Abusive relationships; Any 'winners'?

[Clueless Git]

A long time ago, in an entirely different topic, it was posited that only the abusive partner in any abusive relationship is, quote, "a pathetic loser".

(That may, or may not, have been entirely dependant on the abusive partner being male. That was never clarified.)

Does anyone who would not qualify as the rather unkindly put 'pathetic loser' ever get into an abusive relationship in the first place?

If so, how so?

Can either partner in an abusive relationship in any way be seen as a 'winner'?

If not then how can it be possible for an abusive relationship to consist of anything but two 'pathetic losers'?

If an abusive relation can only consist of two 'pathetic losers' then is there any reason why one of those pathetic losers deserves more help/sympathy/support for their particular problem(s) than the other?


Not all questions need to be answered in one go, obviously ...

 

[yakherder]

Interesting question. I'd say that the motivations of someone who feels the need to be abusive are not the same as everyone else. Thus, for a well adjusted person without self esteem issues interfering with their decision making process, and who would prefer a stable relationship over the feeling of control, being abusive would be irrational and pointless. If, on the other hand, your goal is to create a situation where you feel in control to account for other emotional issues, then a stable relationship might seem pointless.

As for who deserves help, I think those in the position to give it typically favor giving it to the underdog. Then again, there are anger management classes out there.

 

[Clueless Git]

Interesting question. I'd say that the motivations of someone who feels the need to be abusive are not the same as everyone else. Thus, for a well adjusted person without self esteem issues interfering with their decision making process, and who would prefer a stable relationship over the feeling of control, being abusive would be irrational and pointless. If, on the other hand, your goal is to create a situation where you feel in control to account for other emotional issues, then a stable relationship might seem pointless.

That is the single best summing up of an abusive partners physche I have seen in a long while.

Question; You obviously recognise that some feel the need to be abusive.

Do you think that some people actualy feel the need to be abused?

 

[Clueless Git]

As for who deserves help, I think those in the position to give it typically favor giving it to the underdog.

Crap analogy coming up ...

Is that logic (not saying its your logic) not akin to constantly tending injured chickens in favour of sorting out the fox who is loose in the pen?

 

[Clueless Git]

Then again, there are anger management classes out there.

Has anyone ever tried explaining to an angry person that they need to go one of them?

 

[Second Summer]

Do you think that some people actualy feel the need to be abused?

That's what Annie Lennox seems to be saying in the song "Sweet Dreams".

Sweet dreams are made of this
Who am I to disagree?
I travel the world and the seven seas
Everybody's looking for something

Some of them want to use you
Some of them want to get used by you
Some of them want to abuse you
Some of them want to be abused
[...]

It's a catchy song, but I don't agree. Some people have a desire to be in control, but they don't have to become abusive to meet that desire. Likewise, some people have a desire to be controlled, to have someone else make decisions for them, but they don't have to be abused to meet that desire. Maybe they don't know any other way to meet these desires than to be part of abusive relationships, but that doesn't mean they really want the abusive element of these relationships. Well, I'm no expert in the labyrinths and variations of the human psyche, so I could be wrong.

 

[yakherder]

Crap analogy coming up ...

Is that logic (not saying its your logic) not akin to constantly tending injured chickens in favour of sorting out the fox who is loose in the pen?

I think that's actually a fairly accurate analogy, but only if we expand on it a bit. In regards to sorting out the fox, you basically have two options. You can grab the shotgun and simply remove the fox as a problem (sending the abuser to jail or worse), or you can sympathize with it and try to find it an alternative way to satisfy its needs (anger management). Option one is by far the easiest way to solve the problem for the chickens, at least until another fox comes along. I suppose a third option would be to build a better pen and hope the fox goes and preys on someone else's chickens.

 

[ledboots]

The abuser is the one breaking the law and raising his hand to someone weaker. The one being abused needs help; the abuser can go get help or get locked up. I'm not feeling sorry for anyone feels he "must abuse" someone, and I'm not blaming the victim for not being strong enough to get out.

It is your fault for abusing someone weaker than you, and you're not getting a pass because she "asked for it" or "needs it" or "keeps on until I have to hit her." Walk away like a man.

 

[Clueless Git]

Well, I'm no expert in the labyrinths and variations of the human psyche, so I could be wrong.

I think, at a level, you are fundamentaly right, IS.

If no one, neither abuser nor abused, was operating below that level abusive relationships would not exist though.

 

[Clueless Git]

Option one is by far the easiest way to solve the problem for the chickens, at least until another fox comes along.

Aye, one of the flaws with the analogy is that chickens do not seek relationships with foxes.

Men seek relationships with women though and likewise women with men.

It really leaves the easiest solution for the chickens as being absolutely no solution to the problem at all.

 

[Clueless Git]

The abuser is the one breaking the law and raising his hand to someone weaker.

If you think a weaker person cannot abuse a stronger person then you really know nothing about abuse at all.

You may not be aware but your post was absolutely raddled with clues that you see no possibility of the victim of abuse ever being male, btw.

 

[Freesia]

If not then how can it be possible for an abusive relationship to consist of anything but two 'pathetic losers'?

If an abusive relation can only consist of two 'pathetic losers' then is there any reason why one of those pathetic losers deserves more help/sympathy/support for their particular problem(s) than the other?

Oh dear god.

 

[Clueless Git]

I think the debate forum is for debating stuff in Freesia.

 

[beancounter]

Mod Post
Everyone, please keep the following rule in mind.

2.Avoid posting “empty” or useless responses, such as ”lol” or ”cool, etc.” Only post responses when you have something to contribute.

 

[das_nut]

I think an individual who is or was in an abusive relationship could usually benefit from therapy.

To stay in an abusive relationship isn't a sign of good mental health. Such an individual may feel poor self-esteem, lack of support, and/or have an unhealthy view of what a "normal" relationship should be.

 

[Moll Flanders]

Has anyone ever tried explaining to an angry person that they need to go one of them?

Yes.

I used to work at a homeless centre and a couple of the men staying there attended behavioural therapy classes to try and control their anger issues. Some people will try and accept support when offered or try and help themselves.

 

[Mischief]

I seem to recall at least one other thread where you have attempted to justify your history (ongoing?) role as an abuser, Clueless Git.

Since you're speaking from personal experience, maybe you can answer your question about the usefulness of therapy. Have you ever been in therapy for your violence?

 

[IamJen]

"Do you think that some people actualy feel the need to be abused?"

While it's patently obvious that some people are more likely to enter into abusive relationships (not just romantic ones, but work-related, etc. too), I worry that comments like this skirt the line of victim blaming. He/she "needs to be abused", so they are looking for it, responsible, etc. Getting the crap beat out of you by a partner is never your fault.

 

[Clueless Git]

I seem to recall at least one other thread where you have attempted to justify your history (ongoing?) role as an abuser, Clueless Git.

My children are grown now Mischeif.

I have the luxury now, that if a relationship doesn't suit me, I can just walk away.

Just did exactly that but not before *****-slapping someone on the way out, obviously.

 

[Clueless Git]

"Do you think that some people actualy feel the need to be abused?"

While it's patently obvious that some people are more likely to enter into abusive relationships (not just romantic ones, but work-related, etc. too), I worry that comments like this skirt the line of victim blaming.

I understand that problem identification can look like victim blaming when if the victim is part of the problem is being explored.

He/she "needs to be abused", so they are looking for it, responsible, etc. Getting the crap beat out of you by a partner is never your fault.

You can believe this or not ...

I once made an ex cry by refusing her 'abuse'..

Exact words "You don't love me! You won't hit me anymore .."

If that sounds too sick to be made up that's because it is.