Abusive relationships; Any 'winners'?

[Clueless Git]

Something very sad ...

My ex before last, the mother of my three children.

In hospital suffering partial paralysis bought on by self abuse now.

 

[Mischief]

My children are grown now Mischeif.

I have the luxury now, that if a relationship doesn't suit me, I can just walk away.

Just did exactly that but not before *****-slapping someone on the way out, obviously.

I gather from that response that you never did seek therapy for your anger and violence issues. That doesn't surprise me, since you are still so very busy trying to justify yourself. The first step to changing is acknowledging that what you are doing/have done is wrong, and you are doing the opposite of that.

If you were prone to honest self reflection, you might also have a smidgeon of awareness of the damage you did to your children, raising them in a violent environment.

 

[das_nut]

"Do you think that some people actualy feel the need to be abused?"

While it's patently obvious that some people are more likely to enter into abusive relationships (not just romantic ones, but work-related, etc. too), I worry that comments like this skirt the line of victim blaming. He/she "needs to be abused", so they are looking for it, responsible, etc. Getting the crap beat out of you by a partner is never your fault.

I can understand how this wording causes the hair to rise up on one's neck and the "wait a minute" klaxon to sound.

But on the other hand, I have witnessed people who gravitate towards abusive relationships. I don't blame them, I don't tend to blame anyone, TBH. We're all a product of the environment we live in. But I think that it isn't victim blaming to point out that there may be a poor mental framework present.

I really wish we, as a society, would do more to break the cycle. Some people, when young, are learning to be abusers. Others, when young, are learning to be abused. It's easy to imagine the circumstances - a kid grows up with parents in an abusive relationship and identifies with one or another more strongly. Or perhaps (for victims), it's a parent or peers that always tears a kid down. Maybe that kid is different, maybe that kid just has never had the chance to build up self-esteem. Or perhaps (for the abusers), it's a need for control, or perhaps they never had a chance to learn productive relationship and conflict resolution skills.

I suppose that's the answer to the OP's question - there are never any winners when abuse is happening.

 

[Clueless Git]

If you were prone to honest self reflection, you might also have a smidgeon of awareness of the damage you did to your children, raising them in a violent environment.

Self reflection?

Oh, the luxuries of being childless!

You don't self-reflect when your a parent, Mischeif.

Your children become the only truly honest reflection of yourself.

Not always a pretty picture mind ... comes complete with warts, and all.

 

[Clueless Git]

Or perhaps (for the abusers), it's a need for control ..

The issue of need for control is an interesting one.

We either do need control, in the context of 'things being under control', or we don't.

Personaly I cannot see how taking control, creating order out of chaos, is a bad thing. Particularly if the consequences of allowing chaos to reign are far worse than the consequences of taking control, even by extreme measures.

A need to feel in control is an entirely different thing though ..

That can lead to people creating chaos out of order on the rather convoluted basis that they can't control order, so being the causer of chaos is the only thing that gives them the feeling of control that they need.

 

[yakherder]

I don't know if saying someone "needs to be abused" is the right way to put it, but I saw in my ex-wife a similar situation to that mentioned a few posts ago. Despite the violence in my past from childhood to my military days as an adult, I'm even tempered to a fault. Some people get angry when they shouldn't, while I seem incapable of getting angry when it would be a perfectly understandable response. Neither my son, my girlfriend (his mother), nor my ex-wife can claim to have seen me so much as raise my voice in anger. My girlfriend, being the rational, well adjusted person that she is, is okay with this. My ex-wife, who was abused as a kid in a country and society where it is seen as the norm, was not. She would get upset and yell and scream at me over the simplest things. My reaction ranged from simply walking away to grabbing her and tickling her until she had no choice but to laugh hysterically. In either case, I don't waste my time trying to reason with people in a state of amygdalae hijack, nor do I sit around listening to it. The problem was that she felt resentful that I never treated her like **** in return. She'd lash out at me, then eventually regain her sanity, then feel like an *** for being the only one of us to act in such a manner. She did indeed tell me on several occasions that she wished I'd yell back or even beat her in return. This wasn't because she WANTED to be abused, it was because being the only one who couldn't control her temper made her feel inferior and she wanted to be on equal grounds with me. She eventually cheated on me with someone whom we both knew to be an anger prone ******* and we divorced. It wasn't long until she was calling me (her ex-husband) asking for my advice on how to deal with her abusive boyfriend (the guy she cheated on me with). It just seemed so comical to me in a sad sort of way. I knew his nature long before she cheated on me with him, as did she. Yet she went for him nonetheless.

Again, I don't think she enjoyed being abused, wanted it, or needed it in the traditional sense of the word, but it provided something that helped her deal with her own issues (which she didn't even know she had).

