Why do working class people vote for the far right?

[Second Summer]

I have recently heard about Bernie Sanders going to campaign in some deeply red states (*), which mainstream Democrats have largely given up on, and actually having a fair amount of success. But this shouldn't be surprising because Sanders has of course always been trying to improve the lives of working class people, and I'm going to assume these states have large numbers of working class people.

However, the reality is that many of these working class people are also more than happy to vote for far right candidates, and they might even flip and flop between supporting the far right and socialist candidates from one election to the next.

So, the question I'm left with is: What is the appeal of the far right to the working class?

I'm reminded of a review of Hitler's Mein Kampf written by the one and only George Orwell back in 1940:

Also he has grasped the falsity of the hedonistic attitude to life. Nearly all western thought since the last war, certainly all "progressive" thought, has assumed tacitly that human beings desire nothing beyond ease, security and avoidance of pain. In such a view of life there is no room, for instance, for patriotism and the military virtues. The Socialist who finds his children playing with soldiers is usually upset, but he is never able to think of a substitute for the tin soldiers; tin pacifists somehow won't do. Hitler, because in his own joyless mind he feels it with exceptional strength, knows that human beings don't only want comfort, safety, short working-hours, hygiene, birth-control and, in general, common sense; they also, at least intermittently, want struggle and self-sacrifice, not to mention drums, flags and loyalty-parades. However they may be as economic theories, Fascism and Nazism are psychologically far sounder than any hedonistic conception of life. The same is probably true of Stalin's militarised version of Socialism. All three of the great dictators have enhanced their power by imposing intolerable burdens on their peoples. Whereas Socialism, and even capitalism in a more grudging way, have said to people "I offer you a good time," Hitler has said to them "I offer you struggle, danger and death," and as a result a whole nation flings itself at his feet. Perhaps later on they will get sick of it and change their minds, as at the end of the last war. After a few years of slaughter and starvation "Greatest happiness of the greatest number" is a good slogan, but at this moment "Better an end with horror than a horror without end" is a winner. Now that we are fighting against the man who coined it, we ought not to underrate its emotional appeal.

George Orwell's Review of Mein Kampf : George Orwell : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

So what did George Orwell think of Adolf's infamous bestseller?For more books by George and other patriotic authors, visit the Christian Identity Forum.

archive.org

The US is probably not yet at the point where Trump can demand "struggle and self-sacrifice", but patriotism and the focus on the military are definite vote winners.

The left instead offers solidarity, both with fellow citizens and with citizens of other nations. While this appeals to some, I don't think those more pumped up on patriotism are as excited about solidarity for some reason. Maybe it's hard to believe your nation is all that exceptional - and by extension that you yourself is exceptional - if you also believe citizens of other nations are similar to you, as deserving of the good things in life etc? I'm not really sure.

Could the left have as much focus and excitement about the military? Maybe? Could this win more working class people over?

(*) I'm unsure if this was recently or some time in the past.

 

[Lou]

I wish I knew the answer to your question.

A lot of text have been generated in answering that question.

And it's not a primarily American issue. or a contemporary issue. You even included Hitler as an example. Not just in the 30s but even today the right has gained popularity and votes by somehow appealing to the working class. Both in America and in Europe.

A lot of liberals, including myself attribute it to what I think is called "Duping". The leaders of the party mislead the people/voters.
Vote for me and I will (Fill in the blank). And they don't.

The main argument against duping is that many liberals, including myself, can't believe it actually works. And not just once but over and over again.

 

[Lou]

The main argument against duping is that many liberals, including myself, can't believe it actually works. And not just once but over and over again.

There are at least two counterarguments to that. The first is my favorite. Mark Twain maybe said it first, "Consider the average intelligence of the common man, then realize 50% are even stupider."

The second is very interesting, and based on something called fear of "the other". It has an evolutionary advantage and has been observed in primates. So it might even be in our DNA. A theory is that when right wing leaders point out Others as the cause for the people's problems, we are genetically predisposed to believe them.

​

 

[Mufflon]

The leaders of the party mislead the people/voters.
Vote for me and I will (Fill in the blank). And they don't.

That's what basically all parties/politicians are doing and it could explain that some people are vacillating between parties that seem to be the opposite: people vote for a party, the party doesn't hold up to their promises, therefore people vote for a different party next time. That party doesn't keep their promises as well so it's another party at the next election etc.

