Trying again

[Luke]

Several years ago I took up the challenge to go vegan for 30 days, the results were just plain bad, went cold turkey whole foods vegan and felt like absolute garbage for nearly the entire month. Not sure if this was due to my life long blood glucose issues or the fact that ultra low fat vegan was the only "healthy" way to do it back then but it was not working for me at all. Started annual keto cycles and lost 30lbs 20 of which I have kept off for five years now but I cannot tolerate the side effects anymore namely the constipation, so I am considering a new dietary approach. Instead of going vegan cold turkey start substituting one thing at a time and see how low I can go before that nagging fatigue/depression kicks in again or if I can somehow avoid it all together. I have a few unique pros and cons to consider.

Cons.
1. I live in rural east Texas so no local support exists, I would be very much going at this alone as I don't even know any vegans in the area.
2. The remote area means that no specialty vegan foods are locally available other than tofu and even that is hit and miss.
3. I work doing security for a prison meat packing plant so temptation is ever present, I actually am not a big fan of meat but long hours with no lunch break makes anything smell good.
4. My long history of hypoglycemia makes it impossible for me to live on a diet that spikes my blood glucose because the rebound can be life threatening.

Pros.
1. I have no issue with high fiber diets, I eat large quantities of beans, oats, greens, and lintels with darn near every meal including breakfast with no issues.
2. Don't eat fast food anyway, McDonalds nearly killed me in Aug of 2008 when my blood glucose crashed so bad I went into seizures and I have not eaten it since, not even remotely tempted.
3. I can cook, not a grand master chef but I can count on one hand how many times I have eaten out in the past year because I can make better food than most resturants at home.
4. Not in love with meat anyway, for me meat is a flavoring for my beans I don't ear hamburgers or steaks. 1lbs of beef per 6qt pot of beans and greens which will feed me all week, and flavorings can be substituted. My biggest issue will be dairy since I cannot have sugar I eat my oats with unsweetened Greek yogurt and berries and that I do love.

If anyone has any pointers for making black beans, red lentils, and cold oats palatable without special vegan meat substitutes or loads of simple carbs any tips would be helpful.

 

[ewomack]

Congrats to you for trying again. Not giving up is what matters in the long run. I think the cold turkey method has ruined veganism for many people. It makes them think "it doesn't work for me" and they often never go back. I have no medical background, but my own experience suggests that the human body doesn't seem to appreciate sudden shocking changes of diet, so gradually weaning off one diet and slowly introducing another works better for some people. It did for me. My only suggestion, which seems to have occurred to you also, is to take it slowly. Start with trying to cut down on meat as much as you can stand and maintain that balance for a while. Then go further, etc. This approach, a gradual adjustment to a new way of eating, seems to have better staying power. I also found that, as I transitioned, foods that I once considered bland increasingly tasted better over time. When I cut out sugary sweets, over time fruits tasted amazing. Even the flavor of veggies burst out, since they no longer had to compete with foods designed to overstimulate the taste buds. Also, experiment with spices. I make a simple garbanzo bean meal that uses only 4 spices and tastes great. I couldn't eat it for every meal, but it does great in rotation. I'm to the point where I will throw cans of various beans into a pot, cook them, add some salt and just eat them as-is. Again, I couldn't eat it for every meal, but it suffices in rotation. Take things slowly and experiment. And allow yourself some "infractions." Completely denying yourself something that you crave will just tend to make the cravings worse. It takes time. Go easy on yourself and keep on target.

 

[Emma JC]

welcome back to the forum

It took my honey and I a few tries before we were able to stick to it and it has been 6 1/2 years now. It may be slightly easier for us as we are very much Starchivores and so eat lots of rice, potatoes, pasta, breads, noodles with tons of veggies, beans, berries, bananas etc. We are also very big on spices and items like onions, garlic, jalapenos appears in almost every meal. We also love Butler Soy Curls and you can find those online and so between those and Gardein and Field Roast we eat well and agree with your principle of eating/cooking at home as our meals are way better than any restaurant.

All the best with your journey and remember to eat enough calories... it is the main reason that people eating whole food, for the first time, lose energy as you can eat soooo much more food when it doesn't have the calories that oils/meats have per square inch.

