That was my neighbor...

TofuRobot

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I was looking up @Forest Nymph 's quote (in her signature), which led me down a path that landed me on the Peter Singer Wikipedia page (down the proverbial rabbit hole), where I read the words "love thy neighbor as thyself" and it struck me - how to respond to the question, should someone ask, "Why does it bother you what other people eat?" or, "Why does it bother you that I am eating [chicken/fish/fowl]?" and the answer is simple, "Because that [cow/chicken/pig/fish/...] was my neighbor. That was our neighbor. And you made a decision with little to no thought to take their life and place a part of his body on a plate to eat, when it was wholly unnecessary. He/she had his entire life ahead of him/her, and now it's gone. And you casually chew on his muscles and drink his blood as though his life had no meaning. That is why I am sad. That is why I am uncomfortable. I simply do not understand how a brief, fleeting sensation on the tongue can have more meaning, more value to you (who is also my neighbor), than the life of a neighbor; than the life of our neighbor. Our neighbor who did you no harm."

And then somewhere further down on the page I read the word "Palestinians." 😂

Anyway, there was something about the word "neighbor" that struck me. I think I will use that the next time I'm questioned about why I'm vegan. I am not religious, but most people are... Maybe I'm on to something.

Or, it's late and I need to be focusing on my own homework. 🤣 Anyway... Peace out <3
 

Vanille

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Most people are religious... First of all, that's wrong (unless you live in Saudi Arabia or something, majority in Europe is atheist) secondly, religion is the root of all evil, it's the reason people are STILL sexist, racist, homophobic, rape apologists and view animals as objects... I heard enough people use the Bible to defend the concept of eating meat... Sickening book, should burn it, in hell...
 
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TofuRobot

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Most people are religious... First of all, that's wrong (unless you live in Saudi Arabia or something, majority in Europe is atheist) secondly, religion is the root of all evil, it's the reason people are STILL sexist, racist, homophobic, rape apologists and view animals as objects... I heard enough people use the Bible to defend the concept of eating meat... Sickening book, should burn it, in hell...
Sorry, Vanille - I should have said "most people are Christian." That is the case where I live. Many of my Christian friends don't proclaim to be "religious" per se. The point was that they understand the phrase, or the quote from the Bible, "Love thy neighbor as thyself."
 

Forest Nymph

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Most people are religious... First of all, that's wrong (unless you live in Saudi Arabia or something, majority in Europe is atheist) secondly, religion is the root of all evil, it's the reason people are STILL sexist, racist, homophobic, rape apologists and view animals as objects... I heard enough people use the Bible to defend the concept of eating meat... Sickening book, should burn it, in hell...

But people also use religion rightly to defend anti-racism, anti-sexism, acceptance of homosexuals, rejection of rape, and love of animals. It's actually very easy to make an animal rights argument from the Bible due to Eden and the Fall of Man, and Noah's Ark, and Daniel's men eating nothing but veggies, and the future paradise in Isaiah, and then if you did into history, about historical Jesus being vegetarian and the Dead Sea Scrolls containing the Books of Enoch saying demons taught humans to eat animals. 7th Day Adventists are about half vegetarian and vegan due to this, and Krishna Consciousness has mandatory Lacto-Vegetarianism as a tenet. About half of Buddhists are vegetarian, and the majority of Hindus are vegetarian. The earliest vegans were Jains, and the earliest vegetarians were followers of other religions including early Christianity. The sect of Judaism historical Jesus was said to belong to was near-vegan.

I think you've been grossly misinformed by the way cultish religion particularly in the United States, which as a culture actually glorifies cults as freedom of religion, that all religion leads to rape and sexism and eating of animals. Catholics are still known for their reticence from gluttony by refusing animal products on certain holidays, and in Laudato Si, Pope Francis spoke about the earth as our sister and the animals as our brothers.

Certainly there's problems with religion, but tarring all religion with one brush makes you exactly like they are.
 
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rogerjolly

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I am not religious, but most people are...


New recruits to her majesty’s armed forces are being processed:

“Religion?”
“Church of England. Sir.”
“Right C of E then. NEXT."

“Religion?”
“I’m Jewish. Sir.”
“Right. J then. NEXT.”

“Religion?”
“I’m catholic. Sir.”
“Right. RC then. NEXT.”

“Religion?”
“I’m an atheist. Sir.”
“Right. C of E then. NEXT.”

Roger.
 

Forest Nymph

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Nvm, gotta stop oversharing, but **** religion, all of them...

