Airheaded Idiots Misrepresenting Veganism-An Observation

Forest Nymph

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We Don't Need Anymore Airheaded Idiots Misrepresenting Veganism - An Observation

The problem with veganism is not "meanness" nor is it "activists" but rather a disproportionate number of vegans being quite airheaded, stupid, uneducated people who advocate a form of veganism that is neither rational nor realistic.

The very stereotype of vegans is that they are emotionally motivated hippie weirdos, and that is absolutely not helped when we are misrepresented as people who don't believe in taking B12 supplements, people who only eat extreme raw or fruitarian diets, or people who believe in things like drinking pee, "sun gazing", or flat earth. What's more, is that a lot of these under-educated hippie vegans quickly become ex-vegans, promoting carnivore diets or paleo caveman fare as what they found to be more "natural" via books like Ecotopia.

While I won't suggest You Tube is overrun with these types, there are enough misrepresenting veganism as an easily debunked flake-fest that it is hurting the cause. I suggest that there is a second type that is hurting veganism, and that is "be nice to everyone at any cause veganism." I say this because like most people who have never gone to college, "I feel" rules the day, and when "I feel" rules the day, nothing and everything is valid. "I feel this is nice" is not an argument that will convince any intelligent person, ever, for any reason, and it is also one that is easily debunked by a person who says "I feel the opposite is nice." It's like arguing about religion and I think we all know where that gets us (terrorism, wars, apartheid and environmental devastation).

While we shouldn't overtly bash other vegan activists publicly in speeches or articles (just because it's counterproductive to the movement), and it doesn't help anyone to scream at their co-workers over lunch, "being nice" has its limits as a social strategy. It's a very basic one followed by females and submissive males in a shrewdness of chimpanzees. Chimpanzees also hunt other primates, go to war, and murder each other in ritualistic serial killings, so I'm not certain we should be taking strong suggestions on behavior from chimps. While bonobos are nicer, bonobos are already free-loving vegetarians who never murder anyone so they don't need advocacy.

This is not my opinion alone. I didn't decide this from navel gazing. From an extensive study of varied forms of animal rights activism, as well as what works in both environmental and animal rights activism, "being nice" isn't enough and taken too far it's actually extremely harmful to any movement. I completely understand the importance of timidly asking your parent or supervisor to eat less meat because of survival needs, or the preference of not getting arrested, but I strongly contest the notion that being passive or "setting an example" has done any real good to save the planet or liberate animals in a world full of corporate capitalist factory farms, mindless consumerism and violent coups.
 
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Forest Nymph

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Forest Nymph is incredibly smart and observant.
Thank you. I greatly appreciate that. Because I can also be very stupid in getting along with people, and when I was just replying in your thread about my ex, I described him as a "genius" in his field that is unsurpassed by most average people with his interests (though I don't think he outpaces the greats in the field) I realized I also completely despaired in explaining the problem of Vitamin D milk to him. I will NEVER know as much about giallos or Italian film as my ex, or about art concepts like No Wave, but I felt he was a simpleton in understanding The Way Things Are, because he didn't pay attention to those things. He refused to. He called all politicians talking heads, regardless of affiliation.

Some people, like him, are so brilliantly specialized it's a waste of time to try to compete on their level in that field, or to try to explain anything too far outside of that sphere. He could certainly understand other ideas, but we mostly bonded over 80s music and performance art and social issues.

I'm not necessarily targeting those people who are hard to reach because they so deeply specialize in a particular area.

I'm mad at people who try to specialize in ours, with a casualness that is offensive. I think this is a modern trend. Back in the day, even the most normal people, no matter how Cosmopolitan or broad or worldly or Renaissance, were expected to stay in their concentration or at least acknowledge when they didn't understand something. People don't acknowledge what they don't know anymore. It's the Internet. It's very strange and harmful.
 
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Nekodaiden

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Your whole diatribe sounds like a big big lack of faith in the discernment
of people to separate a practice from other things that define them outside this practice. Maybe this stems from your idea that veganism is a practice that is motivated by a particular belief, as opposed to one that may be motived by multiple beliefs or desires?

There's plenty of vegans out there with varying beliefs and I honestly can't believe
anything considered peculiar about some of them by others hurts anything. So John's
a liberal. Susan's a hippie. Joe drives a BMW and gets
the latest in expensive fashion, Alex is a flat earther, and Drake believes
we'll colonize Mars. Jeff grows his own vegetables, and Jean buys everything
from the supermarket. Some vegans live in rural areas of poor countries
and some live in industrialized cities. Some are extroverts, and others
live a quite secluded life. And omg, there's even urine drinking vegans...
that have convinced the hordes of non-vegans we all are doing the same,
preferably chilled and diluted with soy milk.

Does any one of these vegans represent all vegans? Not to the discerning
person, only to someone who completely lacks faith in another's ability
to separate other differences in people from how they identify on one
subject.

As a side note I find your use of "we" as in "we shouldn't/should do/treat/believe" etc somewhat disturbing. It's typically used like this by politicians
or others assuming a "leader of the collective" identity to push whatever agenda they are attempting to push.
 

