US To impeach or not to impeach?

[Second Summer]

If I understand correctly, an increasing number of elected representatives in the Democratic Party are in favour of impeaching the president.

Is this a good idea? What if the impeachment doesn't get anywhere - which seems like a distinct possibility with a Republicans controlled Senate, which is where a potential trial is held, and considering the current polarized political climate? Would it be better to try and defeat him in the election?

(The attached poll is public.)

 

[Andy_T]

I do not think impeaching Dump will help his enemies, mainly because Repugnican senators will protect and acquit him ... which would give him the possibility to run around claiming that his "innocence" was proven.

The Wisest Remedy Is Not Impeachment

 

[PTree15]

I do not think impeaching Dump will help his enemies, mainly because Repugnican senators will protect and acquit him ... which would give him the possibility to run around claiming that his "innocence" was proven.

The Wisest Remedy Is Not Impeachment

Exactly. He's a master at twisting "facts," so this would only help him. There aren't enough GOP senators with spines to get the votes needed to impeach him and probably even less to actually vote to remove him from office, if it got that far. So it's kind of pointless for the Dems to bother at this point. They need to focus on defeating him in the next election.

 

[silva]

Changing my mind. I want him in prison more

 

[Andy_T]

Another point to consider - will the world really be much better off with a President Pence?

That alternative is the only possible motivation for Repugnican senators to vote Dump out, and that alone should give everybody else pause...

 

[Second Summer]

Another point to consider - will the world really be much better off with a President Pence?

That alternative is the only possible motivation for Repugnican senators to vote Dump out, and that alone should give everybody else pause...

President Pence would be less likely to secure a second term, I think, due to lacking media skills. But I think impeachment is unlikely to be successful unless Democrats control both houses of Congress. Maybe it could work if they got the impeachment process started in the House of Representatives near to the next election, so if Trump was re-elected, but the Dems won control of the Senate, then they could go for it. For political strategy reasons, there is also some value in talking about impeachment without actually impeaching (yet).

 

[Andy_T]

Maybe the right moment to impeach Dump would be just before the elections...

 

[GingerFoxx]

Last week's episode, relevant to this topic.

 

[Mischief]

Last week's episode, relevant to this topic.

John Oliver, as always, sets it out well.

I'm still not sure that it wouldn't help trump, and a second trump term would be an extraordinarily high price to pay for the principle.

 

[Second Summer]

Considering the requirement for a super majority (2/3) in the Senate to actually convict at the end of impeachment proceedings, it seems unlikely that the impeachment process itself would succeed in removing 'Individual 1' from office. Also, at this point apparently the majority of the electorate isn't on board with impeachment. On the other hand, perhaps the electorate would change its mind once impeachment proceedings got started?

 

[Second Summer]

What do you think now? The Dems have started the process. I suppose with the latest revelations they were pretty much forced to try for impeachment?

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/as-i...ms-stakes-are-high-for-the-president-11819307

(25. Sept. 2019)

 

[peacefulveglady]

What do you think now? The Dems have started the process. I suppose with the latest revelations they were pretty much forced to try for impeachment?

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/as-i...ms-stakes-are-high-for-the-president-11819307

(25. Sept. 2019)

Why now? Elections next year vote him out instead of impeachment.

 

[Jamie in Chile]

[EDIT 27 September: I read some more of the details as the case and I am no longer sure if my comment is fair. It may be more serious than I thought. I should have read more of the details of the case before posting. I am leaving the comment as originally written except fixing a spelling error and a missed full stop I noticed. However I am underlying the parts of this comment that I am no longer confident in. So, the parts I have underlined I am not saying I totally retract these or now have the opposite opinion, but that I have lost confidence in whether or not these statements are correct.]

I think this is a mistake because it won't work and it just looks like party politics damaging the Democrats. It also creates an increased precedent for impeachment that increases the chance Republicans will impeach a Democratic President later.

I think Trump has done about 10 or 20 things which, collated together, are enough to warrant impeachment and indeed removal from office.