If you blame human cruelty on religion you're in for a very rude awakening. I'm sorry if religious people have hurt you, but genocide has been committed by athiests. Athiests also rape, murder and bully people and make excuses to eat meat.
 

Vanille

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If you blame human cruelty on religion you're in for a very rude awakening. I'm sorry if religious people have hurt you, but genocide has been committed by athiests. Athiests also rape, murder and bully people and make excuses to eat meat.
*traumatized

Religion was created by bad people, bad people use it as excuse to do bad things. Sadly, many are brainwashed too into thinking certain things BECAUSE OF RELIGION. Banning it would, for sure, cause a decrease in crimes, wars and discrimination (based on race, sex, species and romantic orientation)
Spirituality and beliefs =/= religion, keep that in mind. I'm not even a true atheist myself, being an astrologer and believing in souls...

You believe in a God/afterlife/magic? Fine! Awesome!
You are sexist/homophobic based on an old book? Stay away from me
 

Forest Nymph

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*traumatized

Religion was created by bad people, bad people use it as excuse to do bad things. Sadly, many are brainwashed too into thinking certain things BECAUSE OF RELIGION. Banning it would, for sure, cause a decrease in crimes, wars and discrimination (based on race, sex, species and romantic orientation)
Spirituality and beliefs =/= religion, keep that in mind. I'm not even a true atheist myself, being an astrologer and believing in souls...

You believe in a God/afterlife/magic? Fine! Awesome!
You are sexist/homophobic based on an old book? Stay away from me

Capitalism was also created by bad people and bad people use it as an excuse to do bad things. Sadly, many are brainwashed too because of capitalism. Banning capitalism for sure would decrease crimes, wars and discrimination.

And unlike banning religion, banning capitalism might actually slow or reverse climate change.
 

Vanille

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Capitalism was also created by bad people and bad people use it as an excuse to do bad things. Sadly, many are brainwashed too because of capitalism. Banning capitalism for sure would decrease crimes, wars and discrimination.

And unlike banning religion, banning capitalism might actually slow or reverse climate change.
Yeah and who said I'm not against capitalism too?

Climate change will happen, it's normal, wether we influence it can be debated... I do believe in living "greener" however, to make/keep the world clean (the air we breathe, habitats of wild animals)
 

Forest Nymph

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Yeah and who said I'm not against capitalism too?

Climate change will happen, it's normal, wether we influence it can be debated... I do believe in living "greener" however, to make/keep the world clean (the air we breathe, habitats of wild animals)

No it can't be debated. Your Bible belt is showing.

While organized religion can certainly be used for destructive purposes, there is no human ideology other than old fashioned godless capitalism that is quite literally destroying the planet. This isn't a "too" thing. Capitalism is worse than organized religion.

And you my dear need a science class.
 

Vanille

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No it can't be debated. Your Bible belt is showing.

While organized religion can certainly be used for destructive purposes, there is no human ideology other than old fashioned godless capitalism that is quite literally destroying the planet. This isn't a "too" thing. Capitalism is worse than organized religion.

And you my dear need a science class.
Yes it can, everything can be debated.

Capitalism made us wealthy, us Europeans. It has many flaws however that hurt innocent people, hence why I wish we'd consider socialism. But religion has hurt innocent people for centuries, all over the world. The only ones who never got hurt are white straight males... (and not trying to be SJW here, enough amazing white straight males in the world who respect women and animals) Again, religion is a system created by men, ages ago, to hurt and control others... There's no proof of the Bible telling the truth other than the book itself, and people actually believe it, when they never met the writers at all + many verses got lost or were mistranslated... Crazy how many people still live by it, and why? Because they were brainwashed and that comes with fear of using their own damn brains...

If you believe in a God and want to make him/her proud, just be a good person, shouldn't be too hard... Unless you're a psychopath.
 

Forest Nymph

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Yes it can, everything can be debated.

Capitalism made us wealthy, us Europeans. It has many flaws however that hurt innocent people, hence why I wish we'd consider socialism. But religion has hurt innocent people for centuries, all over the world. The only ones who never got hurt are white straight males... (and not trying to be SJW here, enough amazing white straight males in the world who respect women and animals) Again, religion is a system created by men, ages ago, to hurt and control others... There's no proof of the Bible telling the truth other than the book itself, and people actually believe it, when they never met the writers at all + many verses got lost or were mistranslated... Crazy how many people still live by it, and why? Because they were brainwashed and that comes with fear of using their own damn brains...

If you believe in a God and want to make him/her proud, just be a good person, shouldn't be too hard... Unless you're a psychopath.

