Alex O'Connor no longer vegan

[g0rph]

Alex O'Connor's latest update...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7kIy8fZavEni8Gzl8NLjOQ/community?lb=UgkxVP-4k434KUPazJz5pn3RRSFkfJfTjTiY

This is very disheartening. Alex was the person directly responsible for me looking into veganism.
I followed him for years because of his atheist posts, and when he went vegan it put that thought process into motion for me through the moral logic of his discussions.

This backing out seems extremely fishy (no pun intended). I do hope he can explain himself far better than he has so far...That seems to be the same old tired and worn out excuses used by lazy omnivores.

 

[bEt]

g0rph, I understand your disappointment. This person was important in your own journey.

However,
This may not be a popular point of view, but I prefer not to criticize "former vegans"; after all, they have done more than 90+% of the population ever will, in terms of making an effort to better our world.

No one is perfect; we are all in different 'places' in our lives. And my understanding is that most people who drop their 'veganism' don't go back to nearly the same consumption pattern they had before.
In my opinion, that in itself is growth, and is worth celebrating.

In my own mind, I'm much more worried about all the people who still have no idea about the true costs of their meat habit.

 

[Brian W]

My main concern is that people always claim health issues when they give up veganism. This fuels people's excuses as to why they don't try. I am very sympathetic to human weakness and to health issues where they are real but I'm not fully convinced that they always are. Other than that, I still think Alex is a darn decent guy!

 

[David3]

Alex O'Connor's latest update...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7kIy8fZavEni8Gzl8NLjOQ/community?lb=UgkxVP-4k434KUPazJz5pn3RRSFkfJfTjTiY

This is very disheartening. Alex was the person directly responsible for me looking into veganism.
I followed him for years because of his atheist posts, and when he went vegan it put that thought process into motion for me through the moral logic of his discussions.

This backing out seems extremely fishy (no pun intended). I do hope he can explain himself far better than he has so far...That seems to be the same old tired and worn out excuses used by lazy omnivores.

.
I apologize for the ageism, but Alex O'Connor is 23 years old. I think it's very likely that he was making simple, fundamental errors in his vegan diet. Talking to his 20-something peers wouldn't help that situation.
.

 

[g0rph]

g0rph, I understand your disappointment. This person was important in your own journey.

However,
This may not be a popular point of view, but I prefer not to criticize "former vegans"; after all, they have done more than 90+% of the population ever will, in terms of making an effort to better our world.

No one is perfect; we are all in different 'places' in our lives. And my understanding is that most people who drop their 'veganism' don't go back to nearly the same consumption pattern they had before.
In my opinion, that in itself is growth, and is worth celebrating.

In my own mind, I'm much more worried about all the people who still have no idea about the true costs of their meat habit.

I think my main concern is that he had built up quite a following based on his logical approach to veganism, and the reply, especially the way he has worded it is only going to add fire to the frankly, illogical and countless debunked arguments against plant-based diets.

I really hope he puts out a well-researched explanation video, because frankly, right now I feel almost personally betrayed (and I know I shouldn't).
It's a smack in the teeth from someone I had held in a very high regard.

 

[g0rph]

.
I apologize for the ageism, but Alex O'Connor is 23 years old. I think it's very likely that he was making simple, fundamental errors in his vegan diet. Talking to his 20-something peers wouldn't help that situation.
.

Could be, but given his intellectual ability, that would surprise me.

 

[David3]

Could be, but given his intellectual ability, that would surprise me.

.
His education is in theology and philosophy, not nutrition: About .

I personally know some highly educated and experienced people who nevertheless have big knowledge gaps in topics that lie outside their specialties.

Smart student or no, Alex O'Connor is a 23-year-old young man, with limited life experience.

 

[Emma JC]

Have to agree - I think it is admirable that he has been vegan at all. 23, wow, so many life changes happen for the next 20+ years at this age. He is still finding his place in the world and at 23 we all think/thought that we knew everything about everything. Lots of learning and growing ahead.

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[bEt]

I don't know how many people here have already read this, which Jack Norris, RD links to in his "Tips for New Vegans" post, and I don't know if it is relevant to this thread from other people's point of view, but I think it's very interesting.

A warning is that it isn't https or "secure"--as a technophobe I have no idea what that means . . .

Facing Failing Health As A Vegan | Bonzai Aphrodite

It's about an experienced, knowledgeable young vegan who felt she came close to giving up for health reasons. If she hadn't had access to some very, very outstanding healthcare/guidance, who knows how her story could have turned out?

 

[Brian W]

It seems the idealist vegans on YT are already starting to make videos, believing they know best.

 

[David3]

Back in 2014-15, a whole crowd of 20-something vegans gained popularity on YouTube - remember that? Among the most popular were young women who promoted essentially fruit-only diets. They told their followers that grains and beans were unhealthy. They encouraged people to drink enormous quantities of fruit smoothies. Later on, their popularity died away, but I think it damaged the reputation of vegan nutrition.

I understand why young people won't listen to us older vegans - I became vegan at 22, and the only people I spoke with were in their 20s. What's the solution?

 

[Lou]

My main concern is that people always claim health issues when they give up veganism. This fuels people's excuses as to why they don't try. I am very sympathetic to human weakness and to health issues where they are real but I'm not fully convinced that they always are. Other than that, I still think Alex is a darn decent guy!