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[Sax]

A gradual transition is what worked for me, cooking my usual recipes but with less meat and more veggies until I was vegetarian, then less dairy/eggs. I didn't worry about trace amounts of animal products in processed food for a while after that.

What is motivating you to transition? It might be helpful to dive into that...read books, watch documentaries, find some vegan youtube channels you like.

 

[silva]

I agree on the easing into it as much as you need. I was vegetarian in my teens, but through the years with different lifestyle changes, I had many setbacks, till now that I actually AM vegan. I no longer "think". In many ways it was like giving up cigarettes for me! Esp the cheese....
I also would recommend keeping this to yourself until avoiding things feels more normal for you. When people know you're making a change they can often pull you when you have a craving, where if they didn't know you could avoid giving in

What kinds of tastes and foods do you like? It's so hard to recommend to others.
I absolutely recommend an Instant Pot, if it's just yourself a three quart may be perfect. It's so easy to cook beans, root veggies, soups, and even make soy yogurt to strain if you want
I do find immersing myself in audio books and podcasts on nutrition helps me stay on track. I love to be a junk food vegan!

Exam Room Podcast

A Podcast Examining Vegan Nutrition and Medical News The Exam Room™ is the ultimate vegan podcast from the Physicians Committee. Dr. Neal Barnard, a real-life rock star and authority on plant-based living, motivates and inspires the vegan-curious and those who have been plant-powered for life...

www.pcrm.org

and of course anything by Dr Greger!

I also find these are my top two --

Amazon.com

Whole: Rethinking the Science of Nutrition: Campbell, T. Colin, Jacobson, Howard: 9781939529848: Amazon.com: Books

Whole: Rethinking the Science of Nutrition [Campbell, T. Colin, Jacobson, Howard] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Whole: Rethinking the Science of Nutrition

www.amazon.com

 

[Lou]

hi, Welcome to the forum.
And congrats for becoming vegan

Several years ago I took up the challenge to go vegan for 30 days,

I'm guessing that you went into this not only cold turkey but with little guidance. So although coming here for advice is a super good idea, even better would be to re-start your vegan journey with some more formal guidance. Coincidently, there is a book called the 30 Day Vegan Challenge, by Goudreaux. It has just gone to its 2nd edition and been reprinted. The first edition can easily be found in the library and used book stores. Try to find a copy and take it home and read it and then start it.

Goudreau's strategy is NOT cold turkey. It is gradual and incremental.

There is also an online program by the same author. I did it back when it was free. BTW, it's great. It now costs $40. It's probably worth it but there are many programs almost as good for free.

What I loved about the program and the book was that it was pretty much idiot proof. Just follow the directions. Also it focused not just on diet but the whole lifestyle. So many new vegans have non-diet issues like going out to eat and social situations. Those are all covered as well. The online program is really great because it incorporates videos, podcasts, and essays. I still remember two of the videos. In one she takes you out grocery shopping. And in the other she goes out to dinner and takes you with her.

Alternately, another great online program is called the 21 Day Vegan Kickstart. It's super organized. And it's free. I also like that it uses a variety teaching techniques. Essays, videos, audio lectures. Plus recipes. When I did (just for fun) it has social media component too. So it was sort of like a class in that you had classmates to talk to. Or you can use this forum for the social media aspect.

There is also the book, Eat To Live, by Dr. Joel Fuhrman. It concentrates on the diet aspect of the plant based diet. It has a plan that is at least a couple of weeks long. At some point you should read it. or instead you can read How Not To Die by Gregar.

Those are just the three programs I have done. But there are dozens of others.

Now I'll try to comment on your pros and cons one at a time

1. I live in rural east Texas so no local support exists, I would be very much going at this alone as I don't even know any vegans in the area.

Just another good reason to do one of the guided approaches. I'm not sure the Kick Start still has the social media aspect - but if not - you have dozens of people right here who like me are glad to help.

2. The remote area means that no specialty vegan foods are locally available other than tofu and even that is hit and miss.

Good news, no specialty vegan food are really necessary.
I buy a lot of soy milk and tofu. but if you have to you can just buy soybeans and make your own soymilk and tofu. Other than that you just need a regular super market to buy your veggies, grains, nuts, and seeds.
And if you can get Amazon delivered it's amazing what you can get on Amazon. You can even buy redi-packs of soy milk and have them delivered on a regular schedule.