Look, I understand that you're traumatized by religion, and I'm sorry that happened to you - but what is HILARIOUS is that you are actually brainwashed so much by your religious surroundings (although you say you aren't one of them) ...you actually believe climate change is debatable.

You are not qualified to "debate" climate change. You don't even understand the difference between natural climate change (which happens gradually over millions of years) and Anthropogenic climate change and the sixth mass extinction. I have an environmental science degree. Your ignorance is appalling and I will not tolerate it in any further discussions.

As for religion hurting people for centuries, religion doesn't have the underlying framework of "conquer, use, and destroy." Capitalism, factually, is unsustainable. Capitalism's very existence means that it keeps growing. Capitalism cannot keep growing on a finite planet, hence the planet is dying. It is only due to capitalism that fossil fuels are continuing to be used, that mass animal agriculture continues to exist. It's not because of religion, and it's not due to a lack of alternatives or a lack of scientific understanding. It's capitalism. Capitalism is a DISEASE.

Religion might hurt individual people but it won't drive the human race extinct. Capitalism can and will if we don't stop it. I'm not advocating for socialism or any other particular way of being, but capitalism is inherently destroying the planet.
 

Vanille

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Look, I understand that you're traumatized by religion, and I'm sorry that happened to you - but what is HILARIOUS is that you are actually brainwashed so much by your religious surroundings (although you say you aren't one of them) ...you actually believe climate change is debatable.

You are not qualified to "debate" climate change. You don't even understand the difference between natural climate change (which happens gradually over millions of years) and Anthropogenic climate change and the sixth mass extinction. I have an environmental science degree. Your ignorance is appalling and I will not tolerate it in any further discussions.

As for religion hurting people for centuries, religion doesn't have the underlying framework of "conquer, use, and destroy." Capitalism, factually, is unsustainable. Capitalism's very existence means that it keeps growing. Capitalism cannot keep growing on a finite planet, hence the planet is dying. It is only due to capitalism that fossil fuels are continuing to be used, that mass animal agriculture continues to exist. It's not because of religion, and it's not due to a lack of alternatives or a lack of scientific understanding. It's capitalism. Capitalism is a DISEASE.

Religion might hurt individual people but it won't drive the human race extinct. Capitalism can and will if we don't stop it. I'm not advocating for socialism or any other particular way of being, but capitalism is inherently destroying the planet.
There's people who don't believe in climate change because of us humans who come with pretty good points you may've never even considered because "I have a degree so I know it all", and not all of these people are religious, I know diehard atheists who think it's all bs...

You're the first person in 21 years comparing me to Christians... Now THAT is hilarious. Every topic is debatable, it's how we learn from each other and can improve as a species... Do you even realize how many scientists (in general) changed their theories drastically after finding more reliable evidence... Heck, people used to think fish can't feel... Untill pretty recently...

Religion and capitalism are actually linked... Maybe consider studying sociology and psychology, you'll see what I mean... Both are invented for power and control purposes...

Look, I'm an astrologer (and spiritual, after several psychic experiences) and take it as seriously as you may take your God, except astrology has scientific evidence to an extend... My sun (ego) makes me able to see things from all perspectives. Hence why, I consider any topic debatable... But Mercury makes me very stubborn and judgemental too, if the other perspective is immoral (to me) or lacks evidence... I will never ignore real evidence, don't get me wrong there. But clearly the evidence for climate change caused by humans isn't strong enough when so many people, even some scientists question it... I think we should live greener to prevent (more) pollution and ruining the habitats of wild animals, which may also cause climate change (so we need to live greener either way, discussion closed)

Doing something with good intentions is what counts, not the exact goal you have in mind. You can do the same thing with a different view and goal, as long as the results are positive.
 
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HappyRoxy

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But people also use religion rightly to defend anti-racism, anti-sexism, acceptance of homosexuals, rejection of rape, and love of animals. It's actually very easy to make an animal rights argument from the Bible due to Eden and the Fall of Man, and Noah's Ark, and Daniel's men eating nothing but veggies, and the future paradise in Isaiah, and then if you did into history, about historical Jesus being vegetarian and the Dead Sea Scrolls containing the Books of Enoch saying demons taught humans to eat animals. 7th Day Adventists are about half vegetarian and vegan due to this, and Krishna Consciousness has mandatory Lacto-Vegetarianism as a tenet. About half of Buddhists are vegetarian, and the majority of Hindus are vegetarian. The earliest vegans were Jains, and the earliest vegetarians were followers of other religions including early Christianity. The sect of Judaism historical Jesus was said to belong to was near-vegan.