But I don't think that's how it works. There needs to be the one killer thing. And so far there isn't and I don't think the Biden thing is either.

Only a small fraction of the electorate, mostly liberals and Democrats, will see this Biden thing as very serious. [EDIT 27th September: This comment has arguably been disproved already by recent opinions polls since I posted this showing an uptick of support for impeachment.]

Also impeachment, even if successful, would create a divide in American society that might make things worse than defeating him an election.

Still, I'd be up for impeachment if it had a good chance of actually removing him.

 

[silva]

I think this is a mistake because it won't work and it just looks like party politics damaging the Democrats. It also creates an increased precedent for impeachment that increases the chance Republicans will impeach a Democratic President later.

I think Trump has done about 10 or 20 things which, collated together, are enough to warrant impeachment and indeed removal from office. But I don't think that's how it works. There needs to be the one killer things And so far there isn't and I don't think the Biden thing is either.

Only a small fraction of the electorate, mostly liberals and Democrats, will see this Biden thing as very serious.

Also impeachment, even if successful, would create a divide in American society that might make things worse than defeating him an election.

Still, I'd be up for impeachment if it had a good chance of actually removing him.

He held funding hostage for favors, and broke (again) the emoluments cause.
Divide the nation? We are divided. The rump team are nationalists and gulliables that are willing to bet on a mobster to protect them just as long as they can hold on to their dreams. He belongs in prison.
Precedent? Have you forgotten Bill Clintons impeachment? This is as bad or worse than Watergate.
The democrats need to quit being nice and start taking this seriously, or their will be no more parties at all

 

[Andy_T]

When, if not now?

Changing my vote to "It's f***ing time" ...

 

[beancounter]

If the Democrats truly have something on Trump that he can't wiggle out of, or have Moscow Mitch play defense for him, I'd say they should go for it.

However, if all they have is he said/she said evidence like with Kavanaugh, they are going to end up looking weak and ineffectual...again. And that could hurt them in 2020.

Yes, going ahead with impeachment will please their hardcore base, but it's not the hardcore base (by itself) that wins elections.

 

[Second Summer]

When, if not now?

That was my thought, as well. Yes, the Dems don't control 2/3 of the Senate, which is the number they would need to convict "individual #1" in an impeachment trial, but let's face it, they're not going to be controlling 2/3 of the Senate any time soon.

What they have now seems to be pretty clear evidence of criminal wrongdoing, and therefore it is their duty, legally and ethically, to follow up on that the only way they can - through impeachment. If they don't get anywhere with it in the Senate because of the moral bankruptcy of the Senate Republicans, then they simply need to explain this to the voters. If they do their job properly, not only will they defeat Trump in the presidential election, but also replace several Republican senators.

 

[GingerFoxx]

Why now? Elections next year vote him out instead of impeachment.

Because if he is breaking laws, he needs to be prosecuted, same as anyone else. Plus if he is found guilty, he has no business remaining in charge of the country. If these proceedings are not followed through legal channels to a conclusion, he could skirt the law and remain in office. Think of the example that sets for our justice system and our democracy.

 

[peacefulveglady]

Because if he is breaking laws, he needs to be prosecuted, same as anyone else. Plus if he is found guilty, he has no business remaining in charge of the country. If these proceedings are not followed through legal channels to a conclusion, he could skirt the law and remain in office. Think of the example that sets for our justice system and our democracy.

Yes true just at first I thought it was crazy a year before elections.

 

[GingerFoxx]

Yes true just at first I thought it was crazy a year before elections.

Yeah, if the only concern was just taking him out of a position of power, that would be one thing. This is about the possible criminality of the actions themselves though that lead to this point. The timing is a bit awkward, to be sure. In fact, many Congressmen were expressing reluctance over moving forward, given how these proceedings could sway the voters and impact the outcome of not just the presidential election, but also the seats in congress and who ends up holding the majority when the dust settles. Most of those folks have come around though, realizing the bigger picture of not letting this behavior go unpunished is more important to our fundamental values as a country.