Oh, and there is also the Thrive Market which has everything you could possible want and delivered.

3. I work doing security for a prison meat packing plant so temptation is ever present, I actually am not a big fan of meat but long hours with no lunch break makes anything smell good.

Prison meat packing plant??!!
Boy if anything - that should put you off meat.
long hours with no lunch break sounds like a workplace violation - but maybe they do things different in East Texas.
But IMHO the solution is snacking. Back in the day when I had a very busy day I would make a dozen PB &Js, freeze them, cut them in quarters. Then take a bunch with me to work. They defrost pretty fast. then just whenever I can, grab a quarter and eat it while walking to my next assignment. I also would make smoothies and freeze them and take them with me to sip all day long. or when you get a minute you can just chug one.
I have lots of ideas like that if you need some more.

4. My long history of hypoglycemia makes it impossible for me to live on a diet that spikes my blood glucose because the rebound can be life threatening.

I'm not an expert on this so take this with a grain of salt but a lot of WFPB food are high in fiber which slows down the digestion so your blood sugar doesn't spike. Also portion management always helps. so a quarter PB&J. or just a sip of a smoothie should not only keep your blood sugars level but also help with hunger

Pros.

Don't have to go thru your Pros one by one. Sounds great.

If anyone has any pointers for making black beans, red lentils, and cold oats palatable without special vegan meat substitutes or loads of simple carbs any tips would be helpful.

Here at the forum we have hundreds of recipes. The search tool is a little wonky but it mostly works.

I have a tool called Copy Me That where I collect my online recipes and you can look me up - I'm Lou2005.

But there are three that I can recommend right off the top of my head.

Vegan Cuban Black Beans - Crowded Kitchen

Vegan Lentil Mushroom Stew with Mashed Sweet Potatoes - Instant Pot or Stovetop - Vegan Richa

Best Overnight Oats For Weight Loss – 7 Ways!

--------------------------------------------

Amazon.com

THE 30-DAY VEGAN CHALLENGE (Online Program) – Colleen Patrick-Goudreau

The 21-Day Vegan Kickstart Program Launches With New Website and Phone App

https://www.amazon.com/Silk-Unsweetened-Unflavored-Dairy-Alternative-Individually/dp/B004HK7NT0/ref=sxts_rp_s_a_1_0?content-id=amzn1.sym.eff26b9b-e255-411b-a40d-eccb21f93fe4%3Aamzn1.sym.eff26b9b-e255-411b-a40d-eccb21f93fe4&crid=S0YQQS4MJT8Q&cv_ct_cx=soy+milk&keywords=soy+milk&pd_rd_i=B004HK7NT0&pd_rd_r=55f6e2f4-012a-45d2-bf9b-fdb1ba2e8bed&pd_rd_w=NtWKU&pd_rd_wg=lNyGi&pf_rd_p=eff26b9b-e255-411b-a40d-eccb21f93fe4&pf_rd_r=N8YXJQGAB4YP05RABKNV&qid=1678036267&sprefix=soy+milk%2Caps%2C172&sr=1-1-5985efba-8948-4f09-9122-d605505c9d1e

Thrive Market | Healthy living made easy

Copy Me That

 

[Luke]

Thanks everyone for the input and recopies, I have already cut meat consumption roughly 80% in the past two weeks by stretching it considerably with legumes, mushrooms, and greens now I am plotting my next step which is to start doing vegan supper every evening, I did kale and red lentils today, not my finest work but there is a leaning curve to this for sure, did not taste bad just a little bland despite all the seasonings, might try that again with a little added oil and make it more of a stir fry rather than just steaming it and probably using more lintels since that 1/4 cup simply does not have enough calories. keep the suggestions coming I am going to make a trip into town here in the next few days and pick up some supplies.

 

[Lou]

my number one go to dinner is a stir fry.

It took me a while to learn how to do it right.
the thing that took me the longest to learn is that it has to be done on High. and you can't leave. just stick around and keep stirring. Four to five minutes.
I add a tbsp of canola oil, a tbs of soy sauce to a wok. put it on high. when its hot add 1/4 of a pound of tofu, one cup broccoli and one cup mushrooms. After 4 minutes I take it off the burner and add 1 tbsp teriyaki sauce. Then a cup of cooked and warmed up rice. and add 1 tbsp of sesame seeds.