I think you've been grossly misinformed by the way cultish religion particularly in the United States, which as a culture actually glorifies cults as freedom of religion, that all religion leads to rape and sexism and eating of animals. Catholics are still known for their reticence from gluttony by refusing animal products on certain holidays, and in Laudato Si, Pope Francis spoke about the earth as our sister and the animals as our brothers.

Certainly there's problems with religion, but tarring all religion with one brush makes you exactly like they are.
Well said.

I also like TofuRobot's way of looking at animals as "our neighbour".
 

Forest Nymph

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There's people who don't believe in climate change because of us humans who come with pretty good points you may've never even considered because "I have a degree so I know it all", and not all of these people are religious, I know diehard atheists who think it's all bs...

You're the first person in 21 years comparing me to Christians... Now THAT is hilarious. Every topic is debatable, it's how we learn from each other and can improve as a species... Do you even realize how many scientists (in general) changed their theories drastically after finding more reliable evidence... Heck, people used to think fish can't feel... Untill pretty recently...

Religion and capitalism are actually linked... Maybe consider studying sociology and psychology, you'll see what I mean... Both are invented for power and control purposes...

Look, I'm an astrologer (and spiritual, after several psychic experiences) and take it as seriously as you may take your God, except astrology has scientific evidence to an extend... My sun (ego) makes me able to see things from all perspectives. Hence why, I consider any topic debatable... But Mercury makes me very stubborn and judgemental too, if the other perspective is immoral (to me) or lacks evidence... I will never ignore real evidence, don't get me wrong there. But clearly the evidence for climate change caused by humans isn't strong enough when so many people, even some scientists question it... I think we should live greener to prevent (more) pollution and ruining the habitats of wild animals, which may also cause climate change (so we need to live greener either way, discussion closed)

Doing something with good intentions is what counts, not the exact goal you have in mind. You can do the same thing with a different view and goal, as long as the results are positive.

No religion and capitalism are not linked. There are plenty of Buddhists and Hindus who aren't capitalists.

Also, you are a deeply ignorant person who thinks about science like a religious wacko, and you need to be confronted about this HEAD ON. The only atheists who deny climate science are insane conspiracy theorists ...and people who lack a scientific education, like yourself.

I used to talk to people like you, and nope, it's not about phrasing things more nicely or allowing you to say your piece. If anything, giving you the space to further your delusion that climate science is up for debate just makes people like you worse.

I don't have the patience for this arrogance and stupidity. Do you deny gravity? Do you think the earth is flat? Do you think you can perform brain surgery without a degree? No? Then why do you suddenly think you're an expert on what causes climate change just because you went to high school in the Bible belt.

I'm thinking about just putting you on ignore. I do not suffer fools gladly.
 

Vanille

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No religion and capitalism are not linked. There are plenty of Buddhists and Hindus who aren't capitalists.

Also, you are a deeply ignorant person who thinks about science like a religious wacko, and you need to be confronted about this HEAD ON. The only atheists who deny climate science are insane conspiracy theorists ...and people who lack a scientific education, like yourself.

I used to talk to people like you, and nope, it's not about phrasing things more nicely or allowing you to say your piece. If anything, giving you the space to further your delusion that climate science is up for debate just makes people like you worse.

I don't have the patience for this arrogance and stupidity. Do you deny gravity? Do you think the earth is flat? Do you think you can perform brain surgery without a degree? No? Then why do you suddenly think you're an expert on what causes climate change just because you went to high school in the Bible belt.

I'm thinking about just putting you on ignore. I do not suffer fools gladly.
Not ALL religious people are capitalist, but religion in itself is invented with the same goals: power and control. I took many sociology, psychology and history classes and studied those in my freetime too, THERE IS A PATTERN, WE SHOULD NOT IGNORE IT IF WE EVER WANT A BETTER WORLD.

Up for debate =/= denying it. I never denied it... Debate means we can talk about, hear the other perspective (and if it's bs, try to prove them wrong). Also ONLY my ELEMENTARY SCHOOL was Christian. In highschool they did talk about climate change a lot actually... But after hearing so much bs in my early childhood, I don't believe everything blindly (they said dinosaurs aren't real lol hellooo I saw the bones with my own eyes) Some leftist parties here were exposed for altering information regarding climate change to their benefit. That's a valid point for me to stay a little skeptical, it's not just an internet conspiracy. I never even considered taking THOSE seriously tho they're entertaining.

You call me arrogant but after years of being on different forums, you're the most arrogant person I met, you disgust me.
 

Vanille

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@Forest Nymph I literally just debated my parents about it, me DEFENDING CLIMATE CHANGE BEIMG CAUSED BY US, so... Calm your tits sis.