Poppy

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Forest Nymph's post was not a diatribe; not at all.

FN's post was meant to acknowledge that giving too much attention to the attention seekers draws away from the real meaning of being vegan - of doing as little harm as possible in this crazy world.
 

silva

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....so basically you're acknowledging vegans are as diverse as any other group of people, and you dislike the idea that those with extreme or wacky views get attention? Name a minority group that doesn't have stereotypes.
 

Andy_T

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I am afraid that the more "mainstream" people try out veganism (a think we all want to happen, of course), there will also be a larger number of people who do not really get it, or who have other and strange beliefs and views joining the vegan ranks.
 

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Hi Forest Nymph! I generally agree.

Probably not accurate to use the term "under-educated hippies". There are hippies with lots of formal education, and hippies with little formal education.
.
 

David3

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Save me from the vegans who refuse to take vitamin B12 supplements.

B12 tablets are cheap, tiny, widely available, and prevent future problems. Some are even fruit-flavored. All mainstream vegan organizations recommend that vegans take them.

Disappointingly, the founder of "Vegan Health & Fitness" magazine, Brenda Carey, claims that B12 supplementation is unnecessary. Her arguments are very poorly substantiated. Jack Norris, Registered Dietitian and founder of Vegan Outreach, published this article criticizing Carey's opposition to B12 supplements: http://jacknorrisrd.com/vegan-health-fitness-magazine-vegans-need-b12/ . In the comments section of the article, Dr. Michael Greger re-affirms his intention to educate vegans about the importance of taking vitamin B12, and/or consuming B12-fortified foods.
 
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SapphireLightning

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Hi Forest Nymph! I generally agree.

Probably not accurate to use the term "under-educated hippies". There are hippies with lots of formal education, and hippies with little formal education.
.
I never understood the idea of hippies being vegan as a stereotype, and not even really when it comes to what a hippy "is". My understanding of hippies shows a hedonistic lifestyle, throwing any perceived shackles to the wind. The whole "peace and love" message the hippy group had back in the day seemed to only apply to other humans, and only in some sort of faux way towards animals. IE, I doubt I have ever met a dyed-in-the-wool hippy that was also vegan. That being said, I have met many, many vegans who also see how important human rights are to the world, including sexual freedom. I wonder if those people are being mislabelled as "hippy"...
 

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We Don't Need Anymore Airheaded Idiots Misrepresenting Veganism - An Observation

The problem with veganism is not "meanness" nor is it "activists" but rather a disproportionate number of vegans being quite airheaded, stupid, uneducated people who advocate a form of veganism that is neither rational nor realistic.

The very stereotype of vegans is that they are emotionally motivated hippie weirdos, and that is absolutely not helped when we are misrepresented as people who don't believe in taking B12 supplements, people who only eat extreme raw or fruitarian diets, or people who believe in things like drinking pee, "sun gazing", or flat earth. What's more, is that a lot of these under-educated hippie vegans quickly become ex-vegans, promoting carnivore diets or paleo caveman fare as what they found to be more "natural" via books like Ecotopia.

While I won't suggest You Tube is overrun with these types, there are enough misrepresenting veganism as an easily debunked flake-fest that it is hurting the cause. I suggest that there is a second type that is hurting veganism, and that is "be nice to everyone at any cause veganism." I say this because like most people who have never gone to college, "I feel" rules the day, and when "I feel" rules the day, nothing and everything is valid. "I feel this is nice" is not an argument that will convince any intelligent person, ever, for any reason, and it is also one that is easily debunked by a person who says "I feel the opposite is nice." It's like arguing about religion and I think we all know where that gets us (terrorism, wars, apartheid and environmental devastation).

While we shouldn't overtly bash other vegan activists publicly in speeches or articles (just because it's counterproductive to the movement), and it doesn't help anyone to scream at their co-workers over lunch, "being nice" has its limits as a social strategy. It's a very basic one followed by females and submissive males in a shrewdness of chimpanzees. Chimpanzees also hunt other primates, go to war, and murder each other in ritualistic serial killings, so I'm not certain we should be taking strong suggestions on behavior from chimps. While bonobos are nicer, bonobos are already free-loving vegetarians who never murder anyone so they don't need advocacy.

This is not my opinion alone. I didn't decide this from navel gazing. From an extensive study of varied forms of animal rights activism, as well as what works in both environmental and animal rights activism, "being nice" isn't enough and taken too far it's actually extremely harmful to any movement. I completely understand the importance of timidly asking your parent or supervisor to eat less meat because of survival needs, or the preference of not getting arrested, but I strongly contest the notion that being passive or "setting an example" has done any real good to save the planet or liberate animals in a world full of corporate capitalist factory farms, mindless consumerism and violent coups.
Why are you constantly putting down people who don't have a college education?!

Some of the most intelligent, insightful, knowledgeable people I have met in my life never went to college.
 