People feel duped by basically every party/politician. And rightly so.

 

[Lou]

People feel duped by basically every party/politician. And rightly so.

Yes but.. .
There are some other things going on,

I could probably list lots of examples but here are a few off the top of my head.
The Democrats are mostly supportive of Health Care. The Republicans are mostly against it. When a working class member votes republican he is voting against his own self interest.
The Democrats are mostly for increasing consumer protection. The Republicans are not. Again, the working class are voting against their own self interest.
And Demorcrats are more in favor of economic equity The Republican want to lower taxes for the wealthy. I'm sure we can add to this list but I think three examples are enough for going on.

The big question is why do the working class vote against their own self interests. Trump claims the democrats are soft on illegal immigration. soft on crime. weak on foreign policy. weak on terrorism. . Without much evidence. He fear mongers. which is something the right wing has a long history of doing.

.

 

[Mufflon]

The big question is why do the working class vote against their own self interests.

I doubt that people are voting against there own interests. It's just that maybe one can't see them at first glance. So I'm asking myself two questions here:

1) Did the Democrats maybe not keep their promises in the past and have therefore fallen from grace? Why vote for someone who promised and promised and promised - but failed to deliver every time?

2) What are the Republicans promising the workers that might be attractive to them?

Again: I don't think that people vote against their own interest. Why should they do such a thing?

 

[Second Summer]

The left instead offers solidarity, both with fellow citizens and with citizens of other nations. While this appeals to some, I don't think those more pumped up on patriotism are as excited about solidarity for some reason. Maybe it's hard to believe your nation is all that exceptional - and by extension that you yourself is exceptional - if you also believe citizens of other nations are similar to you, as deserving of the good things in life etc? I'm not really sure.

On second thought, I think this comes across as if I think patriotic people are unique in wanting to be exceptional. But that is not what I believe. In fact, I believe that's a relatively common psychological need.

 

[Lou]

People vote against their own interests ALL the time. I do it too.
For instance, I commonly voter for school bonds. Even though I have no kids in school. the school bonds will probably increase my rent .
however I know what I'm doing. I think more often people Unknowingly vote against their own interests.

look at all the red states that have voted to repeal Obama Care. Even though those are the states that most rely on it.
or all the people who vote for candidates who support cutting taxes on the wealthy. Although maybe they don' t realize that.

But as I think about this I think the biggest thing is Fear Of Other. People who are afraid that their kids may become trans if they go to a Woke school, People who are afraid they will lose their jobs to immigrants. Or their company will move over seas because it pays too many taxes here .

 

[Andy_T]

1) Did the Democrats maybe not keep their promises in the past and have therefore fallen from grace? Why vote for someone who promised and promised and promised - but failed to deliver every time?

That is certainly true, but nobody, I repeat, nobody, ever so dramatically failed to deliver a single thing they promised as Dump did.

With a few notable exceptions that might make all the difference to his most ardent fans:
- He managed to stack the courts - not only the supreme court, but also other lower courts - with right-wingers
- He made racism and bigotry acceptable and mainstream
- He hurt the people they perceive as enemies (and everybody else, including themselves, but especially those)

 

[silva]

This guy breaks it down better than I could, and I'm in full agreement--

 

[Mufflon]

That is certainly true, but nobody, I repeat, nobody, ever so dramatically failed to deliver a single thing they promised as Dump did.

And yet there were enough people voting for him a second time. Why is that? There are two reasons I can think of:

1) What you listed as "failing to deliver" was exactly what a lot of people wanted for whatever reason.

2) They hated Biden/Harris even more than Trump.

 

[Mufflon]

People vote against their own interests ALL the time. I do it too.
For instance, I commonly voter for school bonds. Even though I have no kids in school. the school bonds will probably increase my rent .
however I know what I'm doing. I think more often people Unknowingly vote against their own interests.

How is the voting against your own interests? I don't have kids either but I'm all for investing in schools/university because it's necessary for the future, including my own.

In Germany there is lot of rage in regards to Boomers voting only for their own generation and not for those coming after them. Now that is voting against their own interests because when the social security system goes down the drain, their retirement payments and health care will go down the drain, too.