 

[bEt]

That sounds like a really good start. I just have to ask the obvious question: are you already supplementing with B12 or with a multivitamin that contains it?

You mentioned hypoglycemia. There is a thread here about diabetic sugar peaks and the OP there said that a homemade bread made from chickpea flour was helpful:

"I have found a homemade "bread" (made with two cups of chickpea flour, one cup of brown lentils, nuts, seeds, etc., and a cup of water, no fat), to be much better. No sugar spikes, even with peanut butter on it, and surprisingly nice! It is a pain to cut and toast, since there is no fat to bind it all together, it crumbles a lot."

If you can afford it, 'specialty' ingredients like chickpea flour can be ordered online. You can also make a flatbread out of soaked red lentils, as in peakvegan's recipe here:

Lentil flatbread | Vegan Forum

I'd imagine you could also add some psyllium and ground flaxseed to this for even more fiber (more filling) and even cut it in pieces like Lou's PB&J to carry along for one-bite snacks during the day if that is feasible.

If you're heading into town to pick up supplies, do you already have things like nuts, seeds, and olives on your list? In small amounts, they add interest, flavor, calories, and important fatty acids. Do you already use small amounts of flax seeds-- a tablespoon on oatmeal or a little as a binder in a bread? You can grind small amounts fresh in a coffee grinder, as needed. If your budget is tight and you can add only one seed or nut, flax is a good choice in my opinion -- not only is it cheaper than most nuts, but it also has a decent amount of an omega-3 called ALA, which is very important.

When and if you get some time to do some reading, I have found this to be a helpful resource:

Tips for New Vegans – Vegan Health

 

[Second Summer]

Welcome to the forum, Luke!

If anyone has any pointers for making black beans, red lentils, and cold oats palatable without special vegan meat substitutes or loads of simple carbs any tips would be helpful.

I have morning ritual for oatmeal - and I know you said cold oats - but I promise this is quick and a minimum of mess. Oatmeal in a cup - it's the Zen of oatmeal! It might not meet the requirements of a foodie, but I really enjoy the simplicity of it.

All you need:
1 normal (250ml) or larger cup
1 spoon or teaspoon
boiling hot water from kettle
jumbo oats (alternatively use quick oats, but they don't have as much fibre)
soya milk (fortified, but unsweetened)
banana
handful of raisins (optional)

1. Assuming normal-sized cup (250ml) - fill it up to just above half with oats
2. Mix in raisins (optional)
3. Pour boiling hot water on, fill up to just above the oats
4. Let it stew for 5 minutes or more
5. As you eat it, pour small amounts of soya milk at a time, and similarly add banana slices (can be sliced with spoon). The goal is to avoid cooling down the oatmeal too much with the soya milk, and also avoid overflowing the cup.

Sometimes I add cinnamon, sometime soya yogurt. You can of course modify this to your heart's content, there is no copyright ...!

 

[Brian W]

Welcome to the forum Luke. For me, it was practically impossible to even be vegetarian much as I kept trying. I eventually realized that it was the "giving things up" mindset that was wrong for me so no amount of trying was going to work. I decided to eat a plant based diet as far as it was enjoyable and if I had to eat animal foods from time to time, then so be it. I watched vegan videos a lot on Youtube to encourage me and after nearly a month of not trying to be vegan, I realized that I Had only eaten one omelette (easily missable) and a little yoghurt (easily replaceable) within that month. From there it was easy. I still slip at times, especially at work, but I never kick myself. Kicking yourself only weakens you.

 

[Luke]

Welcome to the forum, Luke!

I have morning ritual for oatmeal - and I know you said cold oats - but I promise this is quick and a minimum of mess. Oatmeal in a cup - it's the Zen of oatmeal! It might not meet the requirements of a foodie, but I really enjoy the simplicity of it.