MoreGreens

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I never understood the idea of hippies being vegan as a stereotype, and not even really when it comes to what a hippy "is". My understanding of hippies shows a hedonistic lifestyle, throwing any perceived shackles to the wind. The whole "peace and love" message the hippy group had back in the day seemed to only apply to other humans, and only in some sort of faux way towards animals. IE, I doubt I have ever met a dyed-in-the-wool hippy that was also vegan. That being said, I have met many, many vegans who also see how important human rights are to the world, including sexual freedom. I wonder if those people are being mislabelled as "hippy"...
I haven't met any OG hippy vegans either, most are vegetarians. They love their backyard eggs and view their hens as pets. I think the peace and love thing extends to Mother Earth as well because they tend to be environmentalists. Ha! And strong advocates for the legalization of cannabis.

Since the OP lives in Northern California, I'm sure they encounter a lot of older hippies who are also vegan. That must be a frustrating environment for an impassioned activist though, being surrounded by so many pacifists. I can only imagine how many young people show up there to learn about themselves only to cherrypick the hippy culture and mash it up with vegan fads. If those same young people then label themselves as hippies, I'm not surprised we're all a little confused about what it means to be a hippy in 2020.
 
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Gaspard

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Please be careful when you compare humans to chimps. Have a look at Franz de Waal on this topic:
 
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Gaspard

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Also, my first plant-based cooking book is from a hippie comunity (people who were both doctors and hippies). This book is from the seventies. I wasn't even born when the printed it. My parents had it from some strange place in the mountains.

So I don't like people who bully hippies.

Boris Johnson called people from Extinction Rebellion "crusties". Populists would like us to think they are “cleaner” and more civilised than hippies. But they are not. Well apparently their ladies shave their c*nts so they think they are. Clean as c*nts and retarded as my knuckle sandwich I’d like you to enjoy.

You hate hippies? How is that better than hating jews or gypsies? Is hatred so cool, so civilised? F*ck you.

And that's some great hippie music for those of you who like art music:

Well, if I was there with you guys I would enjoy to break your necks and plunge my fingers in your empty heads. See I’m not a hippie. I’d like to kick your clean civilised a*ses. How violent is that? Not that much I would argue if I compare it to your hatred.

I know I may be censored for writing this. But that the way I feel. Yea you can censure me. I think I went vegan partly because of plant-based hippies from the seventies. So come on, earase my f*cking hippies nostalgia.
 

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Also, my first plant-based cooking book is from a hippie comunity (people who were both doctors and hippies). This book is from the seventies. I wasn't even born when the printed it. My parents had it from some strange place in the mountains.

So I don't like people who bully hippies.

Boris Johnson called people from Extinction Rebellion "crusties". Populists would like us to think they are “cleaner” and more civilised than hippies. But they are not. Well apparently their ladies shave their c*nts so they think they are. Clean as c*nts and retarded as my knuckle sandwich I’d like you to enjoy.

You hate hippies? How is that better than hating jews or gypsies? Is hatred so cool, so civilised? F*ck you.

And that's some great hippie music for those of you who like art music:

Well, if I was there with you guys I would enjoy to break your necks and plunge my fingers in your empty heads. See I’m not a hippie. I’d like to kick your clean civilised a*ses. How violent is that? Not that much I would argue if I compare it to your hatred.

I know I may be censored for writing this. But that the way I feel. Yea you can censure me. I think I went vegan partly because of plant-based hippies from the seventies. So come on, earase my f*cking hippies nostalgia.
If you read the other posts in this thread, I think you'll find that your fellow vegans disapprove of stereotypes and discrimination.

Your graphically-violent threats don't serve much good purpose here. I think that you and I have both heard enough of this talk during the last ~ 20 years.
.
 
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Gaspard

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Your graphically-violent threats don't serve much good purpose here.
I don't give two sh*ts about that. I was p*ssed out so I just wrote what came through my mind. I had the desire to make some of you taste my knuckle sandwich, so why should I censor myself? I know I wouldn't do this in my mother tongue. In French I'm in control of myself and I write with style. But in English I'm bonkers I cannot be sacastic. So as I was angry I expressed it the way I could.
 
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Gaspard

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Also, guys please stop discriminating against raw vegans.
Emily from Bite Seize Vegan is a raw vegan and she's great. Amouraw is cute, Crudivegan is nice. Raw vegans are all right. And a well planned raw vegan diet is perfectly suitable. (I'm not a raw vegan, I'm into WFPB)
Just a reminder: some so called ethical vegans were very harmful to veganism. Jacko Wako Vegano was in it for the animals and then suddenly he became one of the most disgusting anti-vegans.
 
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Gaspard

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If you read the other posts in this thread, I think you'll find that your fellow vegans disapprove of stereotypes and discrimination.
From this thread:
"emotionally motivated hippie weirdos"
"under-educated hippie vegans"
"My understanding of hippies shows a hedonistic lifestyle, throwing any perceived shackles to the wind. The whole "peace and love" message the hippy group had back in the day seemed to only apply to other humans, and only in some sort of faux way towards animals. "

Yea all right. Mate, I may swear but it seems that you didn't read the thread.