US US-Saudi and 9/11 bill fallout

[robert99]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/16/w...mic-fallout-if-congress-passes-9-11-bill.html
Saudi Arabia has told the Obama administration and members of Congress that it will sell off hundreds of billions of dollars’ worth of American assets held by the kingdom if Congress passes a bill that would allow the Saudi government to be held responsible in American courts for any role in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

The Obama administration has lobbied Congress to block the bill’s passage, according to administration officials and congressional aides from both parties, and the Saudi threats have been the subject of intense discussions in recent weeks between lawmakers and officials from the State Department and the Pentagon. The officials have warned senators of diplomatic and economic fallout from the legislation.

Adel al-Jubeir, the Saudi foreign minister, delivered the kingdom’s message personally last month during a trip to Washington, telling lawmakers that Saudi Arabia would be forced to sell up to $750 billion in treasury securities and other assets in the United States before they could be in danger of being frozen by American courts.

Several outside economists are skeptical that the Saudis will follow through, saying that such a sell-off would be difficult to execute and would end up crippling the kingdom’s economy. But the threat is another sign of the escalating tensions between Saudi Arabia and the United States.

The administration, which argues that the legislation would put Americans at legal risk overseas, has been lobbying so intently against the bill that some lawmakers and families of Sept. 11 victims are infuriated. In their view, the Obama administration has consistently sided with the kingdom and has thwarted their efforts to learn what they believe to be the truth about the role some Saudi officials played in the terrorist plot.

“It’s stunning to think that our government would back the Saudis over its own citizens,” said Mindy Kleinberg, whose husband died in the World Trade Center on Sept. 11 and who is part of a group of victims’ family members pushing for the legislation.

President Obama will arrive in Riyadh on Wednesday for meetings with King Salman and other Saudi officials. It is unclear whether the dispute over the Sept. 11 legislation will be on the agenda for the talks.

(Senator Bob Graham's book Intelligence Matters is worth a read and see Complete 911 Timeline

 

[Capstan]

Responsibility for the events of 9/11 ultimately must fall on ourselves (the US.) We invaded Arabia generations before Arabia ever invaded us. The US government has no interest in justice. (If it did, it would have to lock up half its own membership.) The bill is a misguided attempt to expand the US/Arab War to include the Saudis as an enemy, to shift their status from one of an ally to one of a combatant. In the long term, of course, this has the potential to generate tremendous profits for our military contractors. It's time the government thought about something, other than warfare.

 

[robert99]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/22/opinion/unfinished-business-from-9-11.html

Fourteen years after its completion, the full record of Congress’s investigation into the 9/11 attacks has not been published. Twenty-eight pages are still being withheld amid suspicions that what they contain could implicate the Saudi government and Saudi citizens in the terrorist strike.
...
The controversy comes at a time when Saudi-American relations have been badly shaken by disputes over Iran, Syria and other issues, as well as by American frustration with the Saudis’ longstanding embrace of Wahhabism, an extremist form of Islam that inspires Al Qaeda and the Islamic State.

Repairing troubled ties with Saudi Arabia, which cooperates closely with America on counterterrorism and security matters, requires that all the facts be known. The Saudis themselves have previously called for the release of the redacted pages. It’s past time to do that.

 

[robert99]

This won't go away ...
Saudi officials were 'supporting' 9/11 hijackers, commission member says
Saudi officials were 'supporting' 9/11 hijackers, commission member says

In fact, there were repeated showdowns, especially over the Saudis, between the staff and the commission’s hard-charging executive director, University of Virginia historian Philip Zelikow, who joined the Bush administration as a senior adviser to the secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, after leaving the commission. The staff included experienced investigators from the FBI, the Department of Justice and the CIA, as well as the congressional staffer who was the principal author of the 28 pages.

Zelikow fired a staffer, who had repeatedly protested over limitations on the Saudi investigation, after she obtained a copy of the 28 pages outside of official channels. Other staffers described an angry scene late one night, near the end of the investigation, when two investigators who focused on the Saudi allegations were forced to rush back to the commission’s offices after midnight after learning to their astonishment that some of the most compelling evidence about a Saudi tie to 9/11 was being edited out of the report or was being pushed to tiny, barely readable footnotes and endnotes. The staff protests were mostly overruled.