We will see what happens next. But previously when "famous" vegans quit and posted other vegans put up some rebuttal videos. Mick the vegan usually responds, And the woman.... can't remember her name.... she usually jumps in

 

[Lou]

Back in 2014-15, a whole crowd of 20-something vegans gained popularity on YouTube - remember that? ....but I think it damaged the reputation of vegan nutrition.

Did it? Not so sure. I think it got more people to talk about it and I put that in "the good thing" category.

I presume you are talking about Freelee and her banana diet.

 

[David3]

Did it? Not so sure. I think it got more people to talk about it and I put that in "the good thing" category.

I presume you are talking about Freelee and her banana diet.

.
Yes, exactly, Freelee.

I hope you're right about that being a good thing overall.

On the lighter side, the "Portlandia" comedy show did a funny-as-hell spoof of Freelee and Durianrider and their "30 Bananas a Day" diet:

 

[silva]

g0rph, I understand your disappointment. This person was important in your own journey.

However,
This may not be a popular point of view, but I prefer not to criticize "former vegans"; after all, they have done more than 90+% of the population ever will, in terms of making an effort to better our world.

No one is perfect; we are all in different 'places' in our lives. And my understanding is that most people who drop their 'veganism' don't go back to nearly the same consumption pattern they had before.
In my opinion, that in itself is growth, and is worth celebrating.

In my own mind, I'm much more worried about all the people who still have no idea about the true costs of their meat habit.

For the most part I completely disagree. The name was familiar to me, and I read through his statements, and the comments. So many used his dropping out as justification--that even someone with such priviledge, and access to plant based foods, supplements, & doctors would need to give it up due to "health" issues, it must be very hard, and only for certain people who might tolerate it.

These retractions from longtime outspoken vegan advocates give so much ammunition to those who may say they want to be vegan but it's just not right for them, as well as those simply opposed to the idea

"My opposition to factory farming remains unchanged, as do my views regarding the need to view nonhuman animals as morally worthy beings whose interests ethically matter. However I am no longer convinced of the appropriateness of an individual-focused boycott in responding to these problems, and am increasingly doubtful of the practicability of maintaining a healthy plant-based diet in the long-term (again, for reasons I hope to go into in more detail at a later date)".

 

[Brian W]

So many used his dropping out as justification--that even someone with such priviledge, and access to plant based foods, supplements, & doctors would need to give it up due to "health" issues, it must be very hard, and only for certain people who might tolerate it.

That's on them. He found things difficult and couldn't continue. He can't be responsible for other people's excuses.

 

[silva]

Later on, their popularity died away, but I think it damaged the reputation of vegan nutrition.
Back in 2014-15, a whole crowd of 20-something vegans gained popularity on YouTube - remember that? Among the most popular were young women who promoted essentially fruit-only diets. They told their followers that grains and beans were unhealthy. They encouraged people to drink enormous quantities of fruit smoothies.
Later on, their popularity died away, but I think it damaged the reputation of vegan nutrition.L

I understand why young people won't listen to us older vegans - I became vegan at 22, and the only people I spoke with were in their 20s. What's the solution?

Yes, it was awful! Later you'd read about one or another having orgasms from eating the first steak

Did it? Not so sure. I think it got more people to talk about it and I put that in "the good thing" category.
I presume you are talking about Freelee and her banana diet.

I believe it did. What i remember most was a lot of talk about how dangerous a vegan diet was, and how crazy vegans are .
Dam. I remember a whole mess of back and forth smack talk between vegans, including personal drama

All the omnivores with deficiences and clogged arteries, diabetes---all kinds of diseases directly connected to their diet, but one vegan claiming their lack of animal products is causing them to feel off is another win for meateaters

 

[silva]

Omnivores don't eat the same--almost every household has different food preferences and ways to prepare food. Not all types of meat is eaten. There is junk food, there is oil, sugar, there are organic and free range there are Whole 30 eaters there are keto paleo
Some people complain of indigestion, of heartburn, of high BP low potassium risk of diabetes. Some have no adverse effects. Diets may change, but how often do we hear someone say they're going to quit being omnivorous? More often than not, they just change what they eat!
DUH

 

[Emma JC]

Did it? Not so sure. I think it got more people to talk about it and I put that in "the good thing" category.

I presume you are talking about Freelee and her banana diet.

speaking of Freelee - I had joined her forum way back when I first started finding vegans on youtube and haven't been back there in years - received a notification a couple of days ago that she was taking the forum down and just concentrating on her other social media

I am still watching a number of those "twenty-something" vegans from 2016 and beyond and they have been extremely helpful to me on my journey - there are a couple that fell off and I just stopped watching them. others are still there and doing great work and providing great information.

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[bEt]

I'm thinking about the idea that one person giving up on animal-free for 'health reasons' could discourage someone else from trying it in the first place. I can see how that makes sense.

It wouldn't have dissuaded me, though. For one, I have a history of pushing my own health to the back burner when I have other priorities (though I'm getting better about that). For another, I'm exceedingly stubborn--if 20 people had told me "That's not gonna work", I wouldn't have listened.

Of course, it could be different for somebody else-- I don't know someone else's mind-- I'm still working on knowing my own.