 

[Lou]

How is the voting against your own interests? I don't have kids either but I'm all for investing in schools/university because it's necessary for the future, including my own.

In Germany there is lot of rage in regards to Boomers voting only for their own generation and not for those coming after them. Now that is voting against their own interests because when the social security system goes down the drain, their retirement payments and health care will go down the drain, too.

Yeah, you are right ... but...
I guess the thing is what I said. about "knowingly"
When I vote for school stuff and it raises my taxes - I do that knowingly.
When a senior votes against those things to avoid paying taxes - but not realizing that its good for the Next Generation - I think that is unknowingly
In the USA when a red state votes against Obama Care - because they are idiots - I'm going to call that unknowingly voting against their own interests.

 

[Ahimsa24/7]

Once upon a time in America people voted for candidates who demonstrated intelligence, via the degrees they had earned and the manner in which they spoke. During Obama's campaigns, this was a problem for the right. A very well-spoken man who attended Harvard Law School ... how do we defeat him? The answer: vilify intellectuals and higher education. They are trying to trick you with their fancy explanations, and they want to indoctrinate your kids at their colleges (which are, by and large, really quite liberal, I say as an American college professor). So suddenly, being well-educated was presented as a negative to voters who had lower levels of education. Donald Trump presents himself as an individual with "street smarts" and "common sense", not "book smarts" (which are supposedly of little real-world value) who crudely says whatever is on his mind (and often what those who eventually formed his formidable base were "thinking themselves but afraid to say" because of dreaded political correctness). Anti-intellectualism now pervades our society, resulting not only in Trump and all his off-shoots, but in anti-vaxers who are helping to bring back maladies we thought we had wiped out.

 

[Mufflon]

When a senior votes against those things to avoid paying taxes - but not realizing that its good for the Next Generation - I think that is unknowingly

This is something I'm not so sure of.

In the USA when a red state votes against Obama Care - because they are idiots

There might be a lot of egoism involved ("I've got mine, what do I care for others who don't!!") - tbh I think that's the case with a lot of German boomers. Of course not all of them, just as not all people in a red state voted against Obama care.

I mean - when 60% vote for something you still have 40% voting against it.

 

[Lou]

I mean - when 60% vote for something you still have 40% voting against it.

Sure. there was an interesting take on that, let me see if I can say it right.
six out of ten is a big win. but just change one mind and its 5 out of ten. A tie. A dead heat. change and more mind and it's an upset.

In modern times margins just keep getting smaller. For example in the US Presidential elections it's been over 50 years since a President defeated his opponent by more than 20% (and that was Nixon- and he cheated). In more recent times the margins are absurdly tight. For the last 40 years Presidents only get single digit margins.

These small margins are indicative of a divided nation.

 

[Emma JC]

I agree with @Lou and voting against best interests - eg Department of Education and the gutting of it...

youtube videos occasionally pop up of a college age guy asking other college age people questions like - what is 3 cubed, what is 3x3x3, what is 9+9+9, what is 6x7, how many dimes in a dollar, how many minutes are there in a quarter of an hour (standard answer is 25), name 3 countries outside of North America, how many continents are there, where is the Eiffel Tower located, in which country is the Panana canal located - most cannot answer any of the questions correctly........ horrifying

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[Second Summer]

youtube videos occasionally pop up of a college age guy asking other college age people questions like - what is 3 cubed, what is 3x3x3, what is 9+9+9, what is 6x7, how many dimes in a dollar, how many minutes are there in a quarter of an hour (standard answer is 25), name 3 countries outside of North America, how many continents are there, where is the Eiffel Tower located, in which country is the Panana canal located - most cannot answer any of the questions correctly........ horrifying

I wouldn't necessarily trust that these kinds of videos show us the truth. It has more entertainment value if people are ignorant, so they show mostly only the ignorant people.

 

[Lou]

I wouldn't necessarily trust that these kinds of videos show us the truth. It has more entertainment value if people are ignorant, so they show mostly only the ignorant people.

True, but some times when you put people on the spot they become stupid.

 

[Emma JC]

both of those things are true and they do show some people that can answer some or all of the questions - take a moment and google worldwide literacy and education levels - my heart aches for these generations of young people of whom a percentage are stuck in a silo and that makes it very challenging to break out later

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com