 

[robert99]

CIA Director John Brennan: Keep '28 Pages' of 9/11 Report Secret
Despite calls by congressmen and other U.S. officials to release a secret section of the 9/11 Commission Report, CIA Director John Brennan has said it should not be declassified, NBC News reports.
but ...
CIA chief expects release of 9/11 documents to clear Saudi Arabia
CIA chief says unreleased classified pages of 9/11 report will absolve Saudi Arabia of responsiblity
CIA chief John Brennan said on Sunday he expects 28 classified pages of a U.S. congressional report into the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the United States to be published, absolving Saudi Arabia of any responsibility.

"I think the 28 pages will be published and I support their publication and everyone will see the evidence that the Saudi government had nothing to do with it," Brennan said in an interview with Saudi-owned Arabiya TV. His comments were dubbed into Arabic.

(has someone been doing some "editing" of the 28 pages? )

 

[robert99]

PressTV-Congress allows 9/11 victims to sue S Arabia
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/10/us/politics/house-911-victims-saudi-arabia.html
The House on Friday approved a bill to allow families of those killed in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks to sue Saudi Arabia for any role in the terrorist plot, setting up a rare bipartisan showdown with the White House.

The measure was never debated on the House or Senate floors. It reflects a growing desire to re-examine Washington’s alliance with the kingdom, which for decades has been a cornerstone of American foreign policy in the Middle East. Other measures, like a bipartisan one that would seek to block the sale of some tanks to the kingdom, are also on the horizon.

But President Obama says he is strongly opposed to the measure and the White House has signaled that he would veto it.

Lawmakers felt intense pressure from families of the victims of the attacks, who wanted the legislation passed before the 15th anniversary of 9/11 on Sunday. That may account for the bill jumping from a committee room to an expedited vote on the House floor.
(Things could get interesting )

 

[robert99]

PressTV-US Senate overrides Obama’s 9/11 bill veto
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/29/u...override-obama-veto-on-9-11-victims-bill.html

An overwhelming majority in Congress on Wednesday overturned President Obama’s veto of legislation that would allow families of those killed in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks to sue Saudi Arabia for any role in the plot, the first successful override vote of his presidency.

The 9/11 override is a remarkable yet complicated bipartisan rebuttal, even as some its supporters conceded that they did not fully support the legislation they had just voted for. Mr. Obama and his allies vowed to find a way to tweak the legislation later.

In recent days, Mr. Obama, Defense Secretary Ashton B. Carter and General Joseph F. Dunford Jr., the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, all wrote letters to Congress warning of the dangers of overriding the veto.

“This is a decision I do not take lightly,” said Senator Chuck Schumer, Democrat of New York and one of the authors of this legislation. “This bill is near and dear to my heart as a New Yorker, because it would allow the victims of 9/11 to pursue some small measure of justice, finally giving them a legal avenue to pursue foreign sponsors of the terrorist attack that took from them the lives of their loved ones.”

Only one senator, Harry Reid, Democrat of Nevada, siding with the president as 97 others voted Wednesday to override. In the House, the veto override was approved a few hours later, 348 to 77.
...
Saudi Arabia has warned the Obama administration and members of Congress that the law could force them to sell off hundreds of billions of dollars’ worth of American assets to avoid them from being seized in court settlements. Next came the argument, made by the kingdom’s phalanx of lobbyists, that the law would expose the United States to lawsuits abroad and possibly cause complications for its armed forces.

 

[robert99]

US widow sues Saudi Arabia over 9/11 terror attack
A woman widowed when her husband was killed at the Pentagon on Sept. 11, 2001 sued the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia just two days after Congress enacted legislation allowing Americans to sue foreign governments for allegedly playing a role in terrorist attacks on US soil.

Stephanie Ross DeSimone alleged the kingdom provided material support to al Qaeda and its leader, Osama bin Laden, in a complaint filed Friday at a US court in Washington. Her suit is also filed on behalf of the couple’s daughter. DeSimone was pregnant when Navy Commander Patrick Dunn was killed.
...
An official at Saudi Arabia’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs told the state-run Saudi Press Agency on September 29 that the US Congress must correct the 9/11 bill to avoid “serious unintended consequences,” adding the law is of “great concern” to the Kingdom.