All you need:
1 normal (250ml) or larger cup
1 spoon or teaspoon
boiling hot water from kettle
jumbo oats (alternatively use quick oats, but they don't have as much fibre)
soya milk (fortified, but unsweetened)
banana
handful of raisins (optional)

1. Assuming normal-sized cup (250ml) - fill it up to just above half with oats
2. Mix in raisins (optional)
3. Pour boiling hot water on, fill up to just above the oats
4. Let it stew for 5 minutes or more
5. As you eat it, pour small amounts of soya milk at a time, and similarly add banana slices (can be sliced with spoon). The goal is to avoid cooling down the oatmeal too much with the soya milk, and also avoid overflowing the cup.

Sometimes I add cinnamon, sometime soya yogurt. You can of course modify this to your heart's content, there is no copyright ...!

Oh I never get quick oats they are a little harder on the blood glucose and don't taste as good IMHO, and the reason I eat them raw has nothing to do with cook time I just like having a little chewy texture rather than boiling it to a slime. I don't recall seeing soya milk localy they do carry unsweetened almond milk which is alright, ironicly that is the only milk that I have had to drink for probably a decade or more since real milk has too much sugar and no fiber to buffer it so it is a no go. Thanks for the tip, will have to give that a try.

 

[Luke]

That sounds like a really good start. I just have to ask the obvious question: are you already supplementing with B12 or with a multivitamin that contains it?

You mentioned hypoglycemia. There is a thread here about diabetic sugar peaks and the OP there said that a homemade bread made from chickpea flour was helpful:

"I have found a homemade "bread" (made with two cups of chickpea flour, one cup of brown lentils, nuts, seeds, etc., and a cup of water, no fat), to be much better. No sugar spikes, even with peanut butter on it, and surprisingly nice! It is a pain to cut and toast, since there is no fat to bind it all together, it crumbles a lot."

If you can afford it, 'specialty' ingredients like chickpea flour can be ordered online. You can also make a flatbread out of soaked red lentils, as in peakvegan's recipe here:

Lentil flatbread | Vegan Forum

I'd imagine you could also add some psyllium and ground flaxseed to this for even more fiber (more filling) and even cut it in pieces like Lou's PB&J to carry along for one-bite snacks during the day if that is feasible.

If you're heading into town to pick up supplies, do you already have things like nuts, seeds, and olives on your list? In small amounts, they add interest, flavor, calories, and important fatty acids. Do you already use small amounts of flax seeds-- a tablespoon on oatmeal or a little as a binder in a bread? You can grind small amounts fresh in a coffee grinder, as needed. If your budget is tight and you can add only one seed or nut, flax is a good choice in my opinion -- not only is it cheaper than most nuts, but it also has a decent amount of an omega-3 called ALA, which is very important.

When and if you get some time to do some reading, I have found this to be a helpful resource:

Tips for New Vegans – Vegan Health

Yes I am already set in the B12 department and nuts/seeds have been regular purchases for many years now as they are completly safe for blood glucose levels, plenty of fiber/fat/protein buffering their modest carb content. Yeah it makes sense that chickpea flour would be better for blood glucose, chickpeas have a GI in the low 30s while wheat is in the mid 50s if I remember correctly, never seen it localy but if I can get into baking breads I will give that a try. I eat about 20 varieties of legumes and chickpeas rank up there with black beans and red lintels for sure.
I never found a good use case for flax seeds but I think I get plenty of omega-3s from the walnuts that I eat, but I know ALA to EPA/DHA conversion is far from 100% so I might need some oil if nothing else.

 

[David3]

Ground-up flax seeds are good mixed into hot oatmeal. You can't really taste a tablespoon of flax in a bowl of oats.

It's true that traditional beans-and-greens soups usually contain a certain amount of meat, or at least a soup-bone. But, there are a lot of meatless recipes online. You could try Googling vegan "caldo verde" (Portuguese soup with beans, potatoes, and kale), or vegan collard greens with beans (adapted from the traditional Southern U.S. recipe).

Here is my 6-ingredient spicy lentils-and-kale soup:

1. Dry lentils (I like the brown or green ones)
2. Kale, chopped
3. Onion, chopped/diced
4. 20 oz. can of tomato sauce, low/no salt (not spaghetti sauce, which is too sweet)
5. Soy sauce, reduced salt
6. Hot pepper sauce (Tapatio, Cholula, Tabasco, or similar)

The base of the soup is water, plus the canned tomato sauce. It cooks up pretty quickly, because the lentils require no pre-soaking, and become tender in 30 minutes or so. The soy sauce and hot pepper sauce are added to taste. Basically, it is flavored with onion, salt, soy, and chiles, instead of meat. The kale also adds strength to the soup. Mustard or collard greens can also be used.

