometimes I give in to temptation and eat something that isn't vegan (specifically something like a donut, cinnamon bun, or brownie). I'm not excusing this, even though it happens very rarely.

Yes, but being vegan involves avoiding animal exploitation, and that goes far beyond diet. Many that follow plant based diets have horrible opinions of vegans and only concerned about health

 

[peacefulveglady]

I am vegan now because of Health and environment and too much animal production happening polluting our planet.

 

[Val]

Well.... what other reason would someone have for avoiding products that exploit animals?

What I so dislike is when people say vegans should only eat whole, unprocessed plants. Health is a personal decision and choice, and while I realize babies and children can't decide for themselves, that's true about everything

LOL, what i'm going to do now is to eat "horrible" processed vegan food, everyone is fighting against so fiercely. I just haven't decided yet which one: either veggie nuggets or chickpea dumplings.

 

[Tom L.]

Yes, but being vegan involves avoiding animal exploitation, and that goes far beyond diet. Many that follow plant based diets have horrible opinions of vegans and only concerned about health

True. I guess what confuses me sometimes is: how someone could modify their lifestyle (in a way many would consider extreme: going vegan) to avoid harming animals- but not also care about their own health. I don't know... maybe it's not that they don't "care about their own health", but that not using animal products is easier for them than avoiding some non-dietary lifestyle practices which might not be healthy either.

 

[Danielle]

I think it makes veganism seem easier for people to do if they can still eat the food they like, except using vegan substitutes.
I don’t understand why people would be interested in veganism without any ethical motivation. They’d be plant based. There’s no reason to avoid animal products outside your diet like leather if it’s a choice that was made for your health.

 

[peacefulveglady]

I think it makes veganism seem easier for people to do if they can still eat the food they like, except using vegan substitutes.
I don’t understand why people would be interested in veganism without any ethical motivation. They’d be plant based. There’s no reason to avoid animal products outside your diet like leather if it’s a choice that was made for your health.

I was opposite i too out leather and fur and animal testing first before taking out the food.

 

[silva]

True. I guess what confuses me sometimes is: how someone could modify their lifestyle (in a way many would consider extreme: going vegan) to avoid harming animals- but not also care about their own health. I don't know... maybe it's not that they don't "care about their own health", but that not using animal products is easier for them than avoiding some non-dietary lifestyle practices which might not be healthy either.

The very same way that most people don't think much about the health of the diet! I don't see much correlation between being terribly health conscious just because you feel harming others is wrong.
I mean, most people give some thought about the health of their food choices, whether they follow through or not. You can follow a health based diet whatever your ethical beliefs.
Vegans shouldn't be subject to any more scrutiny about health foods than anyone else

 

[silva]

and...I'm really really sick of hearing if vegans don't want to eat meat why so many faux meats? First off, it only 'faux' if you identify it as faux meat. All the processed foods made of and from animal products, yet people can't understand processed food is just---processed food. It's processed to add taste, and cravability and ease of prep, and portability. If humans never ate animals I'm pretty sure there would still be processed food, just that no one would identify it as faux meat!
It's like when my Indian friend heard me saying kala namak tastes like egg. She kept saying no, no it doesn't, because she doesn't eat eggs, but does use kala namak. She couldn't believe it tasted like eggs

 

[Danielle]

My mom was talking to our yoga instructor about being vegan, she was talking about making vegan egg and sausage for breakfast and the instructor did not hide her disgust, she said she likes natural food. There is something about vegan alternatives to food that is off putting to some, even though it is made out of natural ingredients. Some people see it as a science experiment

 

[Mikkel]

Please show me the list of animals that cares why you are vegan! That is so tiny, that it's just other vegans on it...

I have never understood how it's possible to make a split between for the animals and for the enviroment. Without a living Earth, the animals can't have a place to live. It's possible to harm animals in a lot of other ways than just not only support the industry and hunting.

But it's harder being a vegan for the enviroment sometimes I think, because it means you have to do other changes in your life to avoid doing harm to the planet, not only avoid animal products. So it includes so much more, that not only eat and wear animals.

 

[Tom L.]

and...I'm really really sick of hearing if vegans don't want to eat meat why so many faux meats? First off, it only 'faux' if you identify it as faux meat. All the processed foods made of and from animal products, yet people can't understand processed food is just---processed food. It's processed to add taste, and cravability and ease of prep, and portability. If humans never ate animals I'm pretty sure there would still be processed food, just that no one would identify it as faux meat!

(bold emphasis mine) I think I know of a few people saying it's not consistent for vegetarians or vegans to like the taste of vegan meat substitutes- but I never saw the problem, and frankly, I think people who say such things are just being jerks- kinda like the ones who used to argue that plants have feelings or consciousness.

I enjoyed foods of animal origin growing up, but I always liked vegetarian foods too- beans, rolled oats (then, now, and always my FAVE BREAKFAST!!!... and sometimes my lunch or even dinner), other grains, spinach, broccoli... so maybe the transition was easier for me than many. But I'm glad there are satisfying substitutes for folks who miss meat, fish, eggs, milk, etc more than I did.

I know of people who bust on "fake meats" too, saying that they're nothing like the real thing- but I honestly think it would be hard for me to tell the difference between a well-cooked ground flesh burger and one of the meat-style vegetarian burgers... and if I could tell the difference, but I still enjoyed the veggie version... what of it?

 

[Danielle]

A vegan burger will never taste like a cow burger. If it did, I’d be worried that I’m being tricked. I’d be worried about eating out, if it were that similar then mistakes would be easier to make and I’d have no way of knowing. As long as it taste good and is filling. Since it’s made out of different ingredients it is unrealistic to expect the same flavor or texture.