 

[Moll Flanders]

My ex-wife, who was abused as a kid in a country and society where it is seen as the norm, was not. She would get upset and yell and scream at me over the simplest things. My reaction ranged from simply walking away to grabbing her and tickling her until she had no choice but to laugh hysterically. In either case, I don't waste my time trying to reason with people in a state of amygdalae hijack, nor do I sit around listening to it. The problem was that she felt resentful that I never treated her like **** in return. She'd lash out at me, then eventually regain her sanity, then feel like an *** for being the only one of us to act in such a manner. She did indeed tell me on several occasions that she wished I'd yell back or even beat her in return. This wasn't because she WANTED to be abused, it was because being the only one who couldn't control her temper made her feel inferior and she wanted to be on equal grounds with me.

That is a fairly common psychological reaction to serious childhood abuse as she lashed out at you as she saw you as safe. Was she able to access any support?

 

[yakherder]

That is a fairly common psychological reaction to serious childhood abuse as she lashed out at you as she saw you as safe. Was she able to access any support?

I know she ended up talking to some type of counselor. If it was about the abuse and whether or not she stuck with it I'm unsure. We still talk sometimes, but we've been divorced and distanced for about 4 years now. At any rate, she did finally leave the guy and is currently back to finishing her degree. If the support didn't help, hopefully the entry level sociology classes will at least give her a scientific basis as to the origin and nature of her issues. She sure wouldn't listen to me on the topic.

 

[ledboots]

Yakherder, I always like you and reading your interesting, upfront posts.

I just have to say that tickling someone who is angry with you and assumedly smaller than you seems like abusive behavior.

 

[yakherder]

I just have to say that tickling someone who is angry with you and assumedly smaller than you seems like abusive behavior.

Perhaps, but it's fun and doesn't leave any marks as evidence. So what can anyone really do about it?

 

[Mischief]

Self reflection?

Oh, the luxuries of being childless!

You don't self-reflect when your a parent, Mischeif.

You're making the all too common mistake of assuming that what's true of yourself is true of others.

 

[das_nut]

That is a fairly common psychological reaction to serious childhood abuse as she lashed out at you as she saw you as safe. Was she able to access any support?

Abuse gets a lot more uncomfortable when you read the literature and you realize that it's not really black & white - there's a cycle of abuse, and abusers often were abused as children. So in this situation, she could have engaged in verbal abuse because when she was little, she frequently witnessed it.

 

[Mischief]

Most of the people I know well were abused in childhood and/or grew up in households where one adult abused the other.

None of them grew up to become abusers themselves, although some have had a history of being in abusive relationships.

Growing up in an abusive environment, whether the abuse is directed at others in the household or at you or both, definitely ****s with you psychologically, but most people seem to end up punishing themselves rather than others as a result of that kind of start to life.

 

[Clueless Git]

I think, from your post, we are quite different personalities Yakherder.

Apart from that our experiences are remarkably similar.

Sorry you had to go through all that mate, really.

 

[Clueless Git]

You're making the all too common mistake of assuming that what's true of yourself is true of others.

I hope that's not infectious.

 

[das_nut]

Most of the people I know well were abused in childhood and/or grew up in households where one adult abused the other.

None of them grew up to become abusers themselves, although some have had a history of being in abusive relationships.

Growing up in an abusive environment, whether the abuse is directed at others in the household or at you or both, definitely ****s with you psychologically, but most people seem to end up punishing themselves rather than others as a result of that kind of start to life.

Not everyone will become abusers or abuse victims. But it does seem to be a risk factor.

 

[Mischief]

Not everyone will become abusers or abuse victims. But it does seem to be a risk factor.

I'm not sure what I said that made you think I was arguing this point?

I find it interesting how the same/very similar set of childhood circumstances "turns" one person into an abuser, while others internalize the pain of those experiences and punish themselves in one way or another (not necessarily by becoming the victims of future abusive relationships).

 

[Wolfie]

I'm not sure what I said that made you think I was arguing this point?

I find it interesting how the same/very similar set of childhood circumstances "turns" one person into an abuser, while others internalize the pain of those experiences and punish themselves in one way or another (not necessarily by becoming the victims of future abusive relationships).

I've known of people who do both.

 

[Mischief]

I've known of people who do both.

True, that happens too.

 

[kazyeeqen]

I'm currently feeling a lot of feelings on this matter, as my emotionally abusive boss was recently fired and blames me for it. He, and his wife, left a very unkind letter for me, along with a quilt I made for their wedding, which they destroyed. It was hurtful, but I'm glad he did that, because it was a good opportunity for me to reflect on my own self-esteem and why I let him treat me badly for so long. I certainly won't let it happen again. And his behavior was subtle, so harder to recognize for the abuse it was.