You can also order vegan "liquid smoke" seasoning on Amazon. It's supposed to add a meaty or fishy flavor to dishes, depending on which type you buy.

 

[Lou]

what about unsweetened soy milk?
You can buy a 6 pack of 16 oz redipacs for $15. Then have it delivered.

Have you ever tried OverNight Oats? Or hemp hearts?

 

[Luke]

The second attempt and lintels and kale turned out VASTLY better, cooked 1 cup of red lintels with 1/4 cup of brown rice, strained and rinsed then cooked with a tablespoon of heavily seasoned olive oil so I could stir fry it with the kale. Added half a large red onion and a bunch of dried red peppers to the boil water so there were more seasoned throughout, only minor glitch was the rule of thumb with rice did not work out and it ended up a little under cooked whereas the lintels were perfect I blame that on this new brand of rice it seems to take a little longer. Should work out to right around 800 cal so very filling and with all that fiber I don't expect any major glucose spike despite the fact that I cannot remember a time eating that much volume of food, I would need something much larger than my little shallow 10" skillet next time I have to cook for two.

 

[Emma JC]

Oh I never get quick oats they are a little harder on the blood glucose and don't taste as good IMHO, and the reason I eat them raw has nothing to do with cook time I just like having a little chewy texture rather than boiling it to a slime. I don't recall seeing soya milk localy they do carry unsweetened almond milk which is alright, ironicly that is the only milk that I have had to drink for probably a decade or more since real milk has too much sugar and no fiber to buffer it so it is a no go. Thanks for the tip, will have to give that a try.

I don't eat my rolled oats raw however I do cook them in the microwave and so it stays chewy and not slimy. I use lots of water as I also put in soy curls crumbs and after doing the oats and crumbs for 1.5 minutes I then add the frozen berries and do for another 1.5 - 2 minutes depending on the size of the berries - then I add my ground flax, hemp hearts, banana, cinnamon, turmeric/pepper etc etc. It is almost a bit soupy still when I am done and I love that as it stays hotter longer and I love the soupy moisture as it contains all the extras I put in like greens powder, molasses etc.

Emma JC
Find your vegan soulmate or just a friend. www.spiritualmatchmaking.com

 

[Tom L.]

Welcome, @Luke !

It sounds like you already have a good handle on how to do this. You're aware of Vitamin B-12, essential fatty acids, glycemic index of foods, etc., and there are a lot of good suggestions in this thread about how to handle the issues you've mentioned. And you've found that you like many vegan foods; that will make the transition to veganism easier than it might have been otherwise.

But it's still a big change for most people- so please don't worry about making the transition to veganism gradually if you decide to go that route.

EDITED TO ADD: you mentioned that some vegan foods are not readily available where you are. I often do bulk purchases of things I eat very regularly, such as rolled oats and different kinds of dried beans. I've found a soy milk powder I like, which is both cheaper and has a longer shelf life (in a cool place) than commercially-made soy milk. I do have to watch out for pests who might want to invade my stash, such as Indian Meal Moths or mice. (That is one benefit of doing a bulk purchase of a whole, unopened bag/package of beans or oats: I've found that this is less likely to bring in any small freeloaders with your purchase). So long as you buy a small initial amount, try it, and know you will enjoy eating it often over a long period of time, a bulk order will save you time and money over the long run (especially if your vendor gives you a discount for a large purchase).

 

[KLS52]

@Emma JC lol at Starchivore. That would be me, too. The only reason I try not to go overboard is because as far as breads and other starches go, it's what I put on it that's too high calorie for me...Miyoko's butter, Tofutti cream cheese, Vegenaise.
Pasta, potatoes and rice are easy but again, I want butter or cheese and even tomato sauce on pasta is a problem because I have reflux and I can't have too many tomato based dishes. I am my own worst enemy lol.

 

[Tom L.]

The only reason I try not to go overboard is because as far as breads and other starches go, it's what I put on it that's too high calorie for me...Miyoko's butter, Tofutti cream cheese, Vegenaise......

Truth! I'd probably make those 3 things their own food group if I wasn't careful....