DeSimone, who is suing for wrongful death and intentional infliction of emotional distress, is seeking unspecified compensatory and punitive damages.

see also BOOM! 9/11 Widow SUES Saudi Arabia For Aiding Terror ATTACK!

 

[Second Summer]

This isn't just about Saudi Arabia now. We know how keen US lawyers are on suing everyone under the sun, so it won't be long until there are lawsuits against a lot of other countries as well. It's not at all unthinkable that these countries will retaliate with similar lawsuits in their own courts against the US, and the seizing of US assets would soon follow.

 

[robert99]

Lawyers hit paydirt! Problems will occur when proof of evidence - eg A spy does something. Is it for himself or for his country? Or both?! No country will release classified info so there could be a lot more of the ol' "National Security" excuse. Denial, denial, denial.

 

[robert99]

Hijackers' time in Southern California at center of allegations of Saudi government involvement in 9/11 attacks
Saudi Arabia has repeatedly denied any direct or indirect support for Al Qaeda, the terrorist group that carried out the attacks, or any foreknowledge or involvement in the attacks that killed nearly 3,000 people in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania.
(We don't know if Al Qaeda did the attacks - Bin Laden said it was a dumb idea to attack the US mainland. Bin Laden had also his Saudi passport cancelled and was kicked out of the country.
In May 2002, FBI Director Robert Mueller noted that his organization had not uncovered a single piece of paper, "either here in the U.S. or in the treasure trove of information that has turned up in Afghanistan and elsewhere", that mentioned any aspect of the September 11th plot Responsibility for the September 11 attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
Eric Lewis, a lawyer for two Saudi charities that are also defendants in the lawsuit, said allegations that Saudi authorities supported Al Qaeda and the 2001 attacks “strikes me as ridiculous” since the terrorist group founded by Osama bin Laden previously had targeted the kingdom.

Either way, resolution of the lawsuit isn’t expected any time soon.

The case is before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit in New York City. But passage of the new law, called the Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act, could send it back to the Southern District of New York in lower Manhattan, where the lawyers may end up battling for years over release of classified material.

If the lawsuit prevails, U.S. courts could order the seizure of Saudi assets in the United States to pay the families. Saudi officials have warned they might need to sell off hundreds of billions of dollars in U.S. holdings in response.

 

[beancounter]

Election year politics. Once the election is over, they will quietly reverse it.

 

[Mischief]

This isn't just about Saudi Arabia now. We know how keen US lawyers are on suing everyone under the sun, so it won't be long until there are lawsuits against a lot of other countries as well. It's not at all unthinkable that these countries will retaliate with similar lawsuits in their own courts against the US, and the seizing of US assets would soon follow.

Agreed. This is going to have ramifications for the U.S. and U.S personnel.

Members of Congress voted for it because none of them have the backbone to explain to their constituents why it's a bad idea.

 

[robert99]

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/2016/10/03/Saudi-Cabinet-JASTA-weakens-sovereign-immunity.html
The enactment of US legislation on 9/11 weakening sovereign immunity will affect all countries, including the United States, the Saudi Cabinet said Monday.

It said the law contributes to the weakening of the principle of sovereign immunity, which has governed international relations for hundreds of years, in a statement carried by the state news agency SPA.

This it said, will have a “negative impact” on all nations, including the United States.

The cabinet also said Saudi Arabia hoped the US Congress would take necessary steps to avoid the ‘dangerous fallouts’ from the law,

The Saudi foreign ministry condemned the law’s passage on Thursday, saying the “erosion” of the principle of sovereign immunity would have a negative impact on all nations.

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/med...reactions-from-Saudi-figures-over-JASTA-.html
Saudi views about JASTA

 

[robert99]

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New.../Kerry-Jubeir-discuss-ways-to-fix-JASTA-.html
US Secretary of State John Kerry on Thursday discussed with his Saudi counterpart Adel al-Jubeir ways to “fix” the US Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act, known as JASTA, to limit its repercussion on US relations with its partners.

“We discussed ways to try to fix this in a way that respects and honors the needs and rights of victims of 9/11, but at the same time does not expose American troops and American individuals who may be involved in another country to the potential of losses,” Kerry said in a join conference.

JASTA grants an exception to the legal principle of sovereign immunity in cases of terrorism on US soil, clearing the way for lawsuits seeking damages from